My thoughts too. This definitely would breath a new life into the franchise by giving the Federation a newer goal after the Borg war ends; while TNG might essentially wrap the post-war elements it doesn’t mean we can’t get some material for the sequel series to build off further. What makes this even better is they might have thought Season 7 would be the last (like IOTL), only to get renewed further and letting them have a Coda to everything they had built up with the then-current cast.

Thinking about it more, while the Dominion War arc helped DS9 stand apart and distinguish itself from the rest of the franchise, it also became a noose around Trek’s proverbial neck. Putting into perspective the fact we got reboots (the Kelvin timeline) and then another prequel-then-sequel (Discovery), then after THAT we got a sequel that dealt with established fallout from the “reboot” (Picard)… Stew on that for a little while.
TNG is all the better for having an additional season to wrap up most plot elements and explore the immediate aftermath of the Borg War, which would've no doubt wrought much devastation on the entire Alpha Quadrant. It probably needed that season to provide an easier transition to the sequel series and the TNG films, so I suppose it was very much appreciated that Triad gave them that chance.

I gotta disagree you with the Dominion War arc though, as I don't believe that the arc was that restrictive towards future stories as you might think. There were many novels, games, and other media that told of new events that happened after the Dominion War. You could say that there were a lot of questions left hanging too, like the fate of the Cardassians or the Romulans. Sadly, I don't think they really capitalized on a post-DS9 galaxy before the problems with Voyager and later Enterprise (plus franchise fatigue) ultimately doomed Star Trek.

Agreed. Of course, we still don’t know the shape of STVI yet, let alone if Dropped A Bridge On Him becomes a trope ITTL. Fingers crossed.
It might end up being similar, because of the Khitomer Accords and the initial struggle of creating a peace between the Federation and Klingons (which had both factions sabotaging such peace). In that case, the Season 7/8 of TNG would probably make every Trekkie worried after watching Undiscovered Country because it's like "Oh crap, this is history repeating itself AGAIN" with the advent of a future Federation-Klingon War thanks to hardliner factions on both sides.

Put more simply, regardless of whether George L. makes the PT in any way, this TL lets him get a creative boost and everything THAT implies. Which can only be a good thing.
Yeah, I can see George Lucas be far more enthusiastic whenever he makes films like a new Willow entry or a Dinotopia adaptation. Seeing Lucas be somewhat happy would be a rather weird thing to see after viewing him as a much more cynical figure until his retirement.

I still hold faith in the Prequels/Sequels due to their importance in the franchise, but maybe George Lucas doesn't need to make it. Him letting go of the SW universe in favor of new writers might be one of the most pivotal things he could ever do, just as long as he gets someone in Lucasfilm to act as a strict arbiter over canonical content.

Here's a Star Trek showerthought: Would the Romulans annul the Treaty of Algeron during the Borg War to help the Feds coordinate combined ambushes on Borg ships? That gives the opportunity for Federation vessels ITTL to have cloaking devices, including the Enterprise-D.
 
TNG is all the better for having an additional season to wrap up most plot elements and explore the immediate aftermath of the Borg War, which would've no doubt wrought much devastation on the entire Alpha Quadrant. It probably needed that season to provide an easier transition to the sequel series and the TNG films, so I suppose it was very much appreciated that Triad gave them that chance.

I gotta disagree you with the Dominion War arc though, as I don't believe that the arc was that restrictive towards future stories as you might think. There were many novels, games, and other media that told of new events that happened after the Dominion War. You could say that there were a lot of questions left hanging too, like the fate of the Cardassians or the Romulans. Sadly, I don't think they really capitalized on a post-DS9 galaxy before the problems with Voyager and later Enterprise (plus franchise fatigue) ultimately doomed Star Trek.
Let me rephrase that: I do not think the Dominion war made covering what comes after it undoable or even difficult (regardless of it lacking a “closure season” and wrapping at S7 like most modern Trek shows). What I do think is that for the showrunners overseeing the Trek franchise in the 1990s-2000s, they had raised the bar considerably eith DS9 and made their arguable Magnum Opus; not wanting to escalate higher, they went for lower-key stories overall, including a distant prequel series that failed to spark as much interest (Enterprise) and a show in the later chronology which fell into a formula that was ultimately on the verge of stagnation, so it didn’t catch on like the previous shows (Voyager). Neither show was bad, but it said a lot about the overall state of the franchise - with creatives, with execs., and with the fanbase (themselves divided by DS9 for tackling an actual lasting conflict, which in light of Roddenberry’s passing was not sitting entirely well with the fanbase).

