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I know I'm in the tiny minority but my only issue with that nuclear sequence in Crystal Skull was Indy getting back out of that fridge again. Unless I've remembered it wrong that style of fridge locked shut to make their temperature seal (pretty sure you still have to remove the doors from any fridge you want to throw out because of these) and Indy would have suffocated instead of climbing out again, assuming he wasn't already dead from impact trauma from getting rolled around like that.

Okay, I just re-watched that scene again (thanks, YouTube!) and now my biggest issue is the totally absurd idea that the fridge, and just the fridge, could be thrown a good mile down-range instead of being buried under what's left of the house. I have no issue with Indy surviving in the fridge if he was dug up by the inspection team after the test (ignoring my point about suffocating, above). He was protected by both the house and the fridge itself (lead lined, no less!) and the bomb itself looked to be a good mile away from the test buildings. People survived both the Hiroshima and Nagasaki detonations at even closer ranges just by having the good fortune to be standing in the right place.
 
The Summer of 1984 was indeed Epic for movies ITTL. I suspect the AltMe saw Mask of the Monkey King, Ghostbusters, and Back to the Future, but missed Gremlins as its not the sort of thing my Mum would like!

@THE OBSERVER Could be worse, we aren't talking about Star Wars (yet)

I am hoping @Geekhis Khan gives us a Star Wars continuation after Return of the Jedi - possibly a TV series dealing with the Fall of the Empire. New cast, occaasional cameo/guest slot from the old mains. Decent budget and effects.
 

marathag

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I am hoping @Geekhis Khan gives us a Star Wars continuation after Return of the Jedi - possibly a TV series dealing with the Fall of the Empire. New cast, occaasional cameo/guest slot from the old mains. Decent budget and effects.
Rather than_Droids_ cartoon and _Ewoks_?

Oh for the ATL where it's _Revenge of the Jedi_ and there are Feral Wookies....
 
>Blasphemy
>Blasphemy
>Blasphemy

Journey to the West isn’t a Chinese Civil War action adventure about potence.
Nor is it the early modern redaction of an older peasant / religious myth cycle.
It is a British Japanese dub about transvestism, the nature of consciousness, and disco.
 
I am hoping @Geekhis Khan gives us a Star Wars continuation after Return of the Jedi - possibly a TV series dealing with the Fall of the Empire. New cast, occaasional cameo/guest slot from the old mains. Decent budget and effects.

Well there is this:
 
I will not lie, while I love the clocktower ending, I would kill to see Marty speeding towards a nuclear bomb outside of storyboards.
 
Meta-Discussion: Butterflies vs. Movies
Meta-Commentary: My Philosophy on Allo-Historical Entertainment

As stated under the earlier Meta-commentary on the butterfly effect, entertainment is inherently volatile. There are a million things that have to go right to make something a hit, and a million things that could go wrong to sink it. As Mikey Neumann of “Movies with Mikey” said, “it’s like hitting the bullseye on a dartboard…from space.” The right movie with the right actors and the right director and the right editor at the wrong time equals a film that goes “underappreciated”. A patently crap movie at the exact right time that captures the zeitgeist of the moment can be a hit, only for later viewers to ask “what in the hell did people see in that?”

It is simplicity itself to turn a hit from our timeline into a flop: the wrong actor in the wrong role, a simple adjustment to the zeitgeist, released at the wrong time against the wrong movie, negative buzz due to circumstance. I could justifiably turn Ghostbusters into a monumental flop and Ishtar into the greatest movie of all time with a few strategically placed butterflies (I considered the latter as a joke, but dropped it due to the huge butterflies it would create in another area). On top of that, even making a movie in the first place is fraught with circumstance and studio politics. A great movie (or TV show) can even get “screwed by the network”, particularly when a new exec takes over and, in a move Robin Williams compared to the new lion killing the prior lion’s cubs, sabotages all of their predecessor’s projects in favor of their own, just to reinforce the myth that it is “their great leadership” that makes a hit and their predecessors “poor leadership” that makes a flop. Clearly the directors, actors, editors, and designers had nothing to do with it, just the magical touch of the studio head’s “strategic brilliance”.

Every movie or fictional production is walking a tightrope. A look at the production of Stand By Me will reveal what a freaking miracle it was that the movie ever got greenlit and completed. Anything could hypothetically butterfly that film, which, given the number of careers it launched and the way it influenced cinema, would utterly change film in the late 1980s and 1990s. In other words, tiny random butterflies could sink Stand By Me, and with it The Princess Bride and other future Rob Reiner films and TV series, butterfly all of the River Phoenix films to follow, lead to “Leslie Crusher” on Star Trek: The Next Generation (assuming random butterflies don’t kill that outright), and, since Reiner is now not a big name, kill Castle Rock Entertainment and with it Seinfeld and all the monumental butterflies to American comedy that come with that!

In short, butterfly Stand By Me and you’re quickly in the Fiction Zone. Same for some other influential productions of the time. Could, say, Back to the Future have been a flop in this timeline? Absolutely. But then what? Michael J. Fox’s movie career is probably toast in that case. He’d be typecast as Alex Keaton and be another one of those “where are they now/remember this guy?” stories. No sequels, no iconic DeLorean (a completely forgotten dead-end car in this hypothetical world), no Rick & Morty…in other words a complete dystopia hardly fit for human existence. The same can be said for Ghostbusters.

These and several other influential productions (such as Star Wars) are what I think of as “Keystone Productions”. Remove them, and the changes come so fast that you’re in the Fiction Zone in a matter of years. And as I stated before in the discussion on The Butterfly Effect, I want to keep things in the Plausible Butterfly Zone and out of the Fiction Zone for as long as possible, both for the sake of my readers and for the sake of my own sanity.

And thus, here is my central philosophy on allo-historical fiction: if it’s a) the same people making it more or less, b) comes out at about the same time, and c) there are no direct butterflies that would affect things otherwise, then I will assume a performance on par with our timeline. Is this completely realistic? No. But it maintains the verisimilitude of the alternate world. In some cases where there’s an existing franchise with a built-in fandom (e.g. Star Wars) this is more plausible than with a totally original production, but even then, a lot can change.

There’s some historical precedent to support this hypothesis. Even hit movies can have jarring flaws (Keanu Reeves’ accent in Bram Stoker’s Dracula) and even infamously disastrous movies can have unforgettably great moments (Raul Julia’s scenery devouring awesomeness as M. Bison in Street Fighter), so there’s even some leeway here for a hit to stay a hit even with a spanner thrown in the works or for crap to stay crap despite having a great blessing bestowed upon it. As hard as it is to imagine Back to the Future without Christopher Lloyd, replacing him with John Lithgow, who the part was originally written for, probably doesn’t sink the film for audiences (honestly if I had to choose a replacement for Lloyd in the role it would be Lithgow). Replacing him with Sylvester Stallone, on the other hand, might.

So, to reiterate from what I said earlier, I will stick to direct butterflies for the most part and, unless I can identify a specific butterfly that changes something, then I will assume “historical inertia” is at play. I may even invoke “second order butterflies” that drive things back towards our timeline in certain respects, such as for “Keystone Productions”, if only to keep things in the Plausible Butterfly Zone and out of the Fiction Zone.

And then there’s the overarching goals of this timeline and the main plot thread: Jim Henson at Disney. This entire timeline is here to investigate what would happen if you threw Jim Henson into the volatile mix of the late Disney Dark Age. There are places to explore culturally, economically, and philosophically that are the real aims of this timeline rather than just an excuse to chase butterflies. If these two tentpole blockbusters flopped, then the overall goals of this timeline are gone. Disney stock would plummet and another buyout attempt would be imminent. Henson, who pushed for these two movies, would lose his job for sure. Pop culture would be in the Fiction Zone. Timeline effectively over.

