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Probably not NKoTB, but yea, any other suggestions?
I would find it highly amusing if Seal's Kiss From A Rose gets bumped up a couple of years for Spiderman instead of OTL's Batman. Might mean a little something extra if TTL's Spiderman includes the hanging kiss with MJ from the OTL movie.

A quick check on Wikipedia reveals the song was written and rough-recorded all the way back in 1987, but Seal wasn't satisfied with it and held off putting it in an album until '94 when it was reedited to the version that became a hit. I bring this up because if Disney's shopping around for musical talent to include in the Spiderman movie, the first-album-in-1991 Seal could cross the desk of someone who asks to hear some of his 'unfinished' work and pick up on that song as appropriate for MJ's theme.
 
Well, remember that they've been in Production Hell since the days of Walt, so this isn't the revelation you think it is.
Fair enough, but it's worrying that we'll never get to see TLM and BATB at all ITTL if they still remain under development hell. Maybe Tim Rice and Alan Menken can come to save the day?

PB&J, Reuben, ham and cheese...
All valid flavors for a handwich. Though, I can't help but think they'd stuff the PB&J with fruit or whipped cream to make up for use of spreads. After all, one of the Castle Cone prototypes did include mixed berries as an option.

Of course the bigger lesson of that last Well post is thus: This is not the Disney of 1990 OTL. Eisner's fingerprints are on more than just the building architecture and park placement. They are still to be seen in the culture of the Disney organization. In this timeline, Jim Henson's "Hippie idealism" mixed with Roy Disney's "Dream before the Scheme" mindset have created a different corporate culture than what we had in the OTL Disney Renaissance. ITTL Disney has changed more than just in choosing Spain over Paris and Mistress Masham over The Little Mermaid or restoring the Old Animation Building over building the Team Disney building, it's actively adopting a corporate culture based on the "Dream" rather than the "Scheme".
Makes me wonder if the main conflict within the Disney fandom ITTL is really just the conservative vs. liberal mindset if the company is seen as never losing the magic of Walt with the inclusion of Jim and the rise of Roy as a more prominent figure in Walt Disney Entertainment compared to our timeline. I had a headcanon where old Disney fans in the 90s and 2000s drew Jim Henson as Death trying to reap Mickey Mouse, referencing how his inclusion into the company ruined Walt's Americana and "family values". I reckon the threads on netsites would be very spicy like what happened with late Eisner or now with Iger and Chapek.
 
I would find it highly amusing if Seal's Kiss From A Rose gets bumped up a couple of years for Spiderman instead of OTL's Batman. Might mean a little something extra if TTL's Spiderman includes the hanging kiss with MJ from the OTL movie.

A quick check on Wikipedia reveals the song was written and rough-recorded all the way back in 1987, but Seal wasn't satisfied with it and held off putting it in an album until '94 when it was reedited to the version that became a hit. I bring this up because if Disney's shopping around for musical talent to include in the Spiderman movie, the first-album-in-1991 Seal could cross the desk of someone who asks to hear some of his 'unfinished' work and pick up on that song as appropriate for MJ's theme.

I guess it depends on what kind of Spiderman movie it is. Peter and Mary Jane have been married for 3 years in comics (even though Peter was dating Felicia Hardy basically up until the wedding). Now that I have read more of the comics it is rather odd to me that the first Sam Raimi takes the beats from Gwen Stacy being kidnapped by the Green Goblin and putting it on MJ.
 
Will Spider-Man be live action? If so how will they do the web slinging scenes? Will it have Gwen Stacy or Mary Jane Watson? If the later may I suggest Molly Ringwald.
 
And if Gwen Stacy is in the movie, too, here's a perfect choice for her: Christina Applegate. Hey, TTL butterflied away Married...With Children, and she's too talented not to work in something...
 
For J. Jonah Jameson, I can easily picture Kurtwood Smith as him. Just look at a certain Wisconsin dad and you'll see what I mean.

Also, one idea I had for a Spider-Man adaptation was making Peter a conspiracy theorist and drawing allusion between the strings he makes and his webs, as well as going with the idea of how conspiracy theorists are irresoibsible to assume you know what's really going on.
 
For J. Jonah Jameson, I can easily picture Kurtwood Smith as him. Just look at a certain Wisconsin dad and you'll see what I mean.
Or R. Lee Ermey:
biAPaH.jpg


Idea gotten from this fan cast list, this I think works for the most part:

Several other fan cast lists:
 
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Or R. Lee Ermey:
biAPaH.jpg


Idea gotten from this fan cast list, this I think works for the most part:

Several other fan cast lists:

I love the idea of Leo as Harry working alongside River's Peter. Plus, if you look closely, there really is a minor resemblance between Leo and Jack. Micheal Biehn was apparently Cameron's choice to be Sandman so, he should definitely stay in. I'm also more of an advocate for Gwen being with peter and Mary Jane being with Harry for the time being. And of your wondering how a 90s, cinematic Spidey outfit might look, here's an idea.
 