Juggling these expectations, wanting to play safe vs. knowing when to take risks, etc.? That made the main ST (if not the EU) uncertain of its own direction (its own Prime Directive, if you will). From that perspective, it may be that TNG in this TL has set up a less… precarious, shall we say, position for the setting to follow. Which even if true might not be for the best, but if we can have long-running shows into the 2010s at least (before limited series become the norm), well… who knows for sure?
It might end up being similar, because of the Khitomer Accords and the initial struggle of creating a peace between the Federation and Klingons (which had both factions sabotaging such peace). In that case, the Season 7/8 of TNG would probably make every Trekkie worried after watching Undiscovered Country because it's like "Oh crap, this is history repeating itself AGAIN" with the advent of a future Federation-Klingon War thanks to hardliner factions on both sides.


Yeah, I can see George Lucas be far more enthusiastic whenever he makes films like a new Willow entry or a Dinotopia adaptation. Seeing Lucas be somewhat happy would be a rather weird thing to see after viewing him as a much more cynical figure until his retirement.

I still hold faith in the Prequels/Sequels due to their importance in the franchise, but maybe George Lucas doesn't need to make it. Him letting go of the SW universe in favor of new writers might be one of the most pivotal things he could ever do, just as long as he gets someone in Lucasfilm to act as a strict arbiter over canonical content.

Here's a Star Trek showerthought: Would the Romulans annul the Treaty of Algeron during the Borg War to help the Feds coordinate combined ambushes on Borg ships? That gives the opportunity for Federation vessels ITTL to have cloaking devices, including the Enterprise-D.
All sounds good to me.
I know this isn't the proper thing to ask or begin to discuss about in this thread buttt... what if Frank Wells didn't die in the Helicopter Crash in 1994 OTL?
Given the chanciness of that IOTL, not impossible. If Wells mellows out a little he may not end up in a life-threatening situation, although he WAS very much the adventurous type. His death may happen at a different point by different means… hmm.
 
Let me rephrase that: I do not think the Dominion war made covering what comes after it undoable or even difficult (regardless of it lacking a “closure season” and wrapping at S7 like most modern Trek shows). What I do think is that for the showrunners overseeing the Trek franchise in the 1990s-2000s, they had raised the bar considerably with DS9 and made their arguable Magnum Opus; not wanting to escalate higher, they went for lower-key stories overall, including a distant prequel series that failed to spark as much interest (Enterprise) and a show in the later chronology which fell into a formula that was ultimately on the verge of stagnation, so it didn’t catch on like the previous shows (Voyager). Neither show was bad, but it said a lot about the overall state of the franchise - with creatives, with execs., and with the fanbase (themselves divided by DS9 for tackling an actual lasting conflict, which in light of Roddenberry’s passing was not sitting entirely well with the fanbase).
Okay, now I understand what you're saying with your previous post. I guess a similar conflict could occur here with the Borg War, although I suppose it's far less destructive/conflicting with the fanbase because of the Borg's nature as a hive mind that couldn't be reasoned with and the war being a unifying force to a larger amount of allies without compromising the Federation's values itself (no "In the Pale Moonlight" for Riker).

As for the Borg War being their magnum opus....maybe it's like that ITTL for the fans, but I think they left enough loose ends and questions that the sequel series would be held up to par with TNG, especially with its DS9-like tone and intrigue. Competition with Babylon 5 could also be a major factor in their push towards more complex stories, so in a way, the sequel series could end up being the magnum opus of Star Trek like DS9 of our timeline. Hopefully the writing could extend towards future shows like Voyager and Enterprise, but we'll see whether the writers/producers will pull through or if they're going to struggle like OTL.

I mentioned Section 31, but I don't know...do we really them to exist in this story if there's no stories that involve the Federation doing away with their values? Perhaps not. Heck, maybe Shelby or some other officials in Starfleet Intelligence could prevent the rise of something like Section 31 from arising within their ranks.

