So, I've recently been listening to an audiobook version of Who Censored Roger Rabbit, and that got me to thinking: will we get a more faithful text-to-screen adaptation, as the original plans for the film intended IOTL? As much as I love Who Framed Roger Rabbit, the idea of a more faithful take on the book is an intriguing one.
A Hippie in the House of Mouse (Jim Henson at Disney, 1980)
- Thread starter Geekhis Khan
- Start date
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I take it that the Wuzzles and Adventures of the Gummi Bears are butterflied from existence since the former was an Eisner pitch. That makes me worry a bit about Ducktales as it was my favourite show during my early years, which also prompts me to ask: will Disney produce any series for syndication?
Gummi Bears could still happen, sort of. If you looked at the human protagonist cast, it was clearly a reskinning of The Black Cauldron, The Animated Series. I keep imagining High King Taran with Zummi or Granny as his personal arcane advisor. Not so sure Tim Burton's art style will translate as well to Saturday Mornings.
I'm glad you liked it, and no need to appologize or clarify on the critiques or corrections, as I welcome both. There will definately be more posts like this one, there will be short synopsis posts, and longer synopsises, particularly when the changes are significant. Some will certainly prefer cerain types over the others.
Roger Rabbit will come up, certainly. And while I;ve never read the original book, I've read a synopsis and yea, totally different!
Wuzzles and Gummi Bears both grew out of Michael Eisner. GB in particular were his idea since one of his kids loved the candy. What will come of them ITTL? Stay tuned. 📺
Here's the audiobook I've been listening to:
It really is a completely different beast, one I'm not ashamed to say I like more than the movie.
This idea ITTL could be really cool.
Does this mean that John Lithgow will play Judge Doom?
I found this funny.
Last edited:
I can’t really see Lithgow pulling off Doom. Especially not manical Toon Doom. And if we’re going to have a Roger Rabbit without Lloyd I’d say that Curry’s casting would more than make up for it. Frankly he’s perfect, as the character is literally a cartoon villain in human guise.
Part V: The Visionary and the Vizier
Part V: The Visionary and The Vizier
“If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together.” – African proverb
Introduction: The Exceptions to the Rule
Excerpt from The Visionary and the Vizier, Jim Henson and Frank Wells at Disney, by Derek N. Dedominos[1], MBA.
The 1980s were the era of the Celebrity CEO: the “front man” for a company (and it was almost always a man), as famous as his products. By being the face of the brand, he became the brand. Famous both in the business world and in the living rooms of America, the Celebrity CEO was inseparably associated with the company that he ran, whether he was the one who founded it or not.
Several names come to mind when one talks of Celebrity CEOs: Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Lee Iacocca, Ray Kroc, George Steinbrenner, Michael Eisner. One name conspicuously not on that list: Ron Miller, CEO of Walt Disney Entertainment, who was the son-in-law of Walt Disney, the original Celebrity CEO.
Instead of Miller, two other men became the names most associated with the Disney brand in the 1980s: Jim Henson, Studio President and CCO, and Frank Wells, Company President and COO. The former became the household face of the company on Main Street and the latter became the corporate face of the company on Wall Street. One would lead the creative endeavors of the company through its corporate renaissance, and the other would turn the once-failing company into a strong corporate presence. One was the guiding light of the company whose creative vision was rarely rejected, and the other was the de facto ruler of the company, its de jura CEO Ron Miller inevitably acting on Frank’s “advice”.
They were the Visionary and the Vizier.
Jim Henson, the Visionary, was the creator of the Muppets[2] and founder, Chairman, and CEO of Henson Associates right up to its absorption by Walt Disney in 1984. A “Gentle Giant”, tall, sweet, and kind, Henson had a good head for business, but inevitably preferred the creative side of things. He was a lot like Walt Disney, to whom he was often compared. Both spent their formative childhoods in the Mississippi delta, both were founders of a creative empire, both were as famous in front of the camera as they were behind it, and both endeavored to put the artistic merits of a production ahead of short-term financial goals.
Jim Henson was beloved by his employees and inspired them to achieve great things. He urged people to enjoy their work and to see it as fun in its own right, and he led by example in those respects. He worked hard, played hard, and, like a modern-day Will Rogers, generally got along with everybody he met.
Frank Wells, the Vizier, by contrast, was a quiet, unassuming man. Studious, business-minded, efficient, and straight-forward, Wells came across more as a mild-mannered accountant than an aggressive executive of an entertainment company. He cared less about the creative side of things, seeing that as his weak point, and was content to leave that to others. He was friendly, professional, modest, considerate, and grounded. Crucially, he was willing to listen to others and their opposing opinions, and then seek consensus. And yet, his unassuming, modest exterior hid one of the more powerful, ambitious, and strategic minds in the industry. It is fitting that throughout the 1980s his principle non-business goal was to climb to the summit of the tallest mountain on each continent, not for the glory or notoriety, but simply for the personal challenge and sense of accomplishment that came with it.
Wells was content to sit in the background, allowing Ron Miller to claim the throne and Jim Henson to command the spotlight, while Wells wielded the true strings of power like a benign despot. His fingerprints were soon on everything, driving new efficiency efforts from top to bottom and imbuing strategic thinking in the company management at all levels. He was held back in this effort only by Miller’s penchant for defending Old Disney’s customer-focused image and traditions and by Henson’s creative needs. Even Chairman of the Board Ray Watson soon recognized the quiet power and influence of Frank Wells, whom he dubbed the “Viceroy” to Miller’s “Prince”. Watson soon declared the power-sharing arrangement between him, Miller, and Wells, as the “new troika”, a reference to the previous “troika” rule of the company by Roy O. Disney, E. Cardon Walker, and Donn Tatum following Walt Disney’s death in 1966.
