A Hippie in the House of Mouse (Jim Henson at Disney, 1980)

[GrahamB]

none the less

Should be "much less". Just a quick edit for a similar term that has the entirely wrong meaning.
Nonetheless (one word) = in spite of, "The pickles were poisoned, but tasty nonetheless"
Much Less (two words) = bridge between a bad thing and an even worse thing, "Who would even eat dill pickles, much less ones you knew were poisoned?"
A nitpick, I know, but it made my brain's gearbox grind until I figured out what the issue was.

Great update, I like being reminded of movies I didn't remember seeing until I see the movie poster. Speaking of, I'm genuinely surprised the poster for Mouse Detective was so.... basic.

 

[nick_crenshaw82]

Triad Takes on the Big Three in Television
From The Hollywood Reporter, October 21st, 1985

The Triad Entertainment Group (formerly Gulf+Western) has announced the launch of a new network television channel, the Paramount Fox Network, or PFN. The group, which has acquired several independent UHF channels including the Metromedia network, plans a rapid expansion into the free TV space in direct competition with ABC, CBS, and NBC. Industry experts are divided on whether this plan can work given the long-held dominance of the Big Three and the reduced range and quality associated with UHF television. The channel plans an aggressive schedule of original programming and syndication.

Are there any suggestions for their debut schedule? @Geekhis Khan told me they would launch in fall of 1986 (I like sometime in September). Using Fox as a bases that mean The Late Show with Joan Rivers at 11:00 pm on weekdays.

Some ideas I had could be A Current Affair on Sundays at 10:30 or 11:00 pm. Maybe WWF Superstars of Wrestling on Saturdays (does anyone remember what timeslot this was originally aired in in your local area). PFN could also pick up T.J. Hooker, Diff'rent Strokes, The Fall Guy, Charlie & Co. andTrapper John M.D. to prevent their cancellation. Also they could decide to keep 9 to 5 out of syndication and air it on PFN.

 

[TheFaultsofAlts]

Are there any suggestions for their debut schedule?

Maybe the likes of Married... With Children and/or Platypus Man get made earlier than IOTL? And yes, the latter series does, in fact, exist.

And let's be honest with ourselves. It would be surprising if the next era of Star Trek DIDN'T appear on this network!

 

[TheMolluskLingers]

Do you suppose, ITTL, Steven Spielberg will get to make his version of Cats? The ideas he came up with were certainly better than what we eventually got in 2019.

Why Steven Spielberg's Animated Adaptation Of 'Cats' Never Made It Past Development

Revisiting the forgotten history of the unmade animated version of "Cats." The project passed through different styles, teams, and countries, before collapsing.

www.cartoonbrew.com

 

[nick_crenshaw82]

Maybe the likes of Married... With Children and/or Platypus Man get made earlier than IOTL?

The first one maybe but not the second, nine years is way to early.

And let's be honest with ourselves. It would be surprising if the next era of Star Trek DIDN'T appear on this network!

Of course, but not until the fall of 1987.

 

[Geekhis Khan]

Would like to see more Oz books hit the Big Screen, as they were nothing like _Wizard of Oz_, seems that your film was a mash of Marvelous Land and Ozma, too much for one movie

Return to Oz ITTL is pretty much what we got IOTL. Yes, based on MLoO and OoO, as in OTL

Good mix of films there. Nothing I'd have gone to see at the cinema, but would maybe have caught on video later.

Wonder if Cocoon will start a trend of sutble, low-sfx sci-fi - as in no huge flashy space battles/model work, just more terrestrial stuff?

Return to Oz does sound like a stinker.

Coccoon was a product of an '80s love of not-evil aliens that followed ET, but rther than an ET clone it was its own thing. It's a good movie and worth seeing IMO.

Return to Oz isn't a bad movie, but the above review is representative of the buzz it got IOTL and TTL. I'm OK with it. Pure nightmare fuel more in keeping with the darker aspects of th books rather than the cheery, lovingly campy tone of the '39 film. People went in expecting one thing and got another, so it performed poorly. But a lot of people love it and it's a cult classic today. IOTL it had Brian Henson doing the effects.

Should be "much less". Just a quick edit for a similar term that has the entirely wrong meaning.
Nonetheless (one word) = in spite of, "The pickles were poisoned, but tasty nonetheless"
Much Less (two words) = bridge between a bad thing and an even worse thing, "Who would even eat dill pickles, much less ones you knew were poisoned?"
A nitpick, I know, but it made my brain's gearbox grind until I figured out what the issue was.

Great update, I like being reminded of movies I didn't remember seeing until I see the movie poster. Speaking of, I'm genuinely surprised the poster for Mouse Detective was so.... basic.

Not a problem. I always fall back into bad habbits and it's good to get reminded. Nitpick away.

Yea, the original poster was not too exciting. I see the poster for Elementary! to feature Basil up front in his Sherlock outfit with the title in red, big, and sort of wrapping around him while Ratigan looms overhead andh te others are in the background.

Do you suppose, ITTL, Steven Spielberg will get to make his version of Cats? The ideas he came up with were certainly better than what we eventually got in 2019.

Why Steven Spielberg's Animated Adaptation Of 'Cats' Never Made It Past Development

Revisiting the forgotten history of the unmade animated version of "Cats." The project passed through different styles, teams, and countries, before collapsing.

www.cartoonbrew.com

I can look into it. I literally can't do worse than OTL. Do you want an A**hole cut or no-A**holes cut?

 

[Plateosaurus]

Considering all the OTL bad or mediocre films that are at least better here, I wonder if we'll see a film that's at least good IOTL but because of butterflies turns out to be bad, like gob-smackingly, Last Airbender and Battlefield Earth bad, that not even Jim can save. Or there is one, and I missed/forgot it.

 

[Nathanoraptor]

Considering all the OTL bad or mediocre films that are at least better here, I wonder if we'll see a film that's at least good IOTL but because of butterflies turns out to be bad, like gob-smackingly, Last Airbender and Battlefield Earth bad, that not even Jim can save. Or there is one, and I missed/forgot it.

Or one that was a stinker OTL and remains a stinker.

 

[HonestAbe1809]

Or one that was a stinker OTL and remains a stinker.

I'd prefer this option rather than sacrificing a good movie for the sake of trying to make it a zero-sum game.

 

[Plateosaurus]

Or one that was a stinker OTL and remains a stinker.

Baby is one I can name here.

I'd prefer this option rather than sacrificing a good movie for the sake of trying to make it a zero-sum game.

Geekhis and us can do both, y'know.

Also, how are say, Terminator and Alien doing ITTL?

 

[Geekhis Khan]

Considering all the OTL bad or mediocre films that are at least better here, I wonder if we'll see a film that's at least good IOTL but because of butterflies turns out to be bad, like gob-smackingly, Last Airbender and Battlefield Earth bad, that not even Jim can save. Or there is one, and I missed/forgot it.

Or one that was a stinker OTL and remains a stinker.

I'd prefer this option rather than sacrificing a good movie for the sake of trying to make it a zero-sum game.

Baby is one I can name here.


Geekhis and us can do both, y'know.

Also, how are say, Terminator and Alien doing ITTL?

"Good" is a subjective thing, of course, but in general something that was popular IOTL can be a flop ITTL, or a midling success, or vice versa. And things can be critically beloved or not differently than OTL.

So far ITTL Tron and The Dark Crystal went from underperforming to midling performance, Black Cauldron went from flop to midling performance, The Bureau was a worse flop than OTL but got critical and awards buzz because of the downer ending, Howard the Duck went from flop to midling, Baby stayed a flop, Beverly Hills Cop went from blockbuster to midling without Eddie Murphy, and most kind of stayed roughly the same (for example Indy II, Ghostbusters, and Back to the Future remained hits, but sold fewer tickets since they all came out the same year).

Alien was released before the POD so it is unaffected (absolutely the same as OTL). Terminator made a little less money than IOTL due to competition from BttF, but was still very successful (call it $69 million vs. $78M IOTL). As such, Cameron is still on deck for Aliens, which is I assume the follow-on question.

 

[wietze]

hmmm maybe later on JMS can do Babylon 5 for disney TV, and in the 5 season layout he envisioned (not theotl 5S reduced to 4 s, with another season slapped on)

 

[nick_crenshaw82]

hmmm maybe later on JMS can do Babylon 5 for disney TV, and in the 5 season layout he envisioned (not theotl 5S reduced to 4 s, with another season slapped on)

Only if a different production company works on it ITTL.

 

[nick_crenshaw82]

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine and Paramount plagiarism controversy​

Straczynski indicated that Paramount Television was aware of his concept as early as 1989, when he attempted to sell the show to the studio, and provided them with the series bible, pilot script, artwork, lengthy character background histories, and plot synopses for 22 "or so planned episodes taken from the overall course of the planned series".

Paramount declined to produce Babylon 5, but later announced Star Trek: Deep Space Nine was in development, two months after Warner Bros. announced its plans for Babylon 5. Unlike previous Star Trek shows, Deep Space Nine was based on a space station, and had themes similar to those of Babylon 5, which drew some to compare it with Babylon 5. Straczynski stated that, even though he was confident that Deep Space Nine producer/creators Rick Berman and Michael Piller had not seen this material, he suspected that Paramount executives used his bible and scripts to steer development of Deep Space Nine. Straczynski and Warner did not file suit against Paramount, largely because he believed it would negatively affect both TV series. He argued the same when confronted by claims that the lack of legal action was proof that his allegation was unfounded. According to a 2017 interview with Patricia Tallman, there was a legal case and an out-of-court settlement with Paramount.

In light of this info I kinda hope Triad does pick up this show ITTL, maybe call it Star Trek: Babylon.

 

[GrahamB]

Do you suppose, ITTL, Steven Spielberg will get to make his version of Cats? The ideas he came up with were certainly better than what we eventually got in 2019.

Why Steven Spielberg's Animated Adaptation Of 'Cats' Never Made It Past Development

Revisiting the forgotten history of the unmade animated version of "Cats." The project passed through different styles, teams, and countries, before collapsing.

www.cartoonbrew.com

Since the perennial problem with adapting Cats to film is the anthology/musical nature of the poems and stage show, which does not translate well to a coherent plot, taking a page (pun intended, as you will see) from the Winnie the Pooh films and shorts from this timeline and leaning into that aspect might be the way to go:

Our film begins with a grand book of "Old Possum's Book of Practical Cats", by T.S. Eliot, introduced by a never-seen narrator (very classic Disney style).
The book opens to one or another of the various illustrated poems, which is brought to life by animation. The running joke of the whole film is while the narrator might like to read the poems "as intended", the cats themselves have other ideas, invariably interrupting our poor narrator and doing things "their way" with musical numbers and interacting with the book 'environment' (like Macavity slinking between the lines of the poem to hide in the page fold before invading another poem entirely).

Given Spielberg's friendship with Henson, there's an opportunity to get Cats made for Disney rather than running into the OTL difficulties at Amblimation. At the very least doing it at Disney lets you add some referential jokes like "A narrator in a picture book, really? What do I look like, a stuffed BEAR?!"

 

[TheFaultsofAlts]

Since the perennial problem with adapting Cats to film is the anthology/musical nature of the poems and stage show, which does not translate well to a coherent plot, taking a page (pun intended, as you will see) from the Winnie the Pooh films and shorts from this timeline and leaning into that aspect might be the way to go:

Our film begins with a grand book of "Old Possum's Book of Practical Cats", by T.S. Eliot, introduced by a never-seen narrator (very classic Disney style).
The book opens to one or another of the various illustrated poems, which is brought to life by animation. The running joke of the whole film is while the narrator might like to read the poems "as intended", the cats themselves have other ideas, invariably interrupting our poor narrator and doing thing "their way" with musical numbers and interacting with the book 'environment' (like Macavity slinking between the lines of the poem to hide in the page fold before invading another poem entirely).

Given Spielberg's friendship with Henson, there's an opportunity to get Cats made for Disney rather than running into the OTL difficulties at Amblimation. At the very least doing it at Disney lets you add some referential jokes like "A narrator in a picture book, really? What do I look like, a stuffed BEAR?!"

This. All of this. PLEASE! Even having it as a Disney film and directly mocking some of the company's characters!

In fact, if it were to be a Disney animated adaptation, would we see one of these cats try to maul Mickey Mouse? Or would that be too risque of a reference?

 

[Workable Goblin]

This. All of this. PLEASE! Even having it as a Disney film and directly mocking some of the company's characters!

In fact, if it were to be a Disney animated adaptation, would we see one of these cats try to maul Mickey Mouse? Or would that be too risque of a reference?

"Risqué" isn't really the right word here, that carries sexual connotations that I don't think will occur to anyone who isn't a fan of vore. "Dangerous" is probably better. In any case, I don't think it would happen--not quite so obviously as having a cat chewing on Mickey, anyway, if only because Mickey suddenly showing up to get eaten would be jarring. You might see a cat chewing on a mouse, which is probably enough to get the idea across...

 

[TheMolluskLingers]

Since the perennial problem with adapting Cats to film is the anthology/musical nature of the poems and stage show, which does not translate well to a coherent plot, taking a page (pun intended, as you will see) from the Winnie the Pooh films and shorts from this timeline and leaning into that aspect might be the way to go:

Our film begins with a grand book of "Old Possum's Book of Practical Cats", by T.S. Eliot, introduced by a never-seen narrator (very classic Disney style).
The book opens to one or another of the various illustrated poems, which is brought to life by animation. The running joke of the whole film is while the narrator might like to read the poems "as intended", the cats themselves have other ideas, invariably interrupting our poor narrator and doing thing "their way" with musical numbers and interacting with the book 'environment' (like Macavity slinking between the lines of the poem to hide in the page fold before invading another poem entirely).

Given Spielberg's friendship with Henson, there's an opportunity to get Cats made for Disney rather than running into the OTL difficulties at Amblimation. At the very least doing it at Disney lets you add some referential jokes like "A narrator in a picture book, really? What do I look like, a stuffed BEAR?!"

Grahm's got the idea there, @Geekhis Khan.

 

[nick_crenshaw82]

While I know we still have about 8/9 years until Babylon 5 I still want to share several PoDs for the show ITTL in whichever form it takes:

18 Dark Secrets Behind Babylon 5 Even Die-Hard Fans Don't Know

For five years, Babylon 5 offered a look at the future unlike anything seen before or since. Learn the dark secrets behind this legendary series.

screenrant.com

 

[Pesterfield]

You might see a cat chewing on a mouse, which is probably enough to get the idea across...

A good place for Disney mice would be the Old Gumbie Cat.
The cat catches the mice then she lines them up and teaches them music, crocheting, and tatting.

The Siamese cats could appear in Growltiger's Last Stand.

Basil might have a cameo in Macavity, he's even called the Napoleon of Crime.