Given the chanciness of that IOTL, not impossible. If Wells mellows out a little he may not end up in a life-threatening situation, although he WAS very much the adventurous type. His death may happen at a different point by different means… hmm.
I doubt Wells will die in that helicopter crash, unless Geekhis wills it for some reason. The butterflies have probably changed his life enough that the incident might not even happen or he skips the event. Personally, I think he has a significantly higher chance of dying from climbing Mount Everest than the helicopter crash ITTL, since that's the last mountain he wanted to climb, IIRC. He will try again unless politics or work prevent him from doing that.

Alternatively, I had the strange scenario at the top of my head where if the same events play out, then Frank Wells gets on the other helicopter by chance and Clint Eastwood dies in that helicopter accident in 1994. Obviously, that's not the most optimal way of saving Frank Wells though.
 
and a show in the later chronology which fell into a formula that was ultimately on the verge of stagnation, so it didn’t catch on like the previous shows (Voyager)
If this is a reference to Discovery AFAIK that show was set in the original chronology and not the Kelvin TL.
Let me rephrase that: I do not think the Dominion war made covering what comes after it undoable or even difficult (regardless of it lacking a “closure season” and wrapping at S7 like most modern Trek shows). What I do think is that for the showrunners overseeing the Trek franchise in the 1990s-2000s, they had raised the bar considerably eith DS9 and made their arguable Magnum Opus; not wanting to escalate higher, they went for lower-key stories overall, including a distant prequel series that failed to spark as much interest (Enterprise) and a show in the later chronology which fell into a formula that was ultimately on the verge of stagnation, so it didn’t catch on like the previous shows (Voyager). Neither show was bad, but it said a lot about the overall state of the franchise - with creatives, with execs., and with the fanbase (themselves divided by DS9 for tackling an actual lasting conflict, which in light of Roddenberry’s passing was not sitting entirely well with the fanbase).

Juggling these expectations, wanting to play safe vs. knowing when to take risks, etc.? That made the main ST (if not the EU) uncertain of its own direction (its own Prime Directive, if you will). From that perspective, it may be that TNG in this TL has set up a less… precarious, shall we say, position for the setting to follow. Which even if true might not be for the best, but if we can have long-running shows into the 2010s at least (before limited series become the norm), well… who knows for sure?
I agree that a lot of this has to do with franchise fatigue (with nearly 20 years of Star Trek) and the number of directions (spread amongst four different show.)
Given the chanciness of that IOTL, not impossible. If Wells mellows out a little he may not end up in a life-threatening situation, although he WAS very much the adventurous type.
His death or lack there of is literally a butterfly effect, with all the changes to the TL will have a knock on affect on weather patterns meaning the storm that killed him OTL may never happen.
I mentioned Section 31, but I don't know...do we really them to exist in this story if there's no stories that involve the Federation doing away with their values?
I think having a covert dirty works organization with plausible deniability like Section 31 is necessary so the Federation can have their values. And anyway if we're to believe Enterprise Section 31 has existed since the beginning and with absolutely no accountability, something that we could change ITTL. It would make no sense to not have such an organization and most every other foreign power does.
I doubt Wells will die in that helicopter crash, unless Geekhis wills it for some reason. The butterflies have probably changed his life enough that the incident might not even happen or he skips the event. Personally, I think he has a significantly higher chance of dying from climbing Mount Everest than the helicopter crash ITTL, since that's the last mountain he wanted to climb, IIRC. He will try again unless politics or work prevent him from doing that.

Alternatively, I had the strange scenario at the top of my head where if the same events play out, then Frank Wells gets on the other helicopter by chance and Clint Eastwood dies in that helicopter accident in 1994. Obviously, that's not the most optimal way of saving Frank Wells though.
Like I said above weather patterns are completely different ITTL meaning the storm that prevented him from climbing Everest may never happen along with the storm that killed him in1994.
 
Like I said above weather patterns are completely different ITTL meaning the storm that prevented him from climbing Everest may never happen along with the storm that killed him in1994.
Wells being able to climb Everest is kinda unlikely, given his expedition to Everest and subsequent failure happened in 1983. I doubt Henson's decision to join Disney would have a huge knock-on influence on weather patterns unless they're that fickle.
As for the helicopter accident, yeah, I agree that it's far more likely to be butterflied due to a number of factors besides weather. I just posited the scenario as something from the top of my head and since it would result in the death of another person (even if he's a person I personally don't care for), I don't want it happening even if it meant Wells is alive.

I think having a covert dirty works organization with plausible deniability like Section 31 is necessary so the Federation can have their values. And anyway if we're to believe Enterprise Section 31 has existed since the beginning and with absolutely no accountability, something that we could change ITTL. It would make no sense to not have such an organization and most every other foreign power does.
Yeah, Section 31 might have to exist to add an intelligence agency comparable to the Obsidian Order and the Tal Shiar to the Federation without making them seem contradictory to the Federation's ideals, especially during this chaotic time after the Borg War. Personally, I also think they should be accountable to the Federation's higher levels ITTL, since that adds to the further darkness of the Federation, since they're more integrated to the UFP and are sanctioned by them, even if they don't publicly recognize their existence instead of being more of a rogue group.

Not gonna lie, I'll gush if Section 31 had a ship that could use Interphase Cloaking in the sequel series, since that scene was very cool. Although if an episode like The Pegasus exists, then Riker would not be very pleased if he ever manages to find out.

Alternatively, Section 31/Starfleet Intelligence could also develop a system similar to the Romulan drones in Enterprise with the Incursion device, and it might even be canon since CGI ships might be a possibility, giving them leeway towards simulating this system.
 
Wells being able to climb Everest is kinda unlikely, given his expedition to Everest and subsequent failure happened in 1983. I doubt Henson's decision to join Disney would have a huge knock-on influence on weather patterns unless they're that fickle.
I'm well aware that his Everest attempt occurred in 1983/84 but considering that the original PoD occurred in 1980 leaves plenty of time for the flap of a butterfly’s wings in Brazil to set off a tornado in Texas.
 
Okay, now I understand what you're saying with your previous post. I guess a similar conflict could occur here with the Borg War, although I suppose it's far less destructive/conflicting with the fanbase because of the Borg's nature as a hive mind that couldn't be reasoned with and the war being a unifying force to a larger amount of allies without compromising the Federation's values itself (no "In the Pale Moonlight" for Riker).
Precisely that, although I doubt the fanbase’s mixed response to the Dominion/Borg war is the deciding factor in either timeline for the production crews to not build on what the series established for the state of the Quadrant, and beyond. Every series IOTL was at least attempting for independence as a show, among other things — both franchise fatigue and likely creative burnout being chief among them. All of which makes me optimistic that setting up a sequel with Shelby can breath new life into the franchise.
As for the Borg War being their magnum opus....maybe it's like that ITTL for the fans, but I think they left enough loose ends and questions that the sequel series would be held up to par with TNG, especially with its DS9-like tone and intrigue. Competition with Babylon 5 could also be a major factor in their push towards more complex stories, so in a way, the sequel series could end up being the magnum opus of Star Trek like DS9 of our timeline. Hopefully the writing could extend towards future shows like Voyager and Enterprise, but we'll see whether the writers/producers will pull through or if they're going to struggle like OTL.
I dunno about the Borg War ITTL, but the Dominion War was definitely feeling like such for the franchise — or at least, a solid definitive conclusion for numerous fans to drop off from, and a Tough Act to Follow for future series that didn’t intend to build on, let alone escalate FURTHER (not that I blame them). In fairness not everyone will follow the new direction of the sequel (least of all those who dislike TTL’s developments), but the creative burst that TNG appears to be getting can only be beneficial going forward, overall anyway.
I mentioned Section 31, but I don't know...do we really them to exist in this story if there's no stories that involve the Federation doing away with their values? Perhaps not. Heck, maybe Shelby or some other officials in Starfleet Intelligence could prevent the rise of something like Section 31 from arising within their ranks.
All interesting thoughts.
I doubt Wells will die in that helicopter crash, unless Geekhis wills it for some reason. The butterflies have probably changed his life enough that the incident might not even happen or he skips the event. Personally, I think he has a significantly higher chance of dying from climbing Mount Everest than the helicopter crash ITTL, since that's the last mountain he wanted to climb, IIRC. He will try again unless politics or work prevent him from doing that.