Perhaps he should have called it a quadrumvirate, for Jim Henson’s soft power with the board and the employees alike was, in many ways, stronger than Watson’s and Miller’s direct authority over either. Watson ultimately acknowledged this soft Henson power around the time that he stepped down from the Chairmanship in 1985, a role that he had always viewed as a temporary stewardship. After Watson handed the Chairman’s seat to Wells, he started referring to the new management arrangement as the “third troika”, belatedly recognizing Henson’s indelible influence over the corporate strategy.
Former CEO and Chairman E. Cardon Walker echoed this troika idea. A former Navy man, he put things in naval terms: Miller was the friendly Commanding Officer (CO), “the father to his men”, Wells was the distant, disciplinarian Executive Officer (XO) who kept the ship running smoothly, and Henson was the Navigator, plotting the strategic course ahead.
And yet I would call it a diarchy, for increasingly Jim Henson and Frank Wells would rule the company while CEO Ron Miller was slowly becoming little more than a figurehead.
Diarchy or troika, the new paradigm worked. Henson would handle the creative side of things while Wells handled the business side of things. Wells’ “yin” of grounded business pragmatism offered the perfect counterweight to Henson’s far-reaching creative “yang”. Wells reigned in the more radical and impractical of Henson’s creative impulses while Henson took risks and pushed the company forward in innovative and groundbreaking ways, unable to be fully tied down by Wells’ tight purse strings.
It was, fittingly, an arrangement not too different from the original one forged between Walt Disney and his business-minded brother Roy[3].
[1] His wife Laila was an executive at Yardbird Dairy Corp., where she ran the Cream Division.
[2] Poor Jane…always the forgotten founder.
[3] The relationship between Michael Eisner and Frank Wells often received this same comparison in our timeline.
“If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together.” – African proverb
Introduction: The Exceptions to the Rule
Excerpt from The Visionary and the Vizier, Jim Henson and Frank Wells at Disney, by Derek N. Dedominos[1], MBA.
The 1980s were the era of the Celebrity CEO: the “front man” for a company (and it was almost always a man), as famous as his products. By being the face of the brand, he became the brand. Famous both in the business world and in the living rooms of America, the Celebrity CEO was inseparably associated with the company that he ran, whether he was the one who founded it or not.
Several names come to mind when one talks of Celebrity CEOs: Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Lee Iacocca, Ray Kroc, George Steinbrenner, Michael Eisner. One name conspicuously not on that list: Ron Miller, CEO of Walt Disney Entertainment, who was the son-in-law of Walt Disney, the original Celebrity CEO.
Instead of Miller, two other men became the names most associated with the Disney brand in the 1980s: Jim Henson, Studio President and CCO, and Frank Wells, Company President and COO. The former became the household face of the company on Main Street and the latter became the corporate face of the company on Wall Street. One would lead the creative endeavors of the company through its corporate renaissance, and the other would turn the once-failing company into a strong corporate presence. One was the guiding light of the company whose creative vision was rarely rejected, and the other was the de facto ruler of the company, its de jura CEO Ron Miller inevitably acting on Frank’s “advice”.
They were the Visionary and the Vizier.
Jim Henson, the Visionary, was the creator of the Muppets[2] and founder, Chairman, and CEO of Henson Associates right up to its absorption by Walt Disney in 1984. A “Gentle Giant”, tall, sweet, and kind, Henson had a good head for business, but inevitably preferred the creative side of things. He was a lot like Walt Disney, to whom he was often compared. Both spent their formative childhoods in the Mississippi delta, both were founders of a creative empire, both were as famous in front of the camera as they were behind it, and both endeavored to put the artistic merits of a production ahead of short-term financial goals.
Jim Henson was beloved by his employees and inspired them to achieve great things. He urged people to enjoy their work and to see it as fun in its own right, and he led by example in those respects. He worked hard, played hard, and, like a modern-day Will Rogers, generally got along with everybody he met.
Frank Wells, the Vizier, by contrast, was a quiet, unassuming man. Studious, business-minded, efficient, and straight-forward, Wells came across more as a mild-mannered accountant than an aggressive executive of an entertainment company. He cared less about the creative side of things, seeing that as his weak point, and was content to leave that to others. He was friendly, professional, modest, considerate, and grounded. Crucially, he was willing to listen to others and their opposing opinions, and then seek consensus. And yet, his unassuming, modest exterior hid one of the more powerful, ambitious, and strategic minds in the industry. It is fitting that throughout the 1980s his principle non-business goal was to climb to the summit of the tallest mountain on each continent, not for the glory or notoriety, but simply for the personal challenge and sense of accomplishment that came with it.
Wells was content to sit in the background, allowing Ron Miller to claim the throne and Jim Henson to command the spotlight, while Wells wielded the true strings of power like a benign despot. His fingerprints were soon on everything, driving new efficiency efforts from top to bottom and imbuing strategic thinking in the company management at all levels. He was held back in this effort only by Miller’s penchant for defending Old Disney’s customer-focused image and traditions and by Henson’s creative needs. Even Chairman of the Board Ray Watson soon recognized the quiet power and influence of Frank Wells, whom he dubbed the “Viceroy” to Miller’s “Prince”. Watson soon declared the power-sharing arrangement between him, Miller, and Wells, as the “new troika”, a reference to the previous “troika” rule of the company by Roy O. Disney, E. Cardon Walker, and Donn Tatum following Walt Disney’s death in 1966.
