This is what's bothering me!
IOTL we already knew that Will Smith could act because of his performance in Fresh Prince, ITTL people don't know that yet.
A Hippie in the House of Mouse (Jim Henson at Disney, 1980)
- Thread starter Geekhis Khan
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IOTL we already knew that Will Smith could act because of his performance in Fresh Prince, ITTL people don't know that yet.
It's very likely that in an ironic twist to OTL, the refurbished Carousel of Progress is going to go all-in on the historical angle and look back to the 1880s-1960s due to it being themed to reflect Tomorrowland 1955, with the last section being towards the future as Walt envisioned back in the day.
The speculation about the future (and specifically our future, instead of CoP being viewed from Walt's view) will be something that Horizons will embody, being widely accepted as the spiritual successor to the Carousel of Progress anyways. Expect the pavilion to receive a big change in the future to reflect the modern times.
Eisner's deal with Bass Bros. fell through (thank goodness!) but it's clear that he has a lot of things cooking up as he looks towards greater things. A job at Universal is interesting (an Eisner Universal could actually work and would elevate the Disney vs. Universal rivalry to new heights just like OTL), but we'll see if that's going to be a thing.
I'm not surprised that Katzenberg and Eisner's partnership is starting to crack given their abrasiveness and egos, but I do feel a bit sad that a collaboration with Katzenberg and Bluth might not materialize in the case that Hollywood Pictures does implode. Now I can't really predict where Eisner and the others are going to go in the future, but I can't wait to see what happens...
Aside from that, it makes sense for Eisner to cash into the dark age of comics and start adapting comics like Miracleman and The Crow. I'm not surprised if he does take another comic like Men in Black as a more serious adaptation, but I'm actually more interested in the scenario where Eisner takes Kamen Rider for himself (now even more realistic with this post) from Disney and turns it into something really special.
The death was due to an accident, so it's likely that under different circumstances that he could've survived with better handled props, such as the dummy ammunition. I'm not entirely sure why Raimi would not choose Brandon Lee for the film, but I don't really mind if he gets replaced by someone else or if it remains the same as OTL.
Won't be surprised in MiB ended up being adapted for the big screen somehow. I do like the idea of Columbia taking it if Hollywood Pictures does not end up acquiring the rights to it.
Yeah, Will Smith might actually stay as a rapper instead the multimedia star that we know of today without Fresh Prince, which is actually crazy to think about, given how much of a icon he is OTL.
Ice Cube's been acting for a while, they could go with him.
It's either a day or cleaning graves and remembrance or just part of a three day weekend.
Looking forward to hearing more about what the film does with it.
I've seen videos of the Carousel of Progress, and I too would suggest keeping the early historical start.
ABC having a real late night talk show called Up Late with Name of Host is my favourite allohistorical allusion yet.
To be fair to Eisner, he's not wrong, which is why the OTL movies are very different from the comics they're supposedly based on.
Regarding who might play Agent J in the absence of Will Smith, the Men in Black wiki says that Chris O'Donnell and David Schwimmer were in the running OTL.
meninblack.fandom.com
To be fair to Eisner, he's not wrong, which is why the OTL movies are very different from the comics they're supposedly based on.
Regarding who might play Agent J in the absence of Will Smith, the Men in Black wiki says that Chris O'Donnell and David Schwimmer were in the running OTL.
Agent J
For the comic book character, see Agent J (comics). Agent J (usually called Jay), originally James Darrell Edwards III, was one of the two protagonists of the Men in Black film series. Agent J was an agent of the MiB, after being recruited by Agent K. He is energetic and attempts to bring life...
meninblack.fandom.com
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If Disney takes part in the renovation of TImes Square I like the idea of the hotel they build evoking the legacy of famous New York hotels that no longer grace the skyline. Disney could also build an attraction that serves as a fun trip into the history of the Big Apple as well as possibly becoming involved in the proposed rebuilding of Steeplechase Park as a way of convincing the city government about their Time Square renovation plan.Eh, I doubt it if Disney only renovates the theater. Maybe it would be possible if the Disney Times Square Hotel was a reality, since it would have the facilities to keep the costumes and the staff there.
I also found some articles that detailed the renovation of Times Square and the failed DVC resorts, which were quite interesting reads:
Disney Wished Upon Times Sq. And Rescued a Stalled Dream (Published 1998)
Times Square in less than five years has been transformed from lifeless area to arguably most sought-after 13 acres of commercial property in world; how pieces came together with such speed after languishing for over 15 years is story that has as much to do with chance and perception as it does...www.nytimes.com
Yesterland: Four More Disney Vacation Clubs That Might Have Been
www.yesterland.com
That could be one of the reasons, besides the overall expense of the project, that WestCOT was ultimately scrapped in OTL.
It'd be really funny if the film makes jokes like that that unintentionally paint the film as being pro-LGBT. Like the movie gets an LGBT following because the tone of the jokes makes it seem like it's supporting them.
And now I'm imagining a Disney competitor having a ride that's a satirical take on the cliche "house of tomorrow" ride where the retro-futuristic "house of tomorrow" goes disastrously wrong for the hapless people on the ride. Either it could be a silly version where the automated house runs amok or a black comedy horror version where the automated house's amenities go completely Skynet and start bloodily murdering the visitors. Like scenes of horror made humorous by the now very ironic cheerful ride narration playing over them.
Good question.
I think @Geekhis Khan originally wanted to make a famous British actor Doctor Nr. 9, but since the Doctor Who posts kinda derailed the thread he elected to instead have the series end like OTL.
Which ironically made everyone go back on their outrage and practically beg him to continue his original plan.
However, I don't know if he changed his mind again.
Personally I wouldn't mind, but I don't have any nostalgia for DW😅
I am surprised Katzenberg did not walk over that insult- I am sure he could walk into a decent job in several places.
Did Esiner but Eclipse and Calibur comics to get Miracleman and The Crow? If so there is a good chance both companies might survive any 90's comics crisis. Heck even inde incoming movie money might see them survive.
Tom Hanks doing not-Groundhog Day? Could work guess it depends on how good the script for Memorial Day is I guess.
Good luck Mr Leno, seems you have an audience though.