Alternatively, I had the strange scenario at the top of my head where if the same events play out, then Frank Wells gets on the other helicopter by chance and Clint Eastwood dies in that helicopter accident in 1994. Obviously, that's not the most optimal way of saving Frank Wells though.
I agree; if the butterflies have gone as far as to avert things like car crash deaths (Samantha Smith, what’s-his-name from the Nine Old Men, etc.) then I don’t see In Spite of a Nail where Wells dies in the exact same circumstances happening. I did point out that he COULD die earlier, in a different way, or in the same year, or just a few years later than OTL. Hell, while the circumstances of Jim Henson’s narrow dodge with death hewed close to what we’re familiar with, it’s not like his fate if Dick Numis wasn’t there would be a one-for-one of his TOD, date, etc. (unless Geekhis confirm it would have); it just happened to be mighty similar (and was a needed catalyst to better take care of himself besides).
If this is a reference to Discovery AFAIK that show was set in the original chronology and not the Kelvin TL.
Um, no…? It’s a reference to Voyager, I literally said that. And I’m well aware that Discovery is a prequel within the original timeline… technically though, only the first two seasons are. See, to keep the show going but prevent clashing with canon (more than the brushing that already took place, with Archer and Spock featuring to certain degrees), season 3 onward (as I understand it) has the remaining lead cast wake from stasis for a few centuries, so the rest of the show happens well after every older show in the chronology has long ended.

Note also that Picard acknowledges the events that led to the Kelvin timeline’s very existence, as the destruction of Romulus is a huge plot point for Jean-Luc and the rest of the characters to contend with IIRC.
I agree that a lot of this has to do with franchise fatigue (with nearly 20 years of Star Trek) and the number of directions (spread amongst four different show.)
Mm-hm.
His death or lack there of is literally a butterfly effect, with all the changes to the TL will have a knock on affect on weather patterns meaning the storm that killed him OTL may never happen.
That seems a stretch, but then again Clint Eastwood may not even arrange the meet that led to the helicopter crash, let alone with Frank specifically. Though if that’s remotely relevant to TTL, we can only guess until Geekhis gets there.
I think having a covert dirty works organization with plausible deniability like Section 31 is necessary so the Federation can have their values. And anyway if we're to believe Enterprise Section 31 has existed since the beginning and with absolutely no accountability, something that we could change ITTL. It would make no sense to not have such an organization and most every other foreign power does.

Like I said above weather patterns are completely different ITTL meaning the storm that prevented him from climbing Everest may never happen along with the storm that killed him in1994.
Can’t say much for either of the above.
 
I'm well aware that his Everest attempt occurred in 1983/84 but considering that the original PoD occurred in 1980 leaves plenty of time for the flap of a butterfly’s wings in Brazil to set off a tornado in Texas.
Personally, I don't think butterflies would be this fragile (have this one decision happen and suddenly Frank Wells gets to climb Everest), but I'm going to leave it to author's discretion for this one.

Precisely that, although I doubt the fanbase’s mixed response to the Dominion/Borg war is the deciding factor in either timeline for the production crews to not build on what the series established for the state of the Quadrant, and beyond. Every series IOTL was at least attempting for independence as a show, among other things — both franchise fatigue and likely creative burnout being chief among them. All of which makes me optimistic that setting up a sequel with Shelby can breath new life into the franchise.
Perhaps not, but having a war be explored in such capacity is no doubt groundbreaking for Star Trek. In a way, the writers are basically forced to stand up to the challenge that they created with the Borg War arc and elaborate on it in the sequels, with B5 and Star Wars rising to be huge rivals to the franchise. I'm also optimistic about the sequel's prospects because of this competition and creative drive that's occurring.

I dunno about the Borg War ITTL, but the Dominion War was definitely feeling like such for the franchise — or at least, a solid definitive conclusion for numerous fans to drop off from, and a Tough Act to Follow for future series that didn’t intend to build on, let alone escalate FURTHER (not that I blame them). In fairness not everyone will follow the new direction of the sequel (least of all those who dislike TTL’s developments), but the creative burst that TNG appears to be getting can only be beneficial going forward, overall anyway.
I can also see the Dominion War like that in the finale of DS9, with it concluding far more readily than something like the Borg War, where it will leave a lot of questions besides the political impact and the loss of life involved. It could also be the fact that they didn't really have any intentions of continuing the story that DS9 left behind with no Sisko or the rest of the cast. I guess that's the advantage of having a character or two like Shelby or Worf in the sequel series. Instantly recognizable and easy for TNG Trekkies to come back and be invested in.
 
Interesting news. Desert Storm will be a go- wonder if they will push onto Baghdad this time? Wonder if the Soviets might get invovled as part of the UN op as a distraction tactic by Gorbachev?

Gorbachev as Soviet President- hum, the USSR is still terminal I think, but a EU style Federal Union might be doable?

Hopefully Buran will keep flying and be commerially viable ITTL so to provide decent income for the Union.
I considered butterflying the Kuwait invasion, perhaps having Bush negotiate a debt relief deal with Kuwait, but that may have only delayed it. You'll note that the invasion happens in the late spring iTTL rather than August (context with the other articles), as with Bush distracted with the Yugoslav, Russian, and Chinese changes (tune in tomorrow) he figured now was the time. And why 1990 like OTL? It's when the Iran/Iraq war debt was stifling his growth plans, the recession was hitting Iraq, and public dissatisfaction was at its highest. Depending on whom you read, either Saddam had been planning an invasion for a while and the debt crisis and slant drilling accusations were just the excuse while others say that it was a spur-of-the-moment desperation move to distract the populace. Either way, a combination of old revanchist claims to the region and the promise of lots of oil wealth to be easily grabbed from a small, weak neighbor who also happened to be your main debt holder...well, seems like the obvious play for an autocrat when you've convinced yourself that the US won't stop you. I don't plan to get too much into the weeds on the war and it will be more of a background event, though all the same players are on the field as it were. If the USSR joints the coalition it will be a pretty token force as he needs the bulk of the Army on hand to potentially prevent a civil war.

More on the USSR in the following years.

Okay, if Orion now owns Terminator outright, and they still own Robocop, then that means a Robocop Versus The Terminator film happening ITTL is extremely likely.
Interesting idea for sure.

Wells being able to climb Everest is kinda unlikely, given his expedition to Everest and subsequent failure happened in 1983. I doubt Henson's decision to join Disney would have a huge knock-on influence on weather patterns unless they're that fickle.
I'm well aware that his Everest attempt occurred in 1983/84 but considering that the original PoD occurred in 1980 leaves plenty of time for the flap of a butterfly’s wings in Brazil to set off a tornado in Texas.
Wells hasn't yet made it to the top of Everest ITTL. Everest was a really hard summit back then before all the "ladders" were put in, and the weather is pretty much always volatile there, from what I understand.
 
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Climbing Mount Everest isn't something that can be taken lightly. George Mallory's body wouldn't even be discovered until 1999. I'd hate for Wells to miss dying in a helicopter crash only to die and become one of Everest's collection of bodies.
 
Why do people forget about Starfleet Intelligence when discussing Section 31? They are a known Agency like the Obsidian Order and probably have the remit like the CIA/Mi6/‘Mossad etc etc to get up to all sorts of shady Ops without needing Section 31 on top.

Now if Section 31 where disgraced Intelligence Agents gone rogue then there is more story, esp if SI come to the Enterprise crew asking for help to capture them…
 
Wells hasn't yet made it to the top of Everest ITTL. Everest was a really hard summit back then before all the "ladders" were put in, and the weather is pretty much always volatile there, from what I understand.
Climbing Mount Everest isn't something that can be taken lightly. George Mallory's body wouldn't even be discovered until 1999. I'd hate for Wells to miss dying in a helicopter crash only to die and become one of Everest's collection of bodies.
Alright, so Wells did fail at climbing Mount Everest. Now that we got that out of the way, I do believe that he will try again, since climbing the Seven Summits has been his goal and he probably won't back down from doing so unless he's too old or too distracted to be doing that. Personally, I think it's possible that he could do it, especially for the 90s when he isn't starting to get into the politics game and his workload at Disney is lighter thanks to Kinsey. The man was pretty fit for his age and he could be practicing for another climb now.

Really up to Geekhis at whether he does actually live or die due to Everest or if he's just gonna skip it so Wells can focus on politics. I do like Frank Wells being a politician or (because butterflying away Arnold's term would be interesting), so I don't mind if he simply doesn't do that.

Why do people forget about Starfleet Intelligence when discussing Section 31? They are a known Agency like the Obsidian Order and probably have the remit like the CIA/Mi6/‘Mossad etc etc to get up to all sorts of shady Ops without needing Section 31 on top.

Now if Section 31 where disgraced Intelligence Agents gone rogue then there is more story, esp if SI come to the Enterprise crew asking for help to capture them…
Mainly it's because the nature of the work that the Tal Shiar and the Obsidian Order do would be highly unethical to Federation society and Starfleet if that was applied to a more public organization like Starfleet Intelligence. Section 31 only works because the vast majority of Starfleet officers don't really know of its existence and what they do.

Despite this, after looking back on my previous posts, I'm a bit on the fence on whether Section 31 should exist ITTL, since that was introduced at DS9. There's cases where Starfleet Intelligence becomes a much darker organization overall, resembling more like Section 31, with Starfleet officers objecting to their tactics but have to bite their lip knowing that this is necessary for the defence of the Federation. Alternatively, Section 31 could happen to separate the darker aspects of the Federation in a very clear manner and explain it as an independent, rogue like organization that does whatever it takes to keep the Federation safe.

Honestly, if the writers like Ira Behr are more ambitious, then they could do the former, since it's already been established in TNG, and it's likely they've done some very dark tactics against the Borg like making viruses that disconnect millions of drones from the Collective or experimental weapons that decimate Borg ships. It's possible that they could explore this even further in the sequel series and make them into an organization akin to the Tal Shiar and Obsidian Order.
 

wietze

Kicked
Mainly it's because the nature of the work that the Tal Shiar and the Obsidian Order do would be highly unethical to Federation society and Starfleet if that was applied to a more public organization like Starfleet Intelligence. Section 31 only works because the vast majority of Starfleet officers don't really know of its existence and what they do.

Despite this, after looking back on my previous posts, I'm a bit on the fence on whether Section 31 should exist ITTL, since that was introduced at DS9. There's cases where Starfleet Intelligence becomes a much darker organization overall, resembling more like Section 31, with Starfleet officers objecting to their tactics but have to bite their lip knowing that this is necessary for the defence of the Federation. Alternatively, Section 31 could happen to separate the darker aspects of the Federation in a very clear manner and explain it as an independent, rogue like organization that does whatever it takes to keep the Federation safe.

Honestly, if the writers like Ira Behr are more ambitious, then they could do the former, since it's already been established in TNG, and it's likely they've done some very dark tactics against the Borg like making viruses that disconnect millions of drones from the Collective or experimental weapons that decimate Borg ships. It's possible that they could explore this even further in the sequel series and make them into an organization akin to the Tal Shiar and Obsidian Order.
section 31 is quite different from SI, section 31 is almost the devils advocate and also the last line of defence. they are tasked with developing methods and tech that are far beyond the ethics of even SI.
and only to be used in cases of utmost urgency. section 31 shares that with an otl organisation like Gladio
i did like how in discovery Emperor Philippa Georgiou from the mirror universe, stranded in the trek timeline became part of section 31, giving them the ultimate different perspective.
 
Wait why would weather patterns be different?
Weather specifics are the classic example of butterfly effects (indeed, its sensitivity to initial conditions is the origin of the term "butterfly effect" in chaotic systems). For instance, right now it's hazy over a lot of the country because of fires. If those specific fires weren't started by a specific electrical short or a specific lightning strike or whatever, the temperatures, humidity, and such might be different across the US today. So maybe it will or won't rain someplace it otherwise will or won't, and so it is or isn't rainy when somebody's driving home and something happens which wouldn't otherwise. It's possible to broadly say, "It will probably be gray and rainy in the UK and Seattle, and hot in Death Valley" but specific weather is the classic example of changes which can be due to even small random shifts.
 
Wells being able to climb Everest is kinda unlikely, given his expedition to Everest and subsequent failure happened in 1983. I doubt Henson's decision to join Disney would have a huge knock-on influence on weather patterns unless they're that fickle.
Alright, so Wells did fail at climbing Mount Everest. Now that we got that out of the way, I do believe that he will try again, since climbing the Seven Summits has been his goal and he probably won't back down from doing so unless he's too old or too distracted to be doing that. Personally, I think it's possible that he could do it, especially for the 90s when he isn't starting to get into the politics game and his workload at Disney is lighter thanks to Kinsey. The man was pretty fit for his age and he could be practicing for another climb now.
I'm just gonna say that I want Frank Wells to survive here.

On Starfleet Intelligence, now I am picturing a work that's a James Bond Sci-Fi movie (no, not you, Moonraker) set in Star Trek's universe? That's novel for the HITHOM's audience. I suppose at least someone at Triad or Paramount would dig it.
 
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