So, yea, having both films be hits is not necessarily the most absolutely plausible scenario, but the goal here is to entertain and explore, in particular explore the main concept of this timeline. I don’t want to drive things completely into Alien Space Bat Country (the goal remains verisimilitude) but I also don’t want to drive things into the Fiction Zone too soon. It’s a balancing act, and I admit up front that there’s a real chance I’ll screw it up at some point, at least for some of my readers. If you’re one of those readers who’s pushed past the point of willing suspension of disbelief, then my apologies. I’m trying to cast a wide net here and not just make it a timeline enjoyable by an ever-shrinking group, but in the words of a forgotten ‘70s song: “you can’t please everyone so you’ve got to please yourself.”

Wow…as a kid that song didn’t seem so much like a double-entendre.

So, with all that at the back of your minds, let’s continue on with A Hippie in the House of Mouse (dramatic organ music on backorder).
 
Thank you for your outline. I understand the tightrope you are on here, but please do not be afraid to sink popular stuff if the butterfly storm points to it e.g Buffy the TV show getting made after the movie sunk. I get you want to stay out of the ’fiction zone’ but please do consider options.

I would like Easy changes like another actor getting a role - eg someone else playing Riker, or Blade as the whims odf casting are legendary.

Bigger changes like Roddenberry not being the show runner for TNG, or TSR being brought my Marvel, who then get brought by Paramount would be nice too.

However, it is your timeline @Geekhis Khan and as it’s been a fun ride so far, I am here for the ride, where you take us.
 
I may even invoke “second order butterflies” that drive things back towards our timeline in certain respects
Good man. Everyone expects butterflies to make timelines less alike, but probability works both ways and if the logical/reasonable thing to do is have things end up closer to OTL than they started. I also approve of measures that preserve your sanity, just on principle.
Amusingly, I actually saw (in a comedy no less) this idea being pondered by a comic character stuck between universes so the idea of converging timelines is hardly new.

That said, I fully expect this timeline to pass the 'Fiction Point' by the late 90s/early 00s from the accumulated flapping of butterfly wings.
 
>Blasphemy
>Blasphemy
>Blasphemy

Journey to the West isn’t a Chinese Civil War action adventure about potence.
Nor is it the early modern redaction of an older peasant / religious myth cycle.
It is a British Japanese dub about transvestism, the nature of consciousness, and disco.

Now I am imagining a young Tim Curry heading the cast of the disco & transvestites version of Journey to the West.

fasquardon
 
I am hoping @Geekhis Khan gives us a Star Wars continuation after Return of the Jedi - possibly a TV series dealing with the Fall of the Empire. New cast, occaasional cameo/guest slot from the old mains. Decent budget and effects.
Rather than_Droids_ cartoon and _Ewoks_?

Oh for the ATL where it's _Revenge of the Jedi_ and there are Feral Wookies....
Well there is this:

I have some ideas for SW in the coming years.

What happened to The Search for Spock? That was released in the summer of 1984.

Shit, I had it in my head that that came out in '83. I may Retcon the post. Long story short pretty much per OTL at this point.

EDIT: made an edit to the Summer of '84 Post to add Star Trek III. Thanks for the catch @TimothyC

I will not lie, while I love the clocktower ending, I would kill to see Marty speeding towards a nuclear bomb outside of storyboards.

I would have enjoyed that too. The effects would be early '80s effects, though, so your mileage may vary on how well they'd hold up.

Thank you for your outline. I understand the tightrope you are on here, but please do not be afraid to sink popular stuff if the butterfly storm points to it e.g Buffy the TV show getting made after the movie sunk. I get you want to stay out of the ’fiction zone’ but please do consider options.

I would like Easy changes like another actor getting a role - eg someone else playing Riker, or Blade as the whims odf casting are legendary.

Bigger changes like Roddenberry not being the show runner for TNG, or TSR being brought my Marvel, who then get brought by Paramount would be nice too.

However, it is your timeline @Geekhis Khan and as it’s been a fun ride so far, I am here for the ride, where you take us.

Oh fear not, @Ogrebear There Will Be Butterflies[1]. Don't expect evey film to be exactly the same. Some will be like GB or BttF with small changes, while others will be entirely different films.

1 - Starring Daniel Day Lewis as Harry Turtledove.

Good man. Everyone expects butterflies to make timelines less alike, but probability works both ways and if the logical/reasonable thing to do is have things end up closer to OTL than they started. I also approve of measures that preserve your sanity, just on principle.
Amusingly, I actually saw (in a comedy no less) this idea being pondered by a comic character stuck between universes so the idea of converging timelines is hardly new.

That said, I fully expect this timeline to pass the 'Fiction Point' by the late 90s/early 00s from the accumulated flapping of butterfly wings.

Thanks, I've felt the same way too to a point. Stay tuned to see if your prediction comes true.

Now I am imagining a young Tim Curry heading the cast of the disco & transvestites version of Journey to the West.

fasquardon

I can make that if you want, @fasquardon & @Sam R. Music by The Village People, directed by Joel Schumacher. I smell a hit!
 
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One interesting butterfly for Star Trek III is if they manage to keep the Enterprise self-destruct from the audience before hand rather than it being the trailer due to Exec meddling. That would get the shock factor and inches in the press.
 
One interesting butterfly for Star Trek III is if they manage to keep the Enterprise self-destruct from the audience before hand rather than it being the trailer due to Exec meddling. That would get the shock factor and inches in the press.
Yes, let's say that happened! 😉
 
Shit, I had it in my head that that came out in '83. I may Retcon the post. Long story short pretty much per OTL at this point.

EDIT: made an edit to the Summer of '84 Post to add Star Trek III. Thanks for the catch @TimothyC
I'm glad I could help. It also keeps Lloyd busy when BttF would be filming, even it it wasn't Lithgow in the role.
 
Jack Lindquist III: Disney Rocks!
Chapter 20: When Disney Started to Rock
Excerpt from In the Service of the Mouse: A Memoir, by Jack Lindquist


Entertainment has always been a mainstay of the Disney resorts. Live shows, bands, dancers, walkaround shows, you name it! And up until the 1980s that music was pretty much what Walt would have been willing to be publicly heard listening to. That meant a lot of old-timey jazz, a lot of folk & country, and a lot of that ‘50s/’60s bubblegum pop like you’d hear from the Mouseketeers.

One thing you certainly didn’t hear was an electric guitar shredding power chords (that’s a thing, right?). So, when Bambi Moe from Disney Music came to us with a rock & roll band for the Space Mountain stage, we were understandably reluctant. But she and producer Mike Post brought us this group that was essentially Kiss crossed with Star Wars. At first, they didn’t even have a name set in stone yet (Starfire? SQWAD? Solar Flare? Space Jam?), but for whatever reason they settled eventually on the nonsense word Halyx[1].

c01f372798abb02777fb376c78cda26883fa3603.jpg

(Image source “cinemablend.com”)

This was in 1981, and George Lucas’s space opera had totally taken over the world. Star Wars 2 [SIC] had just come out and was on everyone’s lips. And anything Sci-Fi you did would inevitably be compared to Star Wars. Even Ron Miller’s The Black Hole, which was in production years before the Millennium Falcon took flight, was affected, becoming slightly less The Poseidon Adventure in space and slightly more like Star Wars! I guess that Bambi figured if you were going to get compared to Star Wars anyway, you might as well just file off the serial numbers and make something Star Wars in all but name!

Even so, Halyx was weird. The lead singer Lora Mumford truly was talented, with a powerful but beautiful voice. She was also just that right mix of Girl Next Door and Rock & Roll, a “punk rock Snow White” as Mike put it. They dressed her up like space Pat Benatar. Her husband Thom Miller, meanwhile, dressed like a robot and played the keyboard from a converted maintenance cart that looked like a small space ship. They had a Chewbacca [SIC] playing bass, a little Yoda [SIC] playing bongos, and…you get the picture. We set them up to play at the Space Mountain stage in the Summer of ’81 and they built up a small but loyal following of mostly teenage fans.

As a professional “hype man”, to use the vernacular, people always ask me what it takes to become “famous”. What is the “secret” to breaking out? And the only honest answer that I can give is dumb luck. Be seen by the right people with the right connections at the right time. The truth is that some of the most talented musicians in the world can languish in obscurity for decades while some hack with three chords to his repertoire becomes an international superstar. And it is entirely possible if not likely that Halyx might have played over the summer and sold some albums through Disney and largely went about their lives. But they got lucky: John Henson was a fan.

John was around 15 at the time and he and his sister Heather had the run of Disneyland as children of an executive, much like Dianne, Sharon, and Roy did back when it first opened. And back in ’81 there weren’t all that many options attractive to teens at Disney, but Space Mountain was one of them. John and Heather used to go to the Halyx concerts and while neither was one of those “front row fanatics” dancing up front, they enjoyed the show. I think John may have had a crush on Lora and, at first, I thought that Heather wanted to be Lora, but when Bambi took them backstage Heather, then-11 or so, mostly wanted to talk to the effects guys and see how the lights and pyrotechnics worked! A chip off of the old block there.

So, since John liked them, Jim checked them out. He and Ron had signed off on the band, who were completely off-brand for Disney at the time with their long hair and loud music (the band members used to get stopped by security for breaking the dress code!). I’m still a bit surprised to this day that they signed off on “Jail Bait”, but I digress. Jim checked out a show and agreed that Lora in particular had real talent and stage presence and that there was certainly a need for more teenage entertainment at Disney, which had a bad rap with the youth at the time. I went with him to the concert and noticed that the fans were so starved for Halyx merchandise that they’d started making their own and sharing it with the band!

“These guys have potential,” Jim told Bambi and me. Bambi hoped that we could get Lora signed with a major label like Geffen rather than just distribute them like a novelty act under Disney[2], but Jim thought that Disney and Halyx had a future together. When the summer concert season came to an end Jim, Bambi, and [Disney Records executive] Gary Krisel produced a couple of music videos which he played on a special Tomorrowland-inspired episode of Disney’s World of Magic in the fall of ’81. The videos got a good deal of fan mail, and a nasty letter from George Lucas! Jim and George eventually worked out a deal behind the scenes where George got an interest in the sales and some limits on merchandise and spinoffs, even though they remained something that was not Star Wars but their own universe. Lora and Thom even did the singing and keyboard work [for Sy Snootles] in Star Wars 3 [SIC] as a sort of nod, and Halyx posters have found their way into the background of Star Wars productions over the years, the text now in that made up Star Wars language [aurebesh][3].

5a462570-f083-11ea-bd09-169d6aad6cdc

(Image from Yahoo Music)

And so, Marty Sklar and I put together a team to build that new not-Star Wars world of Halyx with the usual Disney attention to detail. Now the band were actually the rag-tag crew of the star runner “Halyx”, the fastest ship in the galaxy and shaped roughly like the double-arrow H that was the band logo, which ironically made it somewhat resemble the Tie fighters [SIC] the bad guys flew in Star Wars. The crew was (naturally) on the run from the Vader-like Lord Thraal, dictator of the Galactic Dominion, whose menacing masked face would be projected upon clouds of steam above the band like an evil Great and Powerful Oz and make menacing threats. Since Mumford isn’t the most rock & roll or sci fi name, Lora was now Lora Ranger, captain of the Halyx and last of the “Galactic Rangers” who once maintained justice and freedom in the galaxy before the evil Dominion took over. She’d escaped from a Dominion prison planet along with Chewbacca-like Baharnoth (bassist Roger Freeland), whose noble savage race of aliens had been enslaved by the Dominion for manual labor, the mischievous and mystical alien Tolaras (percussionist/performer/acrobat Tony Coppola) and the smuggler and maintenance worker Brycas (Brian Lucas, the drummer, no relation to George). Meanwhile, Dominion assassin Brogo the Mad (lead guitarist Bruce Gowdy) was dispatched to find and terminate Lora, but betrayed the Dominion and joined forces with her, bringing with him deprogrammed Tactical Heavy Operations (Mechanized) cyborg #319 (THOM-319) (Keyboardist Thom Miller). Together, they and the rest of the “crew” (backup singers) live out their adventures in an ongoing “rock space opera”, forever on the run, undermining Lord Thraal and the Dominion.

Only the early ‘80s could have created Halyx. And only Disney could have made them work. They were the right mix of odd, sincere, campy, and rebellious for the era, anti-establishment enough for the teens, innocent enough for their parents. We released an album under the Buena Vista Music label (with the infamous “Jail Bait” not included) and had a few concerts around the LA Basin. We produced some shirts and other simple merchandise. Soon enough, the combination of the videos playing on World of Magic and then getting picked up by the fledgling MTV led to growing sales, so we pushed farther, distributing the album further, launching a seven-city US tour, and even having some tie-in comics made by Gold Key and some other merchandise (but no toys as a stipulation of the deal with George Lucas). The album went gold at one point with a growing, mostly teenage fan base.

The summer of ’82 saw overflowing performances at Disneyland and EPCOT Center. Then we sent them to Tokyo Disneyland for a week, and the Japanese went nuts[4]. Halyx was charting in the top ten! The “week in Tokyo” turned into a multi-city tour. By the summer of ’83 and the release of Star Wars 3, Halyx was on the verge of being a sensation in the US and Canada and was a sensation in Japan. The second album sold well. We played them on the new Disney Channel and sent them to do interviews with the Today Show and the like. While they only once broke the top 40 in the US, they remained huge in Japan and remain popular there today. Toei even approached us in ’83 about licensing the characters for a cartoon! George put the kibosh on any US cartoons, but the Japanese cartoon was a hit, with many Japanese telling me that they “preferred Halyx to Star Wars” as kids.

Alas, all good things come to an end. Lora knew she had the makings of a real rock star, and soon broke up with both Thom and the band in 1984. The band lived on with a new lead singer, Michie Nakatani, the Shonen Knife bassist, the idea being that she was some kind of Dr. Who style regeneration by Lora Ranger. By this time Halyx’s core audience was growing up and moving on and the whole “progressive rock” thing they were riding had slipped out of the public eye in favor of new forms of music. But with Michie filling in, they squeezed out another two albums and three good years touring in Japan before they called it quits.

Lora, meanwhile, changed her stage name to Lara Whitehall and formed a new all-girl band in the Mötley Crüe mold called Sunset Strip, which were occasionally called the “Sunset Strippers” due to their revealing outfits. We launched them under the new Hyperion Music label and they went on to moderate success in the US and Europe. She made “Jail Bait” into a #8 hit. When Lora and her bandmates got caught with some illegal substances in the car in 1987, inevitably the press caught on and we were deluged with less-than-clever headlines like “Disney Diva Down with Drugs”. Needless to say, this only helped her rock career. We managed to get them all back together in 2001 for a 20th Anniversary show, but that was essentially the end of the Halyx story.

I remember Halyx for a lot of reasons. They were the first Disney band to break out of the clean-cut mid-century mold. They were the first Disney musicians to make a real splash beyond the parks in over a decade. They were a “story band” with comics tie-ins and other merchandise. And they marked the first new music production from Disney Music that wasn’t a read-along record, movie sound track, or Mickey Mouse Disco style novelty album in far too long to remember.

But mostly, I remember Halyx because they were truly one of a kind, and a unique moment in Disney’s history.




[1] Ersatz Storm Trooper Helmet tip to @Plateosaurus for bringing Halyx into the picture. And to Ken Perjurer at Defunctland for reminding us all about them.

[2] This is what they tried in our timeline. Lora initially was signed by Warner Music with a big advance, but they never pulled the trigger and she got frustrated and left LA, abandoning the music scene.

[3] As I see it Lucas wouldn’t be too keen on canonizing someone else’s vision into his world, but he’d likely agree to some Easter eggs for the fans.

[4] @nick_crenshaw82 called it!
 
Amazing! Knew this would come!

Granted, they weren't as big or influential as other stars of the time, but surely an extra 1 (or more) hit wonder would have some butterflies, as would Sunset Strip.
Really, I'm sure at least five other people just want to see how Al would parody just either of them.
 
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I had never heard of this band! Halyx look awesome! Sooooooo 80's.

Wonder if they get any mentions in other Sci-Fi media like Doctor Who, or Red Dwarf?

Pity Lucas was against toys (given we was getting a cut) as I get they would sell well. Wonder how much unofficial merch got made?

Did the Japanese cartoon eventually get dubbed later on?

 
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