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Which was what I was thinking. The whole gist of the butterfly effect is how a seemingly minor change can send ripples that cause big changes. And no change can be bigger than the Soviet Union surviving.
and utterly unrealistic in the context of this thread, butterfly ripples not only go in one direction, there are also counterripples neutralising some effects.
The collapse of the ussr was along time coming, and things happening very much different from otl is highly unlikely.
 
and utterly unrealistic in the context of this thread, butterfly ripples not only go in one direction, there are also counterripples neutralising some effects.
The collapse of the ussr was along time coming, and things happening very much different from otl is highly unlikely.
If it’s unrealistic it’s unrealistic. Thanks for letting me know! I was just letting my imagination get the better of me.
 
At the moment they're actual working studios, sets, and sound stages for live action film and TV. The Ghostbusters sequel will take advantage of a New York City set.
Awesome! I guess Disney will naturally expand the studios in the meantime alongside Universal with their upcoming Florida studio. In that case I can see both studios be more invested in actually turning Florida into the "Hollywood of the East" because they're actually legitimate studios first instead of veritable theme parks unlike OTL (USF might be a real film studio as no Disney-MGM in 1989 will cause them to retain their original plans and not turn it into a theme park). Hopefully this continues as both companies lobby the local state government for continued incentives and support.

I do think Disney should expand their Animation Studio to Orlando though, as they could produce more animated films or TV shows if they allowed a branch to be set up there. It's unlikely that they will expand more than that as I doubt that Disney Animation will follow the same business model that they followed OTL (feature films followed by low quality VHS sequels).
 
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Which was what I was thinking. The whole gist of the butterfly effect is how a seemingly minor change can send ripples that cause big changes. And no change can be bigger than the Soviet Union surviving.
Unless of course you're hoping to propose some 'Mister Henson Goes To Moscow' content and associated Soviet media.
I was thinking that both all the pop culture changes will change the American political landscape, if only in the way that Americans think, and those changes will have butterflying effects on World politics. One of these pop culture is that Samantha Reed Smith is still alive and a part of one of the biggest sci-fi shows at the time and probably still doing good will work in the Soviet Union.
 
Ha, I hope we get a quote from Bernie’s book on how he felt about those hearings, it oughta be entertaining.

Good stuff! Are these laws that have been passed different from OTL?
 
I've suggested before that DisneySea's haunted attraction be a ghost ship. I have another idea. Namely a haunted hotel. Because there's quite a bit of humor that can be squeezed out of the hotel setting along with the various spooks.
 
I've suggested before that DisneySea's haunted attraction be a ghost ship. I have another idea. Namely a haunted hotel. Because there's quite a bit of humor that can be squeezed out of the hotel setting along with the various spooks.

I think OTL Disney beat you to the punch on that count. Disneysea is the home to the Tower of Terror, which is costumed as Highwater Hotel.
 
I think OTL Disney beat you to the punch on that count. Disneysea is the home to the Tower of Terror, which is costumed as Highwater Hotel.
That's a thrill ride. I was talking about an attraction with the classic Haunted Mansion feel set in a hotel. Which would justify having a bunch of international spooks enjoying their afterlife vacation.
 
I've suggested before that DisneySea's haunted attraction be a ghost ship. I have another idea. Namely a haunted hotel. Because there's quite a bit of humor that can be squeezed out of the hotel setting along with the various spooks.

Can they use the Queen Mary for that I wonder? There is a lot of the stern section that is unused for the Hotel functions of the ship?

Speaking of which Queen Mary need an overhaul so the Hotel functions are separate from the attraction sections, so Hotel guests get access to exclusive features like a pool, gym etc and are separated from the tourists. More needs to be made of her historic areas in situ not in exhibits. Adding an 'engine' back on-board for a 'power-train' tour and let her generate her own power (carefully hidden modern generators, but use the dials/switches/boilers so it fakes it) so she generates smoke from the funnels and seem more 'alive'. Basically, everything outlined here: www.sterling.rmplc.co.uk/visions/decks.html

.0
 
Can they use the Queen Mary for that I wonder? There is a lot of the stern section that is unused for the Hotel functions of the ship?