Seems Miramax is the dumping ground for all those dumb movies that clogged up the VHS shelves at the local Blockbuster without ever being taken out- the high school dramas, murder 'mysteries', and cheap horror shlock.
Wonder if Eisner has heard the phrase 'Be careful who you stand on, on your way up, as you will meet them on the way down.' - seems Mr Eisner has quite shaky foundations for his empire indeed.
Good chapter.
Did Esiner but Eclipse and Calibur comics to get Miracleman and The Crow? If so there is a good chance both companies might survive any 90's comics crisis. Heck even inde incoming movie money might see them survive.
Tom Hanks doing not-Groundhog Day? Could work guess it depends on how good the script for Memorial Day is I guess.
Good luck Mr Leno, seems you have an audience though.
Seems Miramax is the dumping ground for all those dumb movies that clogged up the VHS shelves at the local Blockbuster without ever being taken out- the high school dramas, murder 'mysteries', and cheap horror shlock.
Wonder if Eisner has heard the phrase 'Be careful who you stand on, on your way up, as you will meet them on the way down.' - seems Mr Eisner has quite shaky foundations for his empire indeed.
Good chapter.
AlsoI forgot to mention that Peter Weir doing Goundhog/Memorial Day intrigues me because of Truman Show, one of my all time favourite movies, so I can't wait to see how it goes.
No David Letterman, who while he might not have the wide appeal of Leno will probably still become a successful host.
A thought occurs to me, but if Will Smith got a guest star/cameo on Family Matters and/or A Different World that lead to another guest star and/or co-star on another sitcom. In fact if we can prevent Redd Foxx's death Will Smith could maybe make his acting debut on The Royal Family as the stars youngest son who's in a local college.
The Royal Family (TV series) - Wikipedia
Or about a reporter reporting on the local Memorial Day festivities.
This is probably the most we'll get on this.
No, he just licensed their IPs film rights.
David Letterman like Johnny Carson originally wanted. I don't think Jon Stewart is know will enough to get The Tonight Show at this time.
Have you ever seen the original TV series? The film seems close enough to the source material. Plus Deadlands has far more horror material than any version of Wild, Wild West.
Technically Disney did not need to participate in Steeplechase Park in order to help renovate Times Square IIRC (the one thing that got the ball rolling was them renovating the New Amsterdam Theater) but it could be possible since Disney is arguably far more generous ITTL. As for the hotel, the design of it resembling an old New York hotel is an interesting idea, since the scale of the building might make it standout over its older counterparts despite having similar architecture. Not entirely sure that the hotel/entertainment complex would have rides but I won't be surprised if there were tidbits of old New York history and culture spread throughout the building.
No, WestCOT was different from original EPCOT, being a reflection of the current EPCOT center in WDW. In fact, you could say that WestCOT was an improvement over the original with its streamlined integration of both World Showcase and Future World in a compact space.
I reckon it would be Universal that would make that ride as a spoof on the overly optimistic Tomorrowland 1955, but maybe that's something for their Halloween events. We have haunted houses....but what about haunted houses in the future?
Doctor Who is still alive, but in an animated series format after the severe backlash of the 8th Doctor, with the 9th Doctor coming up later on (like 1993?). Although, we don't exactly know when a live action revival will return to DW, but at least it will come back to the Brits eventually....
A Hippie in the House of Mouse (Jim Henson at Disney, 1980)
Well, maybe afterwards, like 1994. It's certainly possible (much higher chance than OTL, I'd say), but I wonder if MGM still produces/distributes this film while under Disney or if it's under a new company. It would be easier for Spielberg to direct a Bond film (maybe with Ralph Fiennes) with...
www.alternatehistory.com
Maybe that's possible, but I'll wait for Geekhis to chime in on the topic.
Finally binged through this entire time line. Such great work, and it really makes me wish I was in that other time line with all the movie differences, especially this Aladdin.
Though I definitely am wondering if Shanghai Animation Film Studio is getting in on this Lotus Plan action too. Probably a good idea to send feelers to Disney given their own puppet departments and the onslaught of foreign animation leaving their traditional stuff in the dust.
Though I definitely am wondering if Shanghai Animation Film Studio is getting in on this Lotus Plan action too. Probably a good idea to send feelers to Disney given their own puppet departments and the onslaught of foreign animation leaving their traditional stuff in the dust.
Comics II: Peak Darkness
Part IV: Darkness Rising (Cont’d)
From Pow! An Illustrated History of American Comics from the Victorian to the Modern
By the early 1990s the Dark Age of Comics, for those who recognize it, was in full effect[1]. It was the era where Venom got his own print while Aunt May died, where Superman would pursue a revenge quest following the near-death of Lois Lane, Hellspawn would launch, and gun-toting, casually-violent antiheroes would take center stage away from the Caped Crusaders. And best of all it’s the era when everyone’s favorite Mouthy Merc would appear, forever making comics a better place for everyone.
Like comic’s awkward adolescence, it was a period ironically marked both by more adult themes, and by more juvenile fantasies. We’d see many of the favorite old school characters like Peter Parker retire while Eddie Brock would go on literal rampages. Antiheroes began to get more overtly hypermasculine and violent, even as the trend towards such musclebound killers was fading away in films. The more mature themes of the Bronze Age evolved into more overt pushing-the-limits on sex, drugs, and graphic violence. And it was really freakin’ funny and awesome. Especially when you-know-who did it.
It was also the era of the Comic Book Speculator’s Market, which saw the hoarding of comic books and the creation of numerous “event comics” to capitalize upon it. Numerous fans bought numerous copies of comics and filed them away, hoping for them to gain value over time, which might actually have happened if everyone else wasn’t doing the exact same thing. It was the era where less scrupulous producers even used limited print runs and forced scarcity to create demand the magnificent bastards. Ironically, it was these more manipulative forced scarcity efforts that actually managed to produce works which could grow in value over time, though not to the degree that their keepers hoped.
In many respects the Dark Age, or early Iron Age if you prefer, I thought you said it was the Bakelite age? was a natural evolution of the Bronze Age, continuing to explore more mature themes and pursue more adult audiences in the absence of the Comics Code. It experimented not just with more controversial subjects, but also explored new art styles, new technologies like digital inking and coloring, and new storytelling techniques. Don’t forget fourth wall breaks! This led to a strange juxtaposition where the same comics lines could feature deep explorations of the philosophy of crime and punishment…and then turn into a gratuitous splatter-fest.
Dark Horse Comics came into its own in this era, distributing not just movie-based lines like Alien vs. Predator, but distributing indie artists like J. O’Barr, whose goth-inspired The Crow would feature in his own film, directed by Sam Raimi. Frank Miller’s Sin City and The 300 would debut, as would the insane Doug Mahnke series The Mask and the punkish Jamie Hewlett and Alan Martin comic Tank Girl, both of which also became movies later in the decade. But it would be Mike Mignola’s Hellboy who would have the most lasting impact, appearing in 1993 and redefining what a superhero could be. Mignola, Hewlett, Miller, and O’Barr also broke new ground artistically, each having an unmistakable signature art style that stood out in a world defined by classic DC and Marvel stylings.
The UK comics magazine 2000 AD continued to expand the Judge Dredd character, featuring the popular “The Dead Man” storyline, which saw the titular Judge coming to terms with mortality and beginning to question his purpose. They expanded with strips like Firekind and Sinister Dexter[2]. 1993 also saw the “Summer Offensive” where comics writers including Grant Morrison and Mark Millar were given free rein to write whatever they wanted, resulting in some truly insane works like “Big Dave” and “Slaughterbowl” where convicts ride dinosaurs into battle against each other.
But, needless to say, it was the “big boys”, Marvel and DC, who made the biggest impact on the Age.
DC, post-crisis and under the increasing supervision of their bosses at Warner Brothers, was having a crisis of identity itself. Writers like Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman, and Grant Morrison were adding depth and darkness, with Morrison’s take on Batman following on from Frank Miller’s earlier dark, gothic take exemplified in The Dark Knight Returns. Morrison’s turn on Batman became very popular and a source of inspiration for other dark vigilante characters of the age, and given the success of the Raimi Batman films and the Bird Brain Batman animated series, Morrison was at first given a lot of leeway to continue this darker tone, not just with Bats, but with the whole of the Justice League, rebranded as the “JLA”. This would reverse itself when that asshole John Peters became an executive in 1994 and along with prick producer Tom Rothman pushed for more “toyetic” work even as they simultaneously pushed for more of the “dark, grown-up stuff the nerds like”.
Like this, but the other way around! (Image source Screen Rant)
Superman would be the ultimate victim of this schizophrenia, and rumor has it that they almost killed him off. But they didn’t, the cowards! Instead, Sups entered the decade with the promise of good times ahead, proposing to Lois Lane and becoming engaged, outwardly as Clark Kent. Clark and Lois marry in 1992's Superman (vol. 2) #75 in a big Event Comic that became a major source of financial speculation at the time.
However, marital bliss was not in store for our classic lovers, instead introducing the character of Kenny Braverman, a.k.a. Conduit, whose powers were granted by the crash landing of Kal El’s space cradle, flooding him with radiation and allowing him to emit Kryptonite radiation. Formerly an abused child, Conduit, who blames Kent for his hard life, attacks the wedding ceremony, apparently killing Lois Lane (her fate left as a shocking cliffhanger). While Lois would end up on life support, Superman would watch as Conduit attacks his family and friends, burning the Kent homestead to the ground and kidnapping Lara Lane. This sends Superman on his controversial hunt, dubbed a “revenge quest” by comics fans, where he openly considers killing Conduit for the “greater good”[3].
(Image source Den of Geek)
Also at DC, the adult-themed Vertigo line was continuing to push the limits of what could be in a comic, with Gaiman’s The Sandman continuing its iconic run, taking Morpheus, the avatar of Dream, deeper into existential exploration and into reckoning for his past actions. It was the Goth Culture scene made manifest and was in many ways the poster child for what the Dark Age could be when allowed to move beyond puerile wish fulfilment. But let’s face it, Morphy was kind of a self-absorbed tool. Morrison would take an occasional break from JLA and Batman to provide some Vertigo titles, such as the Steam Romance Sebastian O. and the Phillip Bond collaboration Kill Your Boyfriend.
Like this but far sooner! (Image source Bleeding Cool News)
Gaiman would continue to support The Sandman line through to its conclusion, but remained a freelancer, ultimately simultaneously contracting with rival Marvel following his work with Tim Burton. This of course led to the popular The Mighty Thor: A Debt to the Norns storyline, which delved deep into some of the more twisted and family-unfriendly aspects of Norse mythology, and to the now-iconic “Infinite Regressions” storyline for Dr. Strange, which introduced the idea of Dr. Spektor (who was acquired with Gold Key) as the human avatar for a trans-dimensional incorporeal being attempting to forge an alliance with the Sorcerer Supreme as it battled Lovecraftian Horrors “beyond Cartesian reality”. The latter storyline remains a favorite of fans and academics alike, the latter in large part due to how it delved into intellectual subjects like quantum physics, fractal math, and Fibonacci ratios. This mathematical-metaphysical mix was reportedly influenced by Gaiman’s Skeleton Crew collaborations with Tool front man Maynard James Keenan[4].
Alan Moore, who is largely credited with initiating the Dark/Iron Age, would be lured back to DC after they allowed the rights to The Watchmen to lapse and gave him, via Vertigo, the green light to launch his Twilight of the Superheroes line, an alternate world where superheroes have forged ruling dynasties. It all leads to a Götterdämmerung style ending that sees the fall of many of the most famous DC heroes from Superman and Wonder Woman to the entire Marvel clan. Despite being a parallel world, the cynical, deconstructive, and misanthropic take on the beloved heroes created shock in the industry and fandom alike. It remains Moore’s most controversial work.
Frank Miller, who along with Moore is credited with launching the Dark/Iron/Bakelite Age, would by contrast leave the major labels, completing his Elektra Lives line for Epic, and then going freelance himself. For Dark Horse he’d produce such memorable works as the Noir-tinged Sin City and the historical epic The 300, as previously mentioned.