Perhaps he should have called it a quadrumvirate, for Jim Henson’s soft power with the board and the employees alike was, in many ways, stronger than Watson’s and Miller’s direct authority over either. Watson ultimately acknowledged this soft Henson power around the time that he stepped down from the Chairmanship in 1985, a role that he had always viewed as a temporary stewardship. After Watson handed the Chairman’s seat to Wells, he started referring to the new management arrangement as the “third troika”, belatedly recognizing Henson’s indelible influence over the corporate strategy.
Former CEO and Chairman E. Cardon Walker echoed this troika idea. A former Navy man, he put things in naval terms: Miller was the friendly Commanding Officer (CO), “the father to his men”, Wells was the distant, disciplinarian Executive Officer (XO) who kept the ship running smoothly, and Henson was the Navigator, plotting the strategic course ahead.
And yet I would call it a diarchy, for increasingly Jim Henson and Frank Wells would rule the company while CEO Ron Miller was slowly becoming little more than a figurehead.
Diarchy or troika, the new paradigm worked. Henson would handle the creative side of things while Wells handled the business side of things. Wells’ “yin” of grounded business pragmatism offered the perfect counterweight to Henson’s far-reaching creative “yang”. Wells reigned in the more radical and impractical of Henson’s creative impulses while Henson took risks and pushed the company forward in innovative and groundbreaking ways, unable to be fully tied down by Wells’ tight purse strings.
It was, fittingly, an arrangement not too different from the original one forged between Walt Disney and his business-minded brother Roy[3].
[1] His wife Laila was an executive at Yardbird Dairy Corp., where she ran the Cream Division.
[2] Poor Jane…always the forgotten founder.
[3] The relationship between Michael Eisner and Frank Wells often received this same comparison in our timeline.
Looking forward to where this New Disney takes us creatively in the future, and what properties come from it, esp those different to OTL.
Also to seeing what effects this Disney has on the rest of the entertainment and possibly the political landscape.
Wishing this Troika well and long lives.
More please @Geekhis Khan more!
Also to seeing what effects this Disney has on the rest of the entertainment and possibly the political landscape.
Wishing this Troika well and long lives.
More please @Geekhis Khan more!
I've got an idea for the inevitable Batman movie. Namely having a brief appearance of Edward Nygma to set up the Riddler being a future villain like how an appearance of Harvey Dent would set up Two-Face. And I'd cast Robin Williams as Nygma.
@nick_crenshaw82, it's nearing Halloween, and I figured I'd post something scary. I just posted it in the wrestling thread...
The Black Cauldron
The Cauldron of Nightmares!! (1984)
Video from revamped Nostalgia was Way Better when I was a Kid Netsite, Oct. 21st, 2007
Exterior – Spiral Castle – Nighttime (Animation)
We see the dark visage of Spiral Castle in the background. Lightning flashes. Thunder crashes over an ominous score. A deep-voiced Narrator describes the setting.
(Image source “scrooge-mcduck.fandom.com”)
Lightning flashes, CUT TO:
Interior – Larry’s Study
Larry, host and writer for the net show, sits behind a desk in front of all of his nerdy books and toys. Figures of Taran, Gurgi, and Princess Eilonwy sit on the desk in front of him. His jaunty theme music plays in the background.
Creepy fanfare music plays; title card of the episode name superimposes briefly.
Exterior – Caer Dallben – Daytime (Animation)
Taran sits next to the inquisitive pig Hen Wen, pushing his long, shaggy hair out of his eyes.
Hen Wen squeals sympathetically. Scene cuts to other clips of the movie, which play silently as Larry describes them in voiceover.
Interior – Eilonwy’s Tent (Animation)
Taran awakes and starts to explore the tent.
Taran screams, causing Gurgi to scream.
(Image source “andreasdeja.blogspot.com”)
Exterior – Spiral Castle – Daytime (Animation)
Taran, Eilonwy, Ellidyr, and Gurgi sneak into the diabolical Spiral Castle. Clips change in accordance with the voiceover descriptions.
(Image source “andreasdeja.blogspot.com”)
Interior – Dungeons and Queen Achren’s Laboratory (Animation)
We see Queen Achren interacting with Eilonwy. It cuts later to the dungeon and other locations in keeping with the voiceover.
Interior – Spiral Castle – Horned King’s Room (Animation)
Eilonwy and Gurgi look through a hidden spy hole into the room of the Viking-like Horned King, who has a crystal ball. He then transforms in a scary sequence into the spectral, skeletal Arawan, Death-Lord, and summons the image of three witches on the crystal ball.
(Image source “cafans.b-cdn.net”)
Interior – Spiral Castle – Dungeons (Animation)
Scenes below the castle are shown in succession.
Exterior – Fairy Land – Perpetual Twilight (Animation)
The five heroes encounter various mystical, and slightly sinister, elves, fairies, sprites, and other fair folk.
Brian Froud Faeries (Image source "capilanou.ca")
Exterior – Marshes of Morva – Nighttime (Animation)
The five heroes wander the marsh and encounter the three witches, Orddu, Orwen and Orgoch.
(Image source “andreasdeja.blogspot.com”)
Exterior – Wilderness and Spiral Castle – Dawn (Animation)
The five heroes drag the eponymous cauldron, but are attacked by Gwythaints.
(Image source “auctionzip.com”)
Interior – The Cauldron Room (Animation)
The five heroes reenter the castle and get to the cauldron room. In a spectacular animation and effects scene, Arawan uses the magic of the cauldron and the dead come back to life and engage, and kill, the living soldiers on both sides, who also rise as cauldron born.
Interior – Larry’s Study
Larry is back at his desk.