Or, alternatively, have Christina Applegate play Mary Jane; there's something funny about Kelly Bundy (who really got around, if you know what I mean (1)) playing the girl-next-door...

(1) Wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more. (Points to whoever gets that)
 
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I have a confession to make; I kind of felt like, despite the intent on the timeline to not spoil Jim’s survival, there was a much earlier post - an interview from the late 1990s - that might have unwittingly stated that he was still kicking at that point; I don’t remember who was interviewing which person, but they said something along the lines of “we’re lucky to have Jim”, or some other line which thanks to present tense made me kind of certain he’s at least alive for a few years longer than IOTL. I didn’t say anything so as to avoid spoiling the suspense (and the possibility I had misread things), but to be honest for me it wasn’t a case of “will Jim survive 1990?” but rather, “HOW will Jim survive 1990?” Though it didn’t spoil anything regardless, there was so much to ponder on and enjoy.

It’s interesting to get that perspective on how our timeline differs at this point from TTL, even if I still don’t know whether The Bunyans began airing earlier or not than The Simpsons did (mostly because the post mentioning the show was dated in 87 or 88, and the fact of them being anthro rabbits could have accelerated them getting their own show; we also have an earlier BTAS by three years, for context, and The Bunyans could’ve had a full 22-episode first season on top of it all, rather than a half-season as IOTL!The Simpsons).

Fair enough, but it's worrying that we'll never get to see TLM and BATB at all ITTL if they still remain under development hell. Maybe Tim Rice and Alan Menken can come to save the day?
Fair enough, but it's worrying that we'll never get to see TLM and BATB at all ITTL if they still remain under development hell. Maybe Tim Rice and Alan Menken can come to save the day?
It actually intrigues me, at least pertaining to TLM, since IOTL it was John Musker and Ron Clements who pitched the idea for how to adapt it along with TP (unless I’m misinformed on who pitched vs. who WANTED to do it?) Guessing that it was Howard Ashman and Alan Menken’s musical direction which helped drive the narrative, or at least helped it come together; I do know that’s why Ashman was asked to do BATB, as they were struggling to have it come together. But I did not know he was as essential to TLM being made when it was (don’t mistake me for underplaying his vitality to the Renaissance though, it’s not for nothing that his scores are among the most acclaimed of the era).
Makes me wonder if the main conflict within the Disney fandom ITTL is really just the conservative vs. liberal mindset if the company is seen as never losing the magic of Walt with the inclusion of Jim and the rise of Roy as a more prominent figure in Walt Disney Entertainment compared to our timeline. I had a headcanon where old Disney fans in the 90s and 2000s drew Jim Henson as Death trying to reap Mickey Mouse, referencing how his inclusion into the company ruined Walt's Americana and "family values". I reckon the threads on netsites would be very spicy like what happened with late Eisner or now with Iger and Chapek.
They do say the grass is greener, eh? Some folks ITTL may have conceived something similar to OTL and think it’s better than having Jim “ruin” what Disney was, but just like actually experiencing TTL for ourselves (as opposed to reading about it), they might have more perspective and appreciate the good things they do get… Except the wankers who genuinely hold to their shallow foolishness and in turn persecute anyone not fitting their narrow ideal of the perfect world.
Or, alternatively, have Christina Applegate play Mary Jane; there's something funny about Kelly Bundy (who really got around, if you know what I mean (1)) playing the girl-next-door...

(1) Wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more. (Points to whoever gets that)
Did Applegate even get cast ITTL? I guess it doesn’t matter for us, although the in-universe audience would lose the insight; then again, Mary Jane Watson was also the “party girl” in the original comics, though not necessarily promiscuous (yet another aspect that Raimi’s OTL adaptation cut).

…Concerning a completely different Applegate, does Scholastic exist yet ITTL? A certain author may find a different publisher to pitch her idea in the late 90s, about a group of teenagers caught in an intergalactic guerrilla war between alien shapeshifters and parasitic worms… OK, I admit this is years away if it even exists at all, but it was a nagging thought I needed to expel.

Disney already did a version of the Ant and the Grasshopper back in 1934. The Grasshopper and the Ants -- also noted as one of the first times a character turned blue with cold.
They also did a Chicken Little short, which didn’t stop them creating that abomination of a 2000s animated movie…
But if you want them to make a big splash, the best thing to do is have them at the end of the movie, singing a cover of the 60s Spider-Man Cartoon theme. Make sure to add Stan Lee's cameo in there, maybe Ditko too if you can find him. Have Cameron write and produce and Burton Direct, maybe get Elfman for the score and you have a great film on your hands. That being said, were have GOT to get shot of some of the excess villains from Cameron's script. I recommend reducing it to two Green Goblin and Sandman.
Burton directing would be funny for obvious reasons (not bad, though), but assuming that James Cameron is onboard as he initially was IOTL… well, we’ll see, the man is both a perfectionist and quite hard to work with in general. Only more as he grew older, given the reduced rate of films he made later on.

Either way, a larger villain count could in theory work, but you need to balance and justify it. The reasons Into the Spiderverse made it work are multiple: it’s animated, which came with less “kill off the villains” expectations; they were a collected Rogues Gallery, who had an implied long history with the Spider-Man of Miles’ universe; exployed by the Big Bad; gave both unique action scenes, and could make combinations for the Spider-People to face them in… And so on. Live action needs a different format in general, but also would be determined by what the story is and how it plays out. Let’s see what GK has in store for us.

BTW, the mention of James Cameron has me wondering: will there be a third Alien film, and how will they avoid butchering the cast that Cameron’s Aliens made us love (ie: the reason nothing in the canon besides those two movies is actually canon, F*** you fight me).
 
Here's an idea for Beauty and the Beast, let Don Bluth have it, he was already working on an adaptation of it until he learned that Disney was also doing one.
 
Interesting fact re: Johnny Depp, @Geekhis Khan - apparently, he was originally going to be the lead in The Crow. He was James O'Barr's first choice - guess, OTL, he dodged a bullet (heh), with that one.

Although, ITTL, he might not...
 
Para Nada...
A Show About Nothing! Jerry (1989-1996)
From The TV Obsessive, by Hanmii Dahri-Mote, a regular column in TV Guide and other publications


Chances are that if you talk to someone in their 40s today about television you will hear them talk about Jerry, the 6-season show that failed, moved to cable, and returned to network TV where it became a minor hit whose influence far outlasted its success.

seinfeld_onesheet_1400x2100_0.jpg

Not quite this…

Jerry was the brain child of its two stars, Jerry Seinfeld and Larry David (the now legendary producers “Jerry & Larry”). The concept was simple and today seems cliché, but it was revolutionary when it came out: a mix of stand-up bits interspersed with Jerry and his shallow, self-absorbed friends complaining about the most trivial things in life. It was naturalistic, postmodern, and ingenious, and in another world probably became one of the greatest shows in television history.

Jerry Seinfeld played the titular Jerry, a phlegmatic flawed everyman whose fixation on the shallowest of personal shortcomings in his partners dooms all of his romantic relationships. Larry David played his neighbor Kramer, an unpleasant natural-born schemer always coming up with the most outlandish of get-rich-quick schemes and allegedly based upon a mutual friend of theirs. Rumor has it that they wanted comedic actor Michael Richards to play the role, but he was already ensconced in a career in Hollywood. Julia Louis-Dreyfus played Elaine, a conniving and manipulative ex-girlfriend of Jerry’s whose chain of eccentric boyfriends and bosses provided regular comedic input. And Jason Alexander played George, a lazy underachiever and worrywart always devising ever more complicated ways to avoid making any actual effort, and that inevitably ended up taking more time and effort than the original task he hoped to avoid. Several other guest stars came in as friends, family, coworkers, or passing antagonists with names like “The Soup Nazi”, “Man Hands”, “The Soft Talker”, “The Face Painter”, or any other number of dehumanizing titles.

It was, in the words of its modest but rabid fanbase, a show about nothing. A given episode may be about a disagreement between characters over what actor was in that TV show, or whether a jacket was worth the price, or whether or not to dump a significant other because of one minor little trait like the look of their hands or the fact that they paint their face for sports games. The daily low stakes challenges of its characters were then exaggerated by their overreactive neuroses into insurmountable crises. The title of the old Shakespearian play of “Much Ado About Nothing” comes instantly to mind. The sheer audacity of the character’s overreactions to such mundane issues added to the perceived realism of the show. Very few people have to deal with the common sitcom tropes of dating two people on the same night, having a wacky cousin from Albuquerque come to visit, or living with an alien, but who hasn’t been in a relationship with someone who has that one annoying habit or tick? Who hasn’t argued with a friend about a movie or got in a fight with a stranger at the laundromat over a dryer? It was infinitely relatable and thus seemed inherently real. It won several Emmys and influenced a generation of comedy producers, but it nearly didn’t come to pass.