Hey, baby, wanna Spawn?
In Marvel, by this point firmly a part of the Disney empire, Jim Shooter was in charge and, with Disney keeping the lights on and CCO Jim Henson happy to give them the creative freedom they sought, he opened the door for his writers to push the limits. The Epic line, largely rebranded into an adult line to compete with Vertigo, became the home for some of Marvel’s new wunderkinds like Dale Keown, Todd McFarlane, Art Adams, Jim Lee, Erik Larsen, and Rob Liefeld. 1993 for example saw the launch of McFarlane’s now-iconic Hellspawn, which followed Al Simmons, a CIA assassin who dies, goes to hell, and is “recruited” against his will as a “Hellspawn”, or knight in Mephisto’s service.
Hellspawn rivalled Venom and everyone’s favorite Merc as the poster child of the Dark/Iron Age. Violent, ruthless, cruel, ugly, conflicted, and angst-ridden, Hellspawn set the tone for the dark, tortured antiheroes to come. The comic sold like crazy, eventually spawning (pun totally intended, I’m sure) a movie. Featuring McFarlane’s flowing, dynamic art, Hellspawn was also one of the first Marvel comics to use digital inking and painting using the DIS Stations, pushing the technical as well as thematic bounds of the medium. It also gained the ire of the moral guardians, despite being a part of the adult-focused Epic line, who blasted it for “glorifying Satan”, despite the fact that Simmons’ fate is hardly portrayed as a “good thing” for him. Seriously, did those assholes even read it?
Other Epic lines pushed the limits in similar ways. Shooter, Steve Englehart, and artist David Lapham’s Shadowman and Bob Layton and Bernard Chang’s The Second Life of Doctor Mirage both spun off from Dr. Strange and dipped into necromancy and other “darque” magics. Erik Larsen’s The Savage Dragon, a character he developed as a child, incorporated Cowboy Cop tropes and made the titular character an actual Chicago Police Officer rather than a masked vigilante. The Wachowski Siblings (writing as Larry and Andy at the time I love you either way, sisters!) would start their careers at Marvel, writing for Ectokid and Clive Barker’s Hellraiser and Night Breed for Epic.
(Image source Marvel.com)
Rob Liefeld also began to make an impact at Marvel and Epic, where his exaggerated forms and anatomy-defying poses became indelibly linked to the Dark/Iron Age. While often the butt of snark later, Liefeld is credited with launching some of the most famous characters and storylines of the Age, including Cable (with Louise Simonson) and Youngblood. His second most famous creation of the era was the foul-mouthed, gun-toting, rageaholic Shooter Jim, obviously based on Marvel President Jim Shooter, who at this point in his career loved to play the “bad cop” to Chairman Stan Lee’s “good cop”[5].His less-famous characters, like the maligned Deathstroke rip-off Deadpan, whose attempts at being “stoic” in an “Eastwood-like” manner came across as “dull”, largely faded into obscurity, however. And who can forget his greatest creation, the beloved Merc with the Mouth, Deadpool! Sure, it took the genius of Joe Kelly to truly unlock his hilarious potential and free him from the confines of the page, a self-aware Meta Character who, by not being bound by print, was in reality a God among mortals. Is it any wonder why he is so universally beloved?[6]
And in a sign of just how insane the Age was, influenced by McFarlane and Liefeld, Joe Kelly took the relatively minor DC character of Ambush Bug and made him self-aware, a fourth wall breaking wiseass who gained a huge cult following specifically because of his medium awareness[7].
Liefeld and McFarlane largely set the tone for the age, with weapons getting larger, antiheroes getting more grimdark, and morality getting slipperier, with even Spiderman and Captain America taking darker turns at various points. The appearance of the alien symbiote and Venom marked a darker turn for Spider-Man in particular, and many on the staff were nostalgic for the “Spidey of old”, who’d lit up the Big Screen by this point. Thus, Peter Parker was given some time off, marrying Mary Jane and having a son together (reportedly in response to the Marriage of Superman) while his Clone Ben Reilly from The Amazing Spider-Man #149 takes over as Spider-Man. The decision to retire Peter Parker was a controversial one, and some in the editorial staff objected, in particular editor Bob Budanski, who wanted to find a way to revert back to Peter, but DeFalco as Marvel Editor in Chief and Shooter, as the “final authority”[8], stuck to the script, particularly once it was discovered that Disney CCO Jim Henson liked the idea of Peter and Mary Jane having a “well-earned happy ending”.
While old comics fans were divided, with many writing angry letters, the crybabies no kidding, the “reset” allowed a “way in” for the many new readers who first discovered and fell in love with Big Screen Spidey, even as the Ben-Peter dichotomy caused some early confusion. Further controversy followed with the death (albeit peaceful) of Aunt May. Spider-Man: The Final Adventure would debut in late 1994, ending with the ironic death of the Gwen Stacey clone who started the whole Clone mess in 1970 and the birth of Peter and Mary Jane’s son, Benjamin Richard Parker. The Fandom and Marvel staff alike split into “Peter” and “Ben” factions, but for the time being, Ben was Spidey while Peter would remain “retired”, returning on occasion to help out or mentor Ben[9].
Spiderman, meanwhile, continued to cross over into other Marvel and Epic comics lines, getting pulled into the Age of Apocalypse crossover with the many X-Men lines along with the Fantastic Four and The Avengers. The Age of Apocalypse crossover led to increasing morally gray actions as the various factions competed, with the fate of the Universe in the balance. While originally happening in the core Earth 616, it later got Retconned into its own Earth 336 since the massive fallout of the series, which resulted in the shocking deaths of many favorite characters, would have been a mess to straighten back up.
Meanwhile, Shooter pushed to relaunch many of the old Gold Key and Harvey characters, recruiting Barry Windsor-Smith and Bob Layton to relaunch Turok, Dinosaur Hunter; Magnus, Robot Fighter; and Solar, Man of the Atom, the latter two of which were given a retro-futuristic makeover. They also launched new lines like Harbinger, Ninjak, and Bloodshot[10].
(Image source “valiant.fandom.com”)
Magnus, meanwhile, served as a vehicle for an all-new Marvel 4000 series[11], which took the many Marvel characters, or at least their descendants and inheritors, into the far future year of 4000. Magnus becomes a darker character in a dystopian, cyberpunkish future world where environmental degradation has left the planet scorched and lifeless and overharvesting has left natural resources exhausted. Robots rule space around Earth where they deliver celestially-mined resources to the Bot-ruled territories on earth that the non-bot-ruled areas have to steal in Viking-like raids in order to survive. Humanity is squeezed into “megopolis” city states, each with its own politics and culture, some bot-ruled, some not. Magnus’ megopolis is ruled by robots alluded to have been built using modified plans for Ultron, but programmed to care for humans and protect them at all costs. And while this seemed like a good idea at the time, is devolved quickly into a Crapsacharine arrangement where humans are kept like pets or cattle, the Bot's original "three rules" style programming skewed into something super-patriarchal. Eh…we’re kind of asking for it. Magnus and a few others have risen up against it.
The success of the Magnus reboot led to the launch of the Marvel 4000 line, with other megopoli introduced in other titles. One megopolis sees the “Old Heroes” of the Avengers, Fantastic Four, and X-Men are revered as gods and Humans and Mutants living peacefully together, but with residual animosity as resources are short. Another megopolis is ruled by totalitarian Mutants following the edicts of the Brotherhood of Mutants, with a hereditary supreme ruler who claims divine descendance from Magneto. Later titles introduced where Space has gone, with the Silver Surfer, further radicalized by the death of Galactus, leading a brutal war of terror against the robots allied to an older and mentally damaged post-Ragnarök Thor.
The Magic Realm even had its own fight as techno-wizardry allowed necromantic cyborgs to blur the lines between bot, zombie, and mage. Necropolis, for example, was introduced as a “necro-techno-wizardry” city of bones (the fandom dubbed it “Zombie Borg Land”). Dr. Strange, Dr. Spektor, and the future Sorcerer Supreme, the magically-cybernetic Eterias, are leading this fight.
Like the Age of Apocalypse, the Marvel 4000 line would ultimately be retconned into its own Earth 4000 setting.
The setting of Marvel 4000 of course reminded the publishers of 2000 AD a little too much of the setting for Judge Dredd, leading them to consider a lawsuit. Who didn’t see that coming? Instead, 2000 AD partnered with Dark Horse and began distributing in North America, making the Judge Dredd character in particular better known in the States, where some ironically considered him a Magnus and Punisher rip-off. In response, Dredd creator John Wagner decided to launch Judge Dredd’s famous (and slightly tongue-in-cheek) “Copycat saga”, whereby a mad scientist named James Magnuson creates robot copies of the Judges in an insane attempt to replace them all and thereby rule the Mega Cities himself. Modeled on Jim Shooter, the character managed to be the second 1990s character after the Liefeld character based on the influential Marvel President.
And if that doesn’t tell you how much influence Jim Shooter had on the Dark/Iron Age, then nothing will.
Eh, I find him overrated.
Totally.
Oh, shut up, Bug.
You know you love me!
[1] Massive, multiversial crossover hat-tips to @nick_crenshaw82, @Ogrebear, and @Pyro for the assist in this article. The Deadpool fourth wall vandalism was all me no me, though, so don’tblame thank them.
[2] A brilliant title for those who know their Latin!
[3] This idea courtesy of @Pyro (hat-tip!). For those wondering what happens, in Pyro’s own words: “Eventually, Conduit lures Clark to a mock version of Smallville filled with android duplicates of its inhabitants programmed to despise him. Superman and Conduit face off in the football stadium. While the two start on fairly even terms with Conduit's Kryptonite blasts weakening the Man of Steel, Superman's rage eventually overcomes them and he tears off Conduit's armor before readying the final blow...only for Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern (Hal Jordan), and members of the Justice League to arrive with a recently-recovered Lois. She pleads with Clark to spare Conduit's life as the Superman she loves would never take the life of another, [and he spares Conduit] when he realizes how far he's gone. However, just as the two walk away, Conduit breaks loose from the Justice League's restraints and activates a self-destruct in a last-ditch attempt to take out his hated rival for good. Superman shields Lois from the blast, but the Kryptonite radiation saturated his cells and left him temporarily powerless until his body absorbs enough solar radiation to filter out the Kryptonite [ultimately] leading into ‘Reign of the Supermen’ where several new heroes appear in Metropolis to fill the void left by the powerless Superman like Steel, Superboy, and [even] a ‘reformed’ Lex Luthor.”
[4] More on this madness to come.
[5] While Shooter has adopted a lot of Henson’s lessons on talent management, he’s still Jim Shooter.
[6] Wade, you’re butterflied! Get the hell out of my timeline!
Ha, nice try, asshole! You ain’t gonna butterfly me!
My Timeline. You’re butterflied. Period.
Nuh-uh!
[7] Hey! I deleted that section!
I rewrote it. Salute to @nick_crenshaw82 for thinking of me, by the way.
Ambush Bug? I’ll totally squash you.
Face it, DP, I’m the fourth wall breaking wiseass of this TL! Butterflies are a bitch.
This ain’t over, Bug.
[8] With Disney underwriting everything, there will be no “five editors-in-chief” mess, with each trying to outdo the others, and no favoritism or sabotage between lines.
[9] Yes, the original plan goes through. No “Maximum Clonage”.
[10] Needless to say, the Image and Valiant Comics lines are Marvel lines in this timeline.
[11] Hat tip to @TheIdiot224 for this idea. This will replace Marvel 2099.
From Pow! An Illustrated History of American Comics from the Victorian to the Modern
By the early 1990s the Dark Age of Comics, for those who recognize it, was in full effect[1]. It was the era where Venom got his own print while Aunt May died, where Superman would pursue a revenge quest following the near-death of Lois Lane, Hellspawn would launch, and gun-toting, casually-violent antiheroes would take center stage away from the Caped Crusaders. And best of all it’s the era when everyone’s favorite Mouthy Merc would appear, forever making comics a better place for everyone.
Like comic’s awkward adolescence, it was a period ironically marked both by more adult themes, and by more juvenile fantasies. We’d see many of the favorite old school characters like Peter Parker retire while Eddie Brock would go on literal rampages. Antiheroes began to get more overtly hypermasculine and violent, even as the trend towards such musclebound killers was fading away in films. The more mature themes of the Bronze Age evolved into more overt pushing-the-limits on sex, drugs, and graphic violence. And it was really freakin’ funny and awesome. Especially when you-know-who did it.
It was also the era of the Comic Book Speculator’s Market, which saw the hoarding of comic books and the creation of numerous “event comics” to capitalize upon it. Numerous fans bought numerous copies of comics and filed them away, hoping for them to gain value over time, which might actually have happened if everyone else wasn’t doing the exact same thing. It was the era where less scrupulous producers even used limited print runs and forced scarcity to create demand the magnificent bastards. Ironically, it was these more manipulative forced scarcity efforts that actually managed to produce works which could grow in value over time, though not to the degree that their keepers hoped.
In many respects the Dark Age, or early Iron Age if you prefer, I thought you said it was the Bakelite age? was a natural evolution of the Bronze Age, continuing to explore more mature themes and pursue more adult audiences in the absence of the Comics Code. It experimented not just with more controversial subjects, but also explored new art styles, new technologies like digital inking and coloring, and new storytelling techniques. Don’t forget fourth wall breaks! This led to a strange juxtaposition where the same comics lines could feature deep explorations of the philosophy of crime and punishment…and then turn into a gratuitous splatter-fest.
Dark Horse Comics came into its own in this era, distributing not just movie-based lines like Alien vs. Predator, but distributing indie artists like J. O’Barr, whose goth-inspired The Crow would feature in his own film, directed by Sam Raimi. Frank Miller’s Sin City and The 300 would debut, as would the insane Doug Mahnke series The Mask and the punkish Jamie Hewlett and Alan Martin comic Tank Girl, both of which also became movies later in the decade. But it would be Mike Mignola’s Hellboy who would have the most lasting impact, appearing in 1993 and redefining what a superhero could be. Mignola, Hewlett, Miller, and O’Barr also broke new ground artistically, each having an unmistakable signature art style that stood out in a world defined by classic DC and Marvel stylings.
The UK comics magazine 2000 AD continued to expand the Judge Dredd character, featuring the popular “The Dead Man” storyline, which saw the titular Judge coming to terms with mortality and beginning to question his purpose. They expanded with strips like Firekind and Sinister Dexter[2]. 1993 also saw the “Summer Offensive” where comics writers including Grant Morrison and Mark Millar were given free rein to write whatever they wanted, resulting in some truly insane works like “Big Dave” and “Slaughterbowl” where convicts ride dinosaurs into battle against each other.
But, needless to say, it was the “big boys”, Marvel and DC, who made the biggest impact on the Age.
DC, post-crisis and under the increasing supervision of their bosses at Warner Brothers, was having a crisis of identity itself. Writers like Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman, and Grant Morrison were adding depth and darkness, with Morrison’s take on Batman following on from Frank Miller’s earlier dark, gothic take exemplified in The Dark Knight Returns. Morrison’s turn on Batman became very popular and a source of inspiration for other dark vigilante characters of the age, and given the success of the Raimi Batman films and the Bird Brain Batman animated series, Morrison was at first given a lot of leeway to continue this darker tone, not just with Bats, but with the whole of the Justice League, rebranded as the “JLA”. This would reverse itself when that asshole John Peters became an executive in 1994 and along with prick producer Tom Rothman pushed for more “toyetic” work even as they simultaneously pushed for more of the “dark, grown-up stuff the nerds like”.
Like this, but the other way around! (Image source Screen Rant)
Superman would be the ultimate victim of this schizophrenia, and rumor has it that they almost killed him off. But they didn’t, the cowards! Instead, Sups entered the decade with the promise of good times ahead, proposing to Lois Lane and becoming engaged, outwardly as Clark Kent. Clark and Lois marry in 1992's Superman (vol. 2) #75 in a big Event Comic that became a major source of financial speculation at the time.
However, marital bliss was not in store for our classic lovers, instead introducing the character of Kenny Braverman, a.k.a. Conduit, whose powers were granted by the crash landing of Kal El’s space cradle, flooding him with radiation and allowing him to emit Kryptonite radiation. Formerly an abused child, Conduit, who blames Kent for his hard life, attacks the wedding ceremony, apparently killing Lois Lane (her fate left as a shocking cliffhanger). While Lois would end up on life support, Superman would watch as Conduit attacks his family and friends, burning the Kent homestead to the ground and kidnapping Lara Lane. This sends Superman on his controversial hunt, dubbed a “revenge quest” by comics fans, where he openly considers killing Conduit for the “greater good”[3].
(Image source Den of Geek)
Also at DC, the adult-themed Vertigo line was continuing to push the limits of what could be in a comic, with Gaiman’s The Sandman continuing its iconic run, taking Morpheus, the avatar of Dream, deeper into existential exploration and into reckoning for his past actions. It was the Goth Culture scene made manifest and was in many ways the poster child for what the Dark Age could be when allowed to move beyond puerile wish fulfilment. But let’s face it, Morphy was kind of a self-absorbed tool. Morrison would take an occasional break from JLA and Batman to provide some Vertigo titles, such as the Steam Romance Sebastian O. and the Phillip Bond collaboration Kill Your Boyfriend.
Like this but far sooner! (Image source Bleeding Cool News)
Gaiman would continue to support The Sandman line through to its conclusion, but remained a freelancer, ultimately simultaneously contracting with rival Marvel following his work with Tim Burton. This of course led to the popular The Mighty Thor: A Debt to the Norns storyline, which delved deep into some of the more twisted and family-unfriendly aspects of Norse mythology, and to the now-iconic “Infinite Regressions” storyline for Dr. Strange, which introduced the idea of Dr. Spektor (who was acquired with Gold Key) as the human avatar for a trans-dimensional incorporeal being attempting to forge an alliance with the Sorcerer Supreme as it battled Lovecraftian Horrors “beyond Cartesian reality”. The latter storyline remains a favorite of fans and academics alike, the latter in large part due to how it delved into intellectual subjects like quantum physics, fractal math, and Fibonacci ratios. This mathematical-metaphysical mix was reportedly influenced by Gaiman’s Skeleton Crew collaborations with Tool front man Maynard James Keenan[4].