Larry sits back, pretending to cry for a moment.
For a brief second, highlighted by a scream effect, some of this concept art is flashed on the screen.
[Theme music plays and video ends]
[1] Notably better than in our timeline, but hardly a major blockbuster and far below Ron Miller’s dreams of reinvigorating Disney Animation. Having a unique look and a central guiding vision has produced a “better” picture, but the dark, un-Disneylike tone is still holding it back. It will be another “cult classic” in this timeline, the “unappreciated gem” for many. It will be remembered for being an early cinematic look at Tim Burton.
Video from revamped Nostalgia was Way Better when I was a Kid Netsite, Oct. 21st, 2007
Exterior – Spiral Castle – Nighttime (Animation)
We see the dark visage of Spiral Castle in the background. Lightning flashes. Thunder crashes over an ominous score. A deep-voiced Narrator describes the setting.
(Image source “scrooge-mcduck.fandom.com”)
Narrator
Long ago, in the land of Prydain, evil lurked. The fearsome Horned King, servant of the diabolical Arawn, Death-Lord, has unleashed terror upon the men and women of the land. The terror of…The Black Cauldron!!
Long ago, in the land of Prydain, evil lurked. The fearsome Horned King, servant of the diabolical Arawn, Death-Lord, has unleashed terror upon the men and women of the land. The terror of…The Black Cauldron!!
Lightning flashes, CUT TO:
Interior – Larry’s Study
Larry, host and writer for the net show, sits behind a desk in front of all of his nerdy books and toys. Figures of Taran, Gurgi, and Princess Eilonwy sit on the desk in front of him. His jaunty theme music plays in the background.
Larry
Hi, I’m Larry, and “Nostalgia was Way Better when I was a Kid”. And today we’re dipping once again into the endless well of nightmare juice that was Disney in the 1980s. Specifically, we’re talking about The Black Cauldron.
Hi, I’m Larry, and “Nostalgia was Way Better when I was a Kid”. And today we’re dipping once again into the endless well of nightmare juice that was Disney in the 1980s. Specifically, we’re talking about The Black Cauldron.
Creepy fanfare music plays; title card of the episode name superimposes briefly.
Larry (Cont’d)
Distilled from the warped minds of Brian “I made fairies scary again” Froud and Tim “even my puppies are terrifying” Burton, 1984’s The Black Cauldron brings the world of Lloyd Alexanders’ Chronicles of Prydain books to un-life. And yes, nightmares…I mean spoilers ahead, children.
Distilled from the warped minds of Brian “I made fairies scary again” Froud and Tim “even my puppies are terrifying” Burton, 1984’s The Black Cauldron brings the world of Lloyd Alexanders’ Chronicles of Prydain books to un-life. And yes, nightmares…I mean spoilers ahead, children.
Exterior – Caer Dallben – Daytime (Animation)
Taran sits next to the inquisitive pig Hen Wen, pushing his long, shaggy hair out of his eyes.
Taran
It’s not fair, Hen Wen. In my heart of hearts, I am a warrior borne, but my status leaves me but a keeper of pigs…no offense.
It’s not fair, Hen Wen. In my heart of hearts, I am a warrior borne, but my status leaves me but a keeper of pigs…no offense.
Hen Wen squeals sympathetically. Scene cuts to other clips of the movie, which play silently as Larry describes them in voiceover.
Larry (Voiceover)
The adventure begins with our big eyed, small mouthed, angst-ridden protagonist Taran, an assistant pig keeper who looks after a psychic pig who can see into the future. When said pig naturally escapes because Taran is busy playing soldier, Taran sets out to find the pig, but naturally gets caught up in the middle of a big battle alongside the forces of the noble Prince Gwydion, who are ambushed by (dramatic voice) The Living Deeaaddd! [dramatic fanfare plays] Taran is knocked unconscious by a skeletal warrior and wakes up in a tent.
The adventure begins with our big eyed, small mouthed, angst-ridden protagonist Taran, an assistant pig keeper who looks after a psychic pig who can see into the future. When said pig naturally escapes because Taran is busy playing soldier, Taran sets out to find the pig, but naturally gets caught up in the middle of a big battle alongside the forces of the noble Prince Gwydion, who are ambushed by (dramatic voice) The Living Deeaaddd! [dramatic fanfare plays] Taran is knocked unconscious by a skeletal warrior and wakes up in a tent.
Interior – Eilonwy’s Tent (Animation)
Taran awakes and starts to explore the tent.
Taran
Where am I…?
Gurgi
(crazy laugh) Awake! Awake it is!! Mistress, awake he has become!!!
Where am I…?
Gurgi
(crazy laugh) Awake! Awake it is!! Mistress, awake he has become!!!
Taran screams, causing Gurgi to scream.
(Image source “andreasdeja.blogspot.com”)
Larry (V.O.)
And this charming little hellspawn is Gurgi the beast man, who is practically the deconstruction of the “cute Disney sidekick” trope. His eyes and voice will haunt your nightmares. Gurgi is the friend and companion to the beautiful Princess Eilonwy, whom Taran naturally falls madly in love with, but can never touch – curse his commoner’s blood! And he soon meets the obnoxious Prince Ellidyr, third borne son of a minor king and a rival for the Princess’s affections, who is quick to remind him of this fact.
And this charming little hellspawn is Gurgi the beast man, who is practically the deconstruction of the “cute Disney sidekick” trope. His eyes and voice will haunt your nightmares. Gurgi is the friend and companion to the beautiful Princess Eilonwy, whom Taran naturally falls madly in love with, but can never touch – curse his commoner’s blood! And he soon meets the obnoxious Prince Ellidyr, third borne son of a minor king and a rival for the Princess’s affections, who is quick to remind him of this fact.
Exterior – Spiral Castle – Daytime (Animation)
Taran, Eilonwy, Ellidyr, and Gurgi sneak into the diabolical Spiral Castle. Clips change in accordance with the voiceover descriptions.
(Image source “andreasdeja.blogspot.com”)
Larry (V.O.)
Taran finds out that Prince Gwydion has led an army to besiege Spiral Castle, where the feared Horned King, a boisterous, brutal Viking, is using the titular Cauldron to summon armies of the dead. Not content to wait out the siege, the four decide that they should sneak into the castle and steal the cauldron themselves, thus becoming heroes. They sneak past the inevitably distracted guards to the cauldron room, but the cauldron is gone. Instead, Creeper, the Horned King’s loyal and incontinence-inducing goblin minion, finds them and they are all captured, except for Gurgi, who escapes through a hole in the wall.
Taran finds out that Prince Gwydion has led an army to besiege Spiral Castle, where the feared Horned King, a boisterous, brutal Viking, is using the titular Cauldron to summon armies of the dead. Not content to wait out the siege, the four decide that they should sneak into the castle and steal the cauldron themselves, thus becoming heroes. They sneak past the inevitably distracted guards to the cauldron room, but the cauldron is gone. Instead, Creeper, the Horned King’s loyal and incontinence-inducing goblin minion, finds them and they are all captured, except for Gurgi, who escapes through a hole in the wall.
Interior – Dungeons and Queen Achren’s Laboratory (Animation)
We see Queen Achren interacting with Eilonwy. It cuts later to the dungeon and other locations in keeping with the voiceover.
Larry (V.O.)
So, while Taran and Ellidyr are sent to the dungeon, where they will share a dank cell with the King-turned-bard-turned-comic-relief Fflewddur Fflam, Eilonwy is taken instead to the seductively evil Queen Achren, who gave many an 11-to-13-year-old boy strange feelings they couldn’t explain. The way she, erm, interacted with Eilonwy apparently also gave a certain subset of 11-to-13-year-old girls some strange feelings they couldn’t explain, too, which caught the attention of moral guardians of the time and made Queen A. the lesbian icon she remains to this day. Queen A. wants to teach Eilonwy the dark magical arts as her new apprentice, but Eilonwy resists her…let’s say professional interest. Gurgi later breaks Eilonwy out and leads her through the secret tunnels he found. She insists they go rescue their friends from the dungeon.
So, while Taran and Ellidyr are sent to the dungeon, where they will share a dank cell with the King-turned-bard-turned-comic-relief Fflewddur Fflam, Eilonwy is taken instead to the seductively evil Queen Achren, who gave many an 11-to-13-year-old boy strange feelings they couldn’t explain. The way she, erm, interacted with Eilonwy apparently also gave a certain subset of 11-to-13-year-old girls some strange feelings they couldn’t explain, too, which caught the attention of moral guardians of the time and made Queen A. the lesbian icon she remains to this day. Queen A. wants to teach Eilonwy the dark magical arts as her new apprentice, but Eilonwy resists her…let’s say professional interest. Gurgi later breaks Eilonwy out and leads her through the secret tunnels he found. She insists they go rescue their friends from the dungeon.
Interior – Spiral Castle – Horned King’s Room (Animation)
Eilonwy and Gurgi look through a hidden spy hole into the room of the Viking-like Horned King, who has a crystal ball. He then transforms in a scary sequence into the spectral, skeletal Arawan, Death-Lord, and summons the image of three witches on the crystal ball.
(Image source “cafans.b-cdn.net”)
Larry (V.O.)
Along the way they witness a diaper-as-a-prerequisite-for-viewing transformation scene, where the Horned King is revealed to be Arawan, the Death Lord, and Skeletor’s long-lost cousin. We find out that the three witches who own the cauldron have taken it back since his “time ran out” with it. He then reveals to the witches the MacGuffin-swine Hen Wen in a cage and offers the psychic pig in exchange for another turn with the cauldron. Knowing that she needs to stop both of these actions, Eilonwy sends Gurgi to rescue the boys while she sneaks in and steals back Hen Wen.
Along the way they witness a diaper-as-a-prerequisite-for-viewing transformation scene, where the Horned King is revealed to be Arawan, the Death Lord, and Skeletor’s long-lost cousin. We find out that the three witches who own the cauldron have taken it back since his “time ran out” with it. He then reveals to the witches the MacGuffin-swine Hen Wen in a cage and offers the psychic pig in exchange for another turn with the cauldron. Knowing that she needs to stop both of these actions, Eilonwy sends Gurgi to rescue the boys while she sneaks in and steals back Hen Wen.
Interior – Spiral Castle – Dungeons (Animation)
Scenes below the castle are shown in succession.
Larry (V.O.)
Gurgi breaks out Taran, Ellidyr, and the Fflam Man and they meet back up with Eilonwy, who holds Hen Wen, but the alarm is sounded. Soon they’re all backed into a crypt deep below the castle by cauldron born undead. Ellidyr tries unsuccessfully to fight them off with a rusty sword he found, but the blade does no harm to them. Meanwhile Taran, looking for his own weapon, finds the corpse of a dead king holding a sword and yanks it from the deathly grip. The sword is magic as fuck and he’s able to destroy the undead with it, finally the warrior he always wanted to be. But there are too many of them, so Gurgi leads them even deeper below the castle to a circle of ancient standing stones, which the castle was apparently built upon. He leads then between the stones and through a mystical doorway of mid ‘80s computer animation and into the magical land of the fairies to their escape.