The idea was born from ideas kicked around between Jerry and Larry based on their personal experiences living in New York City. They put together a basic pitch and got attention from NBC executive Rick Ludwin, the As You Wish production company, and MGM producers Bernie Brillstein and Diana Birkenfield, whose parent company Disney also owned a minority stake in As You Wish. Jerry & Larry put together a pilot, showed it to test audiences, and…it tanked. Hard[1]. They did some retooling and eventually got the pilot on NBC in the summer of 1989 where it performed well enough to get greenlit for a half season. But the ratings refused to materialize and the show soon got cancelled.

However, the show had one thing going for it: it played well in the lucrative young adult demographic. NBC’s loss was, to Brillstein and Birkenfield, Hyperion’s gain and the show was moved to the Hyperion Channel on Basic Cable, where it grabbed and maintained a good and lucrative younger viewing audience, who loved its cynical, sometimes surreal, and borderline misanthropic humor. After finishing Season 1 and working through Season 2 with steady if not revolutionary numbers, NBC called back and agreed to put Jerry back into their primetime lineup. It managed to pull in steady and growing numbers, but never broke out into the Top Five, even while it continued to be an awards-darling[2].

By the time Season 5 rolled around, star Jason Alexander was receiving more and more character roles in Hollywood, Julia Louis-Dreyfus was getting offers from other TV producers, and Jerry and Larry were starting to see the writing on the wall. They agreed to a Season 6, this time without “George” and with Wayne Knight’s melodramatic Newman filling in the gap, but even MGM and As You Wish knew that time had run out. The show ended with a modest finale in the fall of 1995, but its influence lived on.

Jerry is cited by dozens of other writers, producers, and comedians as an inspiration. The concept of the long-running show Friends Like Us, for example, showed a direct influence from Jerry: it was six neurotic young people living in New York City and experiencing the trials of daily life, with many Jerry fans referring to it (generally sympathetically) as “Jerry Lite” or (more dismissively) as “Jerry for Dummies”.

Jerry and Larry would go on to found J&L Productions, working closely with As You Wish, Witt/Thomas/Harris, BrooksTV, MGM-Hyperion, and other producers, and are behind some of TV’s most famous and beloved shows of the ‘90s, ‘00s, and present day. Jerry’s supporting actors have gone on to good post-Jerry careers and the show has gained a new following in recent years through direct viewing, where its genius has been belatedly recognized, even as some ironically call it cliched since so many of the tropes and premises it created have gone on to become industry standards.

Not bad for a show about nothing.


[1] True in our timeline too!

[2] Like our timeline’s 30 Rock, Jerry will be one of those highly influential, award-winning comedies with a modest but fanatical following that inspires a hundred shows to follow, rather than a legendary “Greatest Show of All Time” breakout hit. This is largely because of the lack of Michael Richards’ Kramer, whose physicality and over-the-top humor made the show more immediately appreciable to larger audiences while this one, with Kramer being a more comedically dislikable character, will be “ahead of its time” and have a more niche audience.
 
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With how this thing is looking and what's been going on with NBC ITTL so far, Disney will buy out NBC much as they did with ABC IOTL, methinks.

I'll stay tuned for it!
 
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For J. Jonah Jameson, I can easily picture Kurtwood Smith as him. Just look at a certain Wisconsin dad and you'll see what I mean.

Also, one idea I had for a Spider-Man adaptation was making Peter a conspiracy theorist and drawing allusion between the strings he makes and his webs, as well as going with the idea of how conspiracy theorists are irresoibsible to assume you know what's really going on.
Or R. Lee Ermey:
biAPaH.jpg


Idea gotten from this fan cast list, this I think works for the most part:

Several other fan cast lists:
Or you could cast Bill Paxton, like I did in Iron Age. I think he could really chew the scenery as jolly JJJ. :p

Looking at the fan casting from IMDB, I also thing it works somewhat as many of the actors listed regularly collaborated with Cameron. Earl Boen (AKA Dr. Silberman) as Uncle Ben is an interesting choice though I went for Joe Morton as Robbie Robertson in IA and cast Arnie as Doc Ock because, why not?

As for Mary Jane and Gwen Stacy, I would probably approach them from a "Betty and Veronica" angle with MJ being the popular party girl--incorporating elements of Liz Allan--and Gwen as the more down to Earth girl with an unrequited crush pop Pete that slowly blossoms into a doomed romance. Also, I would probably go with Lance Hennriksen as as Norman Osborn as a supporting character and slowly build him as the ultimate super-villain. Also, I wonder who would be Harry Osborn and Flash Thompson. If you wanted a little more diversity, throw in Randy Robertson as well.
 
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