Alan Moore, who is largely credited with initiating the Dark/Iron Age, would be lured back to DC after they allowed the rights to The Watchmen to lapse and gave him, via Vertigo, the green light to launch his Twilight of the Superheroes line, an alternate world where superheroes have forged ruling dynasties. It all leads to a Götterdämmerung style ending that sees the fall of many of the most famous DC heroes from Superman and Wonder Woman to the entire Marvel clan. Despite being a parallel world, the cynical, deconstructive, and misanthropic take on the beloved heroes created shock in the industry and fandom alike. It remains Moore’s most controversial work.
Frank Miller, who along with Moore is credited with launching the Dark/Iron/Bakelite Age, would by contrast leave the major labels, completing his Elektra Lives line for Epic, and then going freelance himself. For Dark Horse he’d produce such memorable works as the Noir-tinged Sin City and the historical epic The 300, as previously mentioned.
Hey, baby, wanna Spawn?
In Marvel, by this point firmly a part of the Disney empire, Jim Shooter was in charge and, with Disney keeping the lights on and CCO Jim Henson happy to give them the creative freedom they sought, he opened the door for his writers to push the limits. The Epic line, largely rebranded into an adult line to compete with Vertigo, became the home for some of Marvel’s new wunderkinds like Dale Keown, Todd McFarlane, Art Adams, Jim Lee, Erik Larsen, and Rob Liefeld. 1993 for example saw the launch of McFarlane’s now-iconic Hellspawn, which followed Al Simmons, a CIA assassin who dies, goes to hell, and is “recruited” against his will as a “Hellspawn”, or knight in Mephisto’s service.
Hellspawn rivalled Venom and everyone’s favorite Merc as the poster child of the Dark/Iron Age. Violent, ruthless, cruel, ugly, conflicted, and angst-ridden, Hellspawn set the tone for the dark, tortured antiheroes to come. The comic sold like crazy, eventually spawning (pun totally intended, I’m sure) a movie. Featuring McFarlane’s flowing, dynamic art, Hellspawn was also one of the first Marvel comics to use digital inking and painting using the DIS Stations, pushing the technical as well as thematic bounds of the medium. It also gained the ire of the moral guardians, despite being a part of the adult-focused Epic line, who blasted it for “glorifying Satan”, despite the fact that Simmons’ fate is hardly portrayed as a “good thing” for him. Seriously, did those assholes even read it?
Other Epic lines pushed the limits in similar ways. Shooter, Steve Englehart, and artist David Lapham’s Shadowman and Bob Layton and Bernard Chang’s The Second Life of Doctor Mirage both spun off from Dr. Strange and dipped into necromancy and other “darque” magics. Erik Larsen’s The Savage Dragon, a character he developed as a child, incorporated Cowboy Cop tropes and made the titular character an actual Chicago Police Officer rather than a masked vigilante. The Wachowski Siblings (writing as Larry and Andy at the time I love you either way, sisters!) would start their careers at Marvel, writing for Ectokid and Clive Barker’s Hellraiser and Night Breed for Epic.
(Image source Marvel.com)
Rob Liefeld also began to make an impact at Marvel and Epic, where his exaggerated forms and anatomy-defying poses became indelibly linked to the Dark/Iron Age. While often the butt of snark later, Liefeld is credited with launching some of the most famous characters and storylines of the Age, including Cable (with Louise Simonson) and Youngblood. His second most famous creation of the era was the foul-mouthed, gun-toting, rageaholic Shooter Jim, obviously based on Marvel President Jim Shooter, who at this point in his career loved to play the “bad cop” to Chairman Stan Lee’s “good cop”[5].
And in a sign of just how insane the Age was, influenced by McFarlane and Liefeld, Joe Kelly took the relatively minor DC character of Ambush Bug and made him self-aware, a fourth wall breaking wiseass who gained a huge cult following specifically because of his medium awareness[7].
Liefeld and McFarlane largely set the tone for the age, with weapons getting larger, antiheroes getting more grimdark, and morality getting slipperier, with even Spiderman and Captain America taking darker turns at various points. The appearance of the alien symbiote and Venom marked a darker turn for Spider-Man in particular, and many on the staff were nostalgic for the “Spidey of old”, who’d lit up the Big Screen by this point. Thus, Peter Parker was given some time off, marrying Mary Jane and having a son together (reportedly in response to the Marriage of Superman) while his Clone Ben Reilly from The Amazing Spider-Man #149 takes over as Spider-Man. The decision to retire Peter Parker was a controversial one, and some in the editorial staff objected, in particular editor Bob Budanski, who wanted to find a way to revert back to Peter, but DeFalco as Marvel Editor in Chief and Shooter, as the “final authority”[8], stuck to the script, particularly once it was discovered that Disney CCO Jim Henson liked the idea of Peter and Mary Jane having a “well-earned happy ending”.
While old comics fans were divided, with many writing angry letters, the crybabies no kidding, the “reset” allowed a “way in” for the many new readers who first discovered and fell in love with Big Screen Spidey, even as the Ben-Peter dichotomy caused some early confusion. Further controversy followed with the death (albeit peaceful) of Aunt May. Spider-Man: The Final Adventure would debut in late 1994, ending with the ironic death of the Gwen Stacey clone who started the whole Clone mess in 1970 and the birth of Peter and Mary Jane’s son, Benjamin Richard Parker. The Fandom and Marvel staff alike split into “Peter” and “Ben” factions, but for the time being, Ben was Spidey while Peter would remain “retired”, returning on occasion to help out or mentor Ben[9].
Spiderman, meanwhile, continued to cross over into other Marvel and Epic comics lines, getting pulled into the Age of Apocalypse crossover with the many X-Men lines along with the Fantastic Four and The Avengers. The Age of Apocalypse crossover led to increasing morally gray actions as the various factions competed, with the fate of the Universe in the balance. While originally happening in the core Earth 616, it later got Retconned into its own Earth 336 since the massive fallout of the series, which resulted in the shocking deaths of many favorite characters, would have been a mess to straighten back up.
Meanwhile, Shooter pushed to relaunch many of the old Gold Key and Harvey characters, recruiting Barry Windsor-Smith and Bob Layton to relaunch Turok, Dinosaur Hunter; Magnus, Robot Fighter; and Solar, Man of the Atom, the latter two of which were given a retro-futuristic makeover. They also launched new lines like Harbinger, Ninjak, and Bloodshot[10].
(Image source “valiant.fandom.com”)
Magnus, meanwhile, served as a vehicle for an all-new Marvel 4000 series[11], which took the many Marvel characters, or at least their descendants and inheritors, into the far future year of 4000. Magnus becomes a darker character in a dystopian, cyberpunkish future world where environmental degradation has left the planet scorched and lifeless and overharvesting has left natural resources exhausted. Robots rule space around Earth where they deliver celestially-mined resources to the Bot-ruled territories on earth that the non-bot-ruled areas have to steal in Viking-like raids in order to survive. Humanity is squeezed into “megopolis” city states, each with its own politics and culture, some bot-ruled, some not. Magnus’ megopolis is ruled by robots alluded to have been built using modified plans for Ultron, but programmed to care for humans and protect them at all costs. And while this seemed like a good idea at the time, is devolved quickly into a Crapsacharine arrangement where humans are kept like pets or cattle, the Bot's original "three rules" style programming skewed into something super-patriarchal. Eh…we’re kind of asking for it. Magnus and a few others have risen up against it.
The success of the Magnus reboot led to the launch of the Marvel 4000 line, with other megopoli introduced in other titles. One megopolis sees the “Old Heroes” of the Avengers, Fantastic Four, and X-Men are revered as gods and Humans and Mutants living peacefully together, but with residual animosity as resources are short. Another megopolis is ruled by totalitarian Mutants following the edicts of the Brotherhood of Mutants, with a hereditary supreme ruler who claims divine descendance from Magneto. Later titles introduced where Space has gone, with the Silver Surfer, further radicalized by the death of Galactus, leading a brutal war of terror against the robots allied to an older and mentally damaged post-Ragnarök Thor.
The Magic Realm even had its own fight as techno-wizardry allowed necromantic cyborgs to blur the lines between bot, zombie, and mage. Necropolis, for example, was introduced as a “necro-techno-wizardry” city of bones (the fandom dubbed it “Zombie Borg Land”). Dr. Strange, Dr. Spektor, and the future Sorcerer Supreme, the magically-cybernetic Eterias, are leading this fight.
Like the Age of Apocalypse, the Marvel 4000 line would ultimately be retconned into its own Earth 4000 setting.
The setting of Marvel 4000 of course reminded the publishers of 2000 AD a little too much of the setting for Judge Dredd, leading them to consider a lawsuit. Who didn’t see that coming? Instead, 2000 AD partnered with Dark Horse and began distributing in North America, making the Judge Dredd character in particular better known in the States, where some ironically considered him a Magnus and Punisher rip-off. In response, Dredd creator John Wagner decided to launch Judge Dredd’s famous (and slightly tongue-in-cheek) “Copycat saga”, whereby a mad scientist named James Magnuson creates robot copies of the Judges in an insane attempt to replace them all and thereby rule the Mega Cities himself. Modeled on Jim Shooter, the character managed to be the second 1990s character after the Liefeld character based on the influential Marvel President.
And if that doesn’t tell you how much influence Jim Shooter had on the Dark/Iron Age, then nothing will.
Eh, I find him overrated.
Totally.
Oh, shut up, Bug.
You know you love me!
[1] Massive, multiversial crossover hat-tips to @nick_crenshaw82, @Ogrebear, and @Pyro for the assist in this article. The Deadpool fourth wall vandalism was all me no me, though, so don’t
[2] A brilliant title for those who know their Latin!
[3] This idea courtesy of @Pyro (hat-tip!). For those wondering what happens, in Pyro’s own words: “Eventually, Conduit lures Clark to a mock version of Smallville filled with android duplicates of its inhabitants programmed to despise him. Superman and Conduit face off in the football stadium. While the two start on fairly even terms with Conduit's Kryptonite blasts weakening the Man of Steel, Superman's rage eventually overcomes them and he tears off Conduit's armor before readying the final blow...only for Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern (Hal Jordan), and members of the Justice League to arrive with a recently-recovered Lois. She pleads with Clark to spare Conduit's life as the Superman she loves would never take the life of another, [and he spares Conduit] when he realizes how far he's gone. However, just as the two walk away, Conduit breaks loose from the Justice League's restraints and activates a self-destruct in a last-ditch attempt to take out his hated rival for good. Superman shields Lois from the blast, but the Kryptonite radiation saturated his cells and left him temporarily powerless until his body absorbs enough solar radiation to filter out the Kryptonite [ultimately] leading into ‘Reign of the Supermen’ where several new heroes appear in Metropolis to fill the void left by the powerless Superman like Steel, Superboy, and [even] a ‘reformed’ Lex Luthor.”
[4] More on this madness to come.
[5] While Shooter has adopted a lot of Henson’s lessons on talent management, he’s still Jim Shooter.
[6] Wade, you’re butterflied! Get the hell out of my timeline!
Ha, nice try, asshole! You ain’t gonna butterfly me!
My Timeline. You’re butterflied. Period.
Nuh-uh!
[7] Hey! I deleted that section!
I rewrote it. Salute to @nick_crenshaw82 for thinking of me, by the way.
Ambush Bug? I’ll totally squash you.
Face it, DP, I’m the fourth wall breaking wiseass of this TL! Butterflies are a bitch.
This ain’t over, Bug.
[8] With Disney underwriting everything, there will be no “five editors-in-chief” mess, with each trying to outdo the others, and no favoritism or sabotage between lines.
[9] Yes, the original plan goes through. No “Maximum Clonage”.
[10] Needless to say, the Image and Valiant Comics lines are Marvel lines in this timeline.
[11] Hat tip to @TheIdiot224 for this idea. This will replace Marvel 2099.
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