Gurgi breaks out Taran, Ellidyr, and the Fflam Man and they meet back up with Eilonwy, who holds Hen Wen, but the alarm is sounded. Soon they’re all backed into a crypt deep below the castle by cauldron born undead. Ellidyr tries unsuccessfully to fight them off with a rusty sword he found, but the blade does no harm to them. Meanwhile Taran, looking for his own weapon, finds the corpse of a dead king holding a sword and yanks it from the deathly grip. The sword is magic as fuck and he’s able to destroy the undead with it, finally the warrior he always wanted to be. But there are too many of them, so Gurgi leads them even deeper below the castle to a circle of ancient standing stones, which the castle was apparently built upon. He leads then between the stones and through a mystical doorway of mid ‘80s computer animation and into the magical land of the fairies to their escape.
Exterior – Fairy Land – Perpetual Twilight (Animation)
The five heroes encounter various mystical, and slightly sinister, elves, fairies, sprites, and other fair folk.
Brian Froud Faeries (Image source "capilanou.ca")
Larry (V.O.)
So, it’s off to fairyland, so now we can finally hang with Tink and friends and escape the nightmare juice for a moment, right? WRONG! These are Brian Froud fairies! You thought Gurgi and Creeper are nightmare juice? Well here comes jolly ol’ King Eiddileg and his merry band of child-stealing, milk-curdling little monsters, all deliberately made over by the Uncanny Valley School of Beauty. These creepy bits of old Dark Age terror inform the heroes that not only must Arawan not reclaim the cauldron, but the witches must never claim Hen Wen or bad shit goes down. The “fair folk” agree to protect the little piggy that caused it all and to return it to Taran’s boss Dalban the Enchanter if the heroes are willing to destroy the cauldron. King Exposition of Fairyland then tells our heroes that they can find the witches and the cauldron in the Marshes of Morva.
So, it’s off to fairyland, so now we can finally hang with Tink and friends and escape the nightmare juice for a moment, right? WRONG! These are Brian Froud fairies! You thought Gurgi and Creeper are nightmare juice? Well here comes jolly ol’ King Eiddileg and his merry band of child-stealing, milk-curdling little monsters, all deliberately made over by the Uncanny Valley School of Beauty. These creepy bits of old Dark Age terror inform the heroes that not only must Arawan not reclaim the cauldron, but the witches must never claim Hen Wen or bad shit goes down. The “fair folk” agree to protect the little piggy that caused it all and to return it to Taran’s boss Dalban the Enchanter if the heroes are willing to destroy the cauldron. King Exposition of Fairyland then tells our heroes that they can find the witches and the cauldron in the Marshes of Morva.
Exterior – Marshes of Morva – Nighttime (Animation)
The five heroes wander the marsh and encounter the three witches, Orddu, Orwen and Orgoch.
(Image source “andreasdeja.blogspot.com”)
Larry (V.O.)
So, now our heroes travel to the Marshes of Morva where they encounter the three…OHMYHOLYFUCKINSHIT!!! GHAAA!! My kingdom for a Xanax!! Ahem…they now encounter the terror of the witches three, nightmare juice squeezed from your finest baby tears. Despite some “humor” with Orwen flirting with the Fflamster, the scene is creepy as fuck. They are told by the witches that they can have the cauldron, but the witches will need something in return. Orddu suggests Hen Wen, for example, but no sell. Flamboni offers his magic harp and Eilonwy a vaguely magical broach. But no, the Gods of Symbolism demand that Taran sacrifice his newfound magic sword and with it his symbolic warriorhood, which he reluctantly does. But the witches three warn that the only way to destroy the cauldron is for a living mortal to willingly sacrifice their own life by diving into it.
So, now our heroes travel to the Marshes of Morva where they encounter the three…OHMYHOLYFUCKINSHIT!!! GHAAA!! My kingdom for a Xanax!! Ahem…they now encounter the terror of the witches three, nightmare juice squeezed from your finest baby tears. Despite some “humor” with Orwen flirting with the Fflamster, the scene is creepy as fuck. They are told by the witches that they can have the cauldron, but the witches will need something in return. Orddu suggests Hen Wen, for example, but no sell. Flamboni offers his magic harp and Eilonwy a vaguely magical broach. But no, the Gods of Symbolism demand that Taran sacrifice his newfound magic sword and with it his symbolic warriorhood, which he reluctantly does. But the witches three warn that the only way to destroy the cauldron is for a living mortal to willingly sacrifice their own life by diving into it.
Exterior – Wilderness and Spiral Castle – Dawn (Animation)
The five heroes drag the eponymous cauldron, but are attacked by Gwythaints.
(Image source “auctionzip.com”)
Larry (V.O.)
Aaannnnd naturally they fuck it all up, as Arawan spies on them all through his crystal ball of plot device and sends his dragon-like Gwythaints to attack them. They do and soon the Cauldron of McGuffin is off once again to Castle Grayskull, err, the Spiral Castle. Our heroes now return to the castle, where the siege has turned hot and the forces of Prince Gwydion are overrunning the battlements, defeating the remaining mostly human guards, Enchanter Dalben is even there to vanquish the remaining cauldron born zombies with some computer-aided mystical Laser Floyd effects. Victory seems assured for our heroic Prince when the Gwythaints bring back the cauldron, so the many dead can rise once again to join the armies of Arawan.
Aaannnnd naturally they fuck it all up, as Arawan spies on them all through his crystal ball of plot device and sends his dragon-like Gwythaints to attack them. They do and soon the Cauldron of McGuffin is off once again to Castle Grayskull, err, the Spiral Castle. Our heroes now return to the castle, where the siege has turned hot and the forces of Prince Gwydion are overrunning the battlements, defeating the remaining mostly human guards, Enchanter Dalben is even there to vanquish the remaining cauldron born zombies with some computer-aided mystical Laser Floyd effects. Victory seems assured for our heroic Prince when the Gwythaints bring back the cauldron, so the many dead can rise once again to join the armies of Arawan.
Interior – The Cauldron Room (Animation)
The five heroes reenter the castle and get to the cauldron room. In a spectacular animation and effects scene, Arawan uses the magic of the cauldron and the dead come back to life and engage, and kill, the living soldiers on both sides, who also rise as cauldron born.
Larry (V.O.)
The five heroes break back into the castle just in time for Arawan aka the Horned King to use the dark magic to summon more of the cauldron born zombies in a scene brought to you by the makers of Diazepam. Soon it’s dead men walking and…ah! The blood! The bones! AH! AH! Ahhnyway, in the ensuing fight to recapture the cauldron, or at least end the ceremony, Ellidyr is stabbed by a zombie and…ah! More blood! So much blood!! Now Taran, knowing someone has to stop this, makes the decision to dive into the cauldron and sacrifice himself. He is stopped by the dying Ellidyr, who, after spending most of the film mocking Taran’s low birth, surprises Taran by knighting him on the spot as the zombies graciously wait out the ceremony and then does a swan dive into the cauldron himself, the first non-villain main character death in a Disney movie since Bambi’s Mom, if I recall. His sacrifice causes the cauldron to crack and shoot magic flames that engulf and consume Arawan, and cause all the zombies to crumble into dust. The love triangle terminally resolved, Gurgi arranges for events to allow Eilonwy and now-Sir Taran, to kiss. And we have our…happy ending?
The five heroes break back into the castle just in time for Arawan aka the Horned King to use the dark magic to summon more of the cauldron born zombies in a scene brought to you by the makers of Diazepam. Soon it’s dead men walking and…ah! The blood! The bones! AH! AH! Ahhnyway, in the ensuing fight to recapture the cauldron, or at least end the ceremony, Ellidyr is stabbed by a zombie and…ah! More blood! So much blood!! Now Taran, knowing someone has to stop this, makes the decision to dive into the cauldron and sacrifice himself. He is stopped by the dying Ellidyr, who, after spending most of the film mocking Taran’s low birth, surprises Taran by knighting him on the spot as the zombies graciously wait out the ceremony and then does a swan dive into the cauldron himself, the first non-villain main character death in a Disney movie since Bambi’s Mom, if I recall. His sacrifice causes the cauldron to crack and shoot magic flames that engulf and consume Arawan, and cause all the zombies to crumble into dust. The love triangle terminally resolved, Gurgi arranges for events to allow Eilonwy and now-Sir Taran, to kiss. And we have our…happy ending?
Interior – Larry’s Study
Larry is back at his desk.
Larry
The Black Cauldron debuted in late November of 1984 and thereby became Burton’s other “Nightmare before Christmas”. The movie got positive reviews and debuted at number one at the box office, just beating out the craptacular Supergirl. After a promising opening weekend, however, attendance dropped like a rock. Despite the studio working hard in their marketing campaign to make it clear that this movie was, duh, not appropriate for younger children, news stories proliferated of parents dragging their terrified tots out of theaters. There were even a few lawsuits, all dismissed since, double duh, PG rated movie back when that meant something. That one’s on you, Mama Jones! It was looking like Disney animation was about to have its first bomb since Fantasia. But then, [angelic music plays] a Christmas miracle happened. Attendance started ticking back up. It seems that there truly is no such thing as bad publicity, because soon stupid, macho-wannabe 8-12 year old boys like me were dragging our parents to see this 90-minute SSRI advertisement because we were Big Boys, brave and strong, dammit, and no, I wasn’t scared by the skeletons and witches, you were! And if my eyes are red it’s because I was up all night past my bedtime because I’m a rebel, not because I was screaming that skeletons were going to eat me in my sleep, no way!!
The Black Cauldron debuted in late November of 1984 and thereby became Burton’s other “Nightmare before Christmas”. The movie got positive reviews and debuted at number one at the box office, just beating out the craptacular Supergirl. After a promising opening weekend, however, attendance dropped like a rock. Despite the studio working hard in their marketing campaign to make it clear that this movie was, duh, not appropriate for younger children, news stories proliferated of parents dragging their terrified tots out of theaters. There were even a few lawsuits, all dismissed since, double duh, PG rated movie back when that meant something. That one’s on you, Mama Jones! It was looking like Disney animation was about to have its first bomb since Fantasia. But then, [angelic music plays] a Christmas miracle happened. Attendance started ticking back up. It seems that there truly is no such thing as bad publicity, because soon stupid, macho-wannabe 8-12 year old boys like me were dragging our parents to see this 90-minute SSRI advertisement because we were Big Boys, brave and strong, dammit, and no, I wasn’t scared by the skeletons and witches, you were! And if my eyes are red it’s because I was up all night past my bedtime because I’m a rebel, not because I was screaming that skeletons were going to eat me in my sleep, no way!!
Larry sits back, pretending to cry for a moment.
Larry
And yet – are you detecting a pattern, folks? – it could have been even scarier! Some leaked concept art portrays some pants-shittingly gruesome images of the living becoming the living dead by their flesh bubbling, rotting, and blistering away.
And yet – are you detecting a pattern, folks? – it could have been even scarier! Some leaked concept art portrays some pants-shittingly gruesome images of the living becoming the living dead by their flesh bubbling, rotting, and blistering away.
For a brief second, highlighted by a scream effect, some of this concept art is flashed on the screen.
Larry
Apparently, even the man who brought you cute little Muppets having their very souls ripped from them by the Dark Crystal, and who somehow felt that Brian Froud and Tim Burton were the right call for designing a Disney cartoon, though this was too much. [break] The Black Cauldron ultimately made a cool $50 million or so at the international box office[1], doing much better overseas than in the US. It thereby either made a fair profit or it barely broke even, depending on how you count the costs to make it. The film represents a unique period in Disney animation. Ron Miller was pushing for a more adult, mature image for Disney. New Chief Creative Officer Jim Henson, creator of The Dark Crystal and your psychiatrist’s best friend, was also trying to shed his kid-friendly “Muppets” image. And simultaneous to all of this was the backdrop of an attempted corporate takeover which may well have led to some of the darker themes staying in. Should you see it? Yes, with other grown up adults, in the daytime with all the lights on. It’s unique among the Disney anima-canon, stylistically singular, and thematically unlike nearly anything else in Disney’s anima-canon. Watch it, and be sure to forward your therapy bills to Brian Froud and Tim Burton. [beat] So, you did it, you wasted another good quarter hour of your life and ran your therapy bills back up with me as I demonstrated once again why “Nostalgia was Way Better when I was a Kid”. Come back next week for a new video, this time about the Dan Ackroyd and Eddie Murphy comedy Ghostbusters, a 90-minute ghost story that’s still far less terror inducing than good old Walt Disney from the same year. And, as always…pleasant dreams!
Apparently, even the man who brought you cute little Muppets having their very souls ripped from them by the Dark Crystal, and who somehow felt that Brian Froud and Tim Burton were the right call for designing a Disney cartoon, though this was too much. [break] The Black Cauldron ultimately made a cool $50 million or so at the international box office[1], doing much better overseas than in the US. It thereby either made a fair profit or it barely broke even, depending on how you count the costs to make it. The film represents a unique period in Disney animation. Ron Miller was pushing for a more adult, mature image for Disney. New Chief Creative Officer Jim Henson, creator of The Dark Crystal and your psychiatrist’s best friend, was also trying to shed his kid-friendly “Muppets” image. And simultaneous to all of this was the backdrop of an attempted corporate takeover which may well have led to some of the darker themes staying in. Should you see it? Yes, with other grown up adults, in the daytime with all the lights on. It’s unique among the Disney anima-canon, stylistically singular, and thematically unlike nearly anything else in Disney’s anima-canon. Watch it, and be sure to forward your therapy bills to Brian Froud and Tim Burton. [beat] So, you did it, you wasted another good quarter hour of your life and ran your therapy bills back up with me as I demonstrated once again why “Nostalgia was Way Better when I was a Kid”. Come back next week for a new video, this time about the Dan Ackroyd and Eddie Murphy comedy Ghostbusters, a 90-minute ghost story that’s still far less terror inducing than good old Walt Disney from the same year. And, as always…pleasant dreams!
[Theme music plays and video ends]
[1] Notably better than in our timeline, but hardly a major blockbuster and far below Ron Miller’s dreams of reinvigorating Disney Animation. Having a unique look and a central guiding vision has produced a “better” picture, but the dark, un-Disneylike tone is still holding it back. It will be another “cult classic” in this timeline, the “unappreciated gem” for many. It will be remembered for being an early cinematic look at Tim Burton.
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This TL's version of Eris*? I dig it.
Like I said, its not like the content that's what these kinds of parents would rather have their kids watching could be just as horrifying.
Overall, great stuff we got here.
*Assuming Dreamworks Animation will even exist as we know it, and I doubt it.
Shame you appear to have butterflied away Doug Walker/The Nostalgia Critic... as a fanboy of both Tim Burton AND The Black Cauldron, he would love this.
What do you mean shame there's no Nostalgia Critic and by extension Channel Awesome?
Okay, I still like the less problematic ones, but still.
I don't think he necessarily butterflied the Nostalgia Critic, given that the guy is 100% NC.
Having said that, though, @Geekhis Khan, what was the critical reception for The Black Cauldron ITTL? Because Cauldron in our timeline wasn't warmly embraced by critics.
Batman is coming up in a few years.
As is probably obvious by now, "Larry" and NwWBwIwaK are modelled heavily on Channel Awesome style YouTube Nostalgia Reviewers. I have deliberately chosen a fictional Expy rather than try an invoke a specific person. This gives me more creative freedom and avoids the pitfalls of trying to speak for minor celebreties who don't necessarily have the publically available info to do them justice as it were. Whether or not this "butterflies" Channel Awesome I leave to the individual viewer.
I'm not too familiar with the original so how much of the story is changed here?
It does sound like a huge departure from Disney's traditional line up and I'm guessing that feeling is even more pronounced here due to the unique, one-off art style. I can imagine people being surprised that this was a disney film a few decades after release.
On the art style, how much does the concept art reflect the final animations? Is it still quite scetchy? Do they incorporate a more familiar animation style for the fairy world to put the alieness of the Fay in sharper relief, or is the style consistent throughout the film?
It does sound like a huge departure from Disney's traditional line up and I'm guessing that feeling is even more pronounced here due to the unique, one-off art style. I can imagine people being surprised that this was a disney film a few decades after release.
On the art style, how much does the concept art reflect the final animations? Is it still quite scetchy? Do they incorporate a more familiar animation style for the fairy world to put the alieness of the Fay in sharper relief, or is the style consistent throughout the film?
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