Speaking of which Queen Mary need an overhaul so the Hotel functions are separate from the attraction sections, so Hotel guests get access to exclusive features like a pool, gym etc and are separated from the tourists. More needs to be made of her historic areas in situ not in exhibits. Adding an 'engine' back on-board for a 'power-train' tour and let her generate her own power (carefully hidden modern generators, but use the dials/switches/boilers so it fakes it) so she generates smoke from the funnels and seem more 'alive'. Basically, everything outlined here: www.sterling.rmplc.co.uk/visions/decks.html

.0
My idea regarding the ghost ship haunted house was that it took the form of an ocean liner in a dry dock for maintenance. That way you could continue on the Disney tradition of having the outside be spick-and-span while the inside would be decrepit. Plus if it's anything like the classic Haunted Mansion it'd need a large show building to actually house the ride. Which, needless to say. the Queen Mary can't handle it. So while it may be modeled somewhat after the classic ocean liner it wouldn't be on the ocean liner.
 
Summer '89 Action Films
The 6 Best Non-Franchise (at the time) Action Films 1989
From Six in Violence Netsite, November 23th, 1999


Yea, we all remember Back to the Future 2 or Ghostbusters 2 or Willow 2 or Lethal Weapon 2 or Star Trek 5 or Indiana Jones 3. But what about those non-franchise films? So here we go again, another Six in Violence, this time for 1989.

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#6 Farewell to the King: It has been called “Milius’ Apocalypse Now”, which is screamingly ironic given that Apocalypse Now was a Milius passion project to begin with. Farewell to the King underperformed at the box office where its dark tones alienated audiences and where it was ironically unfairly compared to Apocalypse Now by critics, but has become a beloved cult classic since, even as controversy surrounds it. Farewell to the King is the story of American WWII deserter Learoyd (Nick Nolte) who escapes a Japanese death squad and becomes the God King of a tribe of Bornean headhunters because his blue eyes are seen as divine. As their God King, Learoyd decides to fight the British rather than rejoin the war or western society. It’s a dark and moody film that addresses issues of civilization vs. savagery, freedom vs. servitude, and human nature. Some have called it a racist film that promotes white superiority with its use of some old 19th Century tropes[1], while others see it as a justified criticism of the hypocrisies of western “civilization”. Like other Milius films, it has become a darling of the political right. And it nearly didn’t come to be as we know it, for original distributors Orion got into an editing war with Milius[2]. Thankfully Universal stepped in and took over the production, allowing Milius to edit his own picture in exchange for doing the third Conan film. Despite its controversy and problematic tropes, Farewell to the King is a moody and atmospheric film and, in my opinion, truly is Milius’s Apocalypse Now.

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#5 The Set Up: So, this movie did well at the theaters but mediocre with the critics. Audiences loved the buddy-cop chemistry between Patrick Swayze’s Ray Tango and Bruce Willis’s Gabe Cash[3], even if the script was crapped on by critics. But yea, Swayze’s slick charm as the fancy, wealthy Beverly Hills detective and Willis’s “everyman” charm as the blue collar LA cop meshed well, and that makes this amazingly violent buddy cop popcorn flick, well, pop. It follows the two mismatched cops as they get (you guessed it) set up for a murder, wrongly imprisoned, and then have to escape from prison and clear their names by defeating the evil crime lord Yves Perret (Jack Palance) who had set them up to begin with. It is violent as hell in the most ‘80s action movie way possible, pushing the bounds even for an R rating. It found a new life in VHS and VCD and remains a cult classic today.

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#4 Honey, I Shrunk the Kids!: Sometimes a film that begins as one thing becomes another. Honey, I Shrunk the Kids, the sequel to 1986’s InnerSpace, began as a completely different script titled “Teeny Weenies” written by Stuart Gordon and produced by Brian Yuzna. And originally the main character was named Wayne Szalinski and was a freelance inventor who lived in Fresno, and was reportedly written with Chevy Chase in mind. However, once Gordon and Yuzna brought the film to Disney, the resemblance to the popular 1986 Disney film was unmistakable, so Wayne Szalinski was changed to be Jack Putter from the earlier film, a role reprised by Rick Moranis. And yes, technically this was already a franchise film when it released, but you didn’t know that now, did you? Anyway, Putter, now living in Fresno, is trying to reinvent the shrinking technology, which was seized by the government as “dangerous” after the events of the prior film. And while there is a brief cameo by Lt. Tuck Pendleton (Jeff Bridges), this film is all about Putter and his kids, whom he accidentally shrinks in a system test. The rest of the film follows the kids as they navigate the dangers of their own back yard and try to reunite with their dad so that he can re-enlarge them, with a small subplot involving Putter attempting to hide his shrinking technology from a snooping Government Agent. The effects are incredible for the era and the film has just the right mix of scary, fun, and exciting for a family audience, unlike the rest of the films on this literally bloody list. It was a big hit in theaters, spurred a reframing and update to the InnerSpace ride at the Living Body Pavilion in addition to other immersive “big backyard” attractions at the Disney parks. The film was a favorite on VHS and VCD and spawned two sequels, even if it has fallen a bit out of the public eye in recent years.

220px-Tower-heist-movie-poster-hi-res-01-405x600.jpg

Similar to this, but as a Late '80s flick

#3 Manhattan Transfer[4]: Next is an ensemble heist action-comedy and modern-day Robin Hood story out of Paramount fronted by Eddie Murphy. The action follows a team of former employees of Franklin Toys who lost their jobs when their Brooklyn-based company was bought out and dismembered for a quick buck by corporate raider Jason Burnes (Michael Douglas[5], playing the in-universe “guy that Gordon Gekko was based on” in a double-meta-joke bit off stunt casting). Angry about it all and ready to “take back what’s ours”, Murphy’s Cedrick Lawrence, a former shipping manager, recruits charismatic shift foreman Lamar Kingman (Richard Pryor), genius accountant Schlomo Rosen (Gene Wilder, who also directed), snarky factory maintenance tech “Jersey” Jim Mattocks (Bruce Willis), and electronics prodigy Clarence Clay (a then largely unknown Don Cheadle) in a scheme to steal all of the money that Burnes made from the raid and redistribute it among the former Franklin workers. This ends up requiring the team to break into Burnes’s Manhattan penthouse suite past his extensive security systems and guards in order to hack his home office computer, all so that Rosen can institute a clandestine wire transfer of all of the millions in ill-gotten funds to a third-party account. The film is a pretty by the numbers heist film, but is also one hell of a lot of fun, with excellent comedy and chemistry between its ensemble actors. And thus, it did well both at the box office and on home media even. It’s been kind of forgotten following a spate of similar films in the 1990s and 2000s, but it remains one of the best in the genre and one of my personal favorites.

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#2 Roadhouse: For second place we have a second so-over-the-top-it’s-good action flick, in this case the film that was marketed as a “Honky Tonk Cocktail” in reference to the hit Hyperion drama of the prior year. Like Cocktail it’s set in a bar (well, a roadhouse) and it features an old mentor (Sam Elliott) teaching an edgy young New Kid (Mickey Roarke) the rules of the road. Oh, and they’re bouncers, not bartenders. Bouncers that literally kick ass. Like The Set Up, it is violent as hell. And it’s not a gritty drama like Cocktail, it’s a full-on martial arts flick with leather-clad bikers instead of ninjas. High kicks, flying punches, and even a torn-out larynx ensue. This is quite possibly the manliest movie ever made. If it was any more hyper-masculine it would veer into Gay and I’d have to pass it along to Dirk and Donny. In fact, it’s so fucking over the top that you’d swear it was a parody of violent ‘80s action flicks if it wasn’t so obviously taking itself hyper-seriously. This film is loved, mocked, and loved and mocked at the same time, and deservedly so. In fact, make a double-feature of this and The Set Up and you will get to enjoy The Last of the Breed, two transition pieces that capture that quintessential ‘80s-ness at a time when that was already on the way out.

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#1 Bill & Ted’s Excellent Adventure: And finally, it’s the little movie that refused to not be made! Bill & Ted began as a most excellent stand-up sketch by comedians Ed Solomon and Chris Matheson, which the duo converted to a sweet screen play called “Bill & Ted’s Time Van” in, like, ’87, dudes. Director Steven Herek called it “laugh out loud” funny and noted that it was, like, “either going to be a huge hit or a huge flop.” Like, whoa! The bodacious screenplay was about to be taken up by Fantasia Films, but like instead got picked up by De Laurentiis Entertainment due to a bizarre set of circumstances like way too complex to explain here, bro. Then the time travelling van idea, later a ’66 Chevy, was deemed too much like the DeLorean from Back to the Future, so this got changed to a much more totally original idea of a time travelling phone booth. Um, did someone, like, call a Doctor? Hey, at least it wasn’t, like, blue and bigger on the inside, yea? And yea, I can totally already see the comments loading up with “but Bill & Ted isn’t an action movie!” It’s got action. It’s close enough. I like this movie. It’s righteous. Piss off. Anyway, after like totally auditioning literally hundreds of actors, Solomon and Matheson found Keanu Reeves and they knew immediately that they’d found their Ted. Reeves had been on the hook to star in Young Guns, but had to drop out due to an unexpected rescheduling of the principal photography date. Several more auditions found their Bill in Alex Winter, someone they’d totally dismissed the first time through but decided to give one more chance. After searching through the rolls of glamorous rock stars to play Rufus, they ended up discovering George Carlin. It was like fate; preordained. Or like if some sort of radical time traveler was, like, interfering to make it happen in just a certain way[6]. Fate even seemed to intervene when De Laurentiis Entertainment went bankrupt and was bought up by Hollywood Pictures/ABC. Michael Eisner at first wanted little to do with the puerile teen Sci-Fi comedy and was going to can it (bogus!), but the most righteous Jeffrey Katzenberg saw potential. His faith was rewarded when Bill & Ted became a hit, grossing $40.5 mill against a modest $6.5 mil budget. Fate can, like, have most strange but most excellent plans.



[1] Specifically, the one TVtropes.org calls “Mighty Whitey”.

[2] In our timeline Orion’s cut enraged Milius and “ruined” it in his opinion. Here another studio gives him the creative freedom he wants, but in return for another film. I’m assuming that his cut has better legs, but its hard to say given subjectivity and the blindness of creators for their own work.

[3] Yes, this is essentially this timeline’s Tango & Cash.

[4] Original to this timeline! With Harlem Nights done a year Pryor…err…prior and Beverly Hills Cop not really a “thing” in this timeline, Murphy and Pryor decided to have some fun in the gap in his schedule.

[5] Blame Ms. Khan again!

[6] “No way!” you say? Yes way! Unlike every other production in this timeline, which you can assume to have at least some minor changes to dialog, editing, or other aspects, Bill & Ted’s Excellent Adventure is exactly the same, scene for scene, line for line, as the film we all know and presumably love. You can thank Mrs. Khan for this one too. She suggested “what if Bill & Ted was exactly the same movie?” Essentially, what if all the little butterflies piled up and seemingly conspired to result in the exact same film for all intents and purposes as we got in our timeline? And I’d never event talked about Second Order Butterflies with her! She framed it in Lebowskian terms, like the film just “abides” with the winds of allohistorical change. Consider this just a fun meta-humor bit and your ticket to not take all things in this timeline too seriously.



P.S.: RETCON ALERT. Taking a cue from @Mackon (thanks!), who made a good point about the BBC's public ownership at least insisting on a British Companion. So Lark Vorhees is out, and a different Companion is in.

 
Farewell to the King - not likely on ITTL me’s watch list. does sounds like something I might watch now I am older though.

The Set Up- hummm maybe, but I suspect that is an 18 in the UK, so not for a few years yet.

Honey, I Shrunk the Kids!- Saw that at the cinema, it was good fun. Didn’t realise the Innerspace connection, but ITTL me would.

Manhattan Transfer- that’s one heck of a cast. Seems fun. I could see my alt universe self watching it.

Roadhouse- maybe watched this on pirate after quite a few beers.

Bill & Ted’s Excellent Adventure- almost made by Fantastisa? Almost a shame, but then we might not have gotten such a awesome movie. Party on dude!

Carmen Ejogo- seems like a decent Companion. A British character might mollify the pits becoming American’ mob a little, maybe.

Fun chapter there @Geekhis Khan
 
My idea regarding the ghost ship haunted house was that it took the form of an ocean liner in a dry dock for maintenance. That way you could continue on the Disney tradition of having the outside be spick-and-span while the inside would be decrepit. Plus if it's anything like the classic Haunted Mansion it'd need a large show building to actually house the ride. Which, needless to say. the Queen Mary can't handle it. So while it may be modeled somewhat after the classic ocean liner it wouldn't be on the ocean liner.
Given the United States is idle and stripped down perhaps she could be brought to Long Beach and have both classic liners there? Queen Mary as the hotel/conference facility and United States as the attraction?
 
A lot of interesting stuff in the last two updates.

[4] Believe it or not, this happened to The Simpsons in our timeline, which were seen by moral crusaders as a direct assault on family values. George and Barbara Bush both weighed in with negative opinions of The Simpsons, the President famously saying in a speech how families should be “more like The Waltons and less like The Simpsons.” Needless to say, Matt Groening and company had fun with that one.
"We're just like the Waltons; we're praying for an end to the Depression too!"

Bill & Ted ending up exactly the same is great, but I think my favourite second order butterfly in this is:
so Wayne Szalinski was changed to be Jack Putter from the earlier film, a role reprised by Rick Moranis

P.S.: RETCON ALERT. Taking a cue from @Mackon (thanks!), who made a good point about the BBC's public ownership at least insisting on a British Companion. So Lark Vorhees is out, and a different Companion is in.

You know, there was so much fuss over the Americans that I didn't even register that Voorhies would be the first POC companion (on screen -- there was previously Sharon in the comic strip), so I'm glad we haven't lost that.
 
Wow, this contains a lot of stuff I never expected even by AH standards. Swayze and Willis in Tango and Cash? Honey being a sequel to Innerspace? THIs below?
220px-Tower-heist-movie-poster-hi-res-01-405x600.jpg

Similar to this, but as a Late '80s flick

#3 Manhattan Transfer[4]: Next is an ensemble heist action-comedy and modern-day Robin Hood story out of Paramount fronted by Eddie Murphy. The action follows a team of former employees of Franklin Toys who lost their jobs when their Brooklyn-based company was bought out and dismembered for a quick buck by corporate raider Jason Burnes (Michael Douglas[5], playing the in-universe “guy that Gordon Gekko was based on” in a double-meta-joke bit off stunt casting). Angry about it all and ready to “take back what’s ours”, Murphy’s Cedrick Lawrence, a former shipping manager, recruits charismatic shift foreman Lamar Kingman (Richard Pryor), genius accountant Schlomo Rosen (Gene Wilder, who also directed), snarky factory maintenance tech “Jersey” Jim Mattocks (Bruce Willis), and electronics prodigy Clarence Clay (a then largely unknown Don Cheadle) in a scheme to steal all of the money that Burnes made from the raid and redistribute it among the former Franklin workers. This ends up requiring the team to break into Burnes’s Manhattan penthouse suite past his extensive security systems and guards in order to hack his home office computer, all so that Rosen can institute a clandestine wire transfer of all of the millions in ill-gotten funds to a third-party account. The film is a pretty by the numbers heist film, but is also one hell of a lot of fun, with excellent comedy and chemistry between its ensemble actors. And thus, it did well both at the box office and on home media even. It’s been kind of forgotten following a spate of similar films in the 1990s and 2000s, but it remains one of the best in the genre and one of my personal favorites.
Never did I expect this kind of thing in the thread. Part of me thinks this will get remade as Tower Heist.
 
Agreed, though that's butterfly permitting.

Also, anyone got the time to make/want to see a fanmade poster of Manhattan Transfer, done in the hand-drawn charm of the 80's style?

Now for some comments on Honey, which I had been waiting for, NGL.
1. Does Joe Johnston still direct, or someone else? I'd still watch this either way.
2. I can only imagine what the sequels are like.
 
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#4 Honey, I Shrunk the Kids!: Sometimes a film that begins as one thing becomes another. Honey, I Shrunk the Kids, the sequel to 1986’s InnerSpace, began as a completely different script titled “Teeny Weenies” written by Stuart Gordon and produced by Brian Yuzna. And originally the main character was named Wayne Szalinski and was a freelance inventor who lived in Fresno, and was reportedly written with Chevy Chase in mind. However, once Gordon and Yuzna brought the film to Disney, the resemblance to the popular 1986 Disney film was unmistakable, so Wayne Szalinski was changed to be Jack Putter from the earlier film, a role reprised by Rick Moranis. And yes, technically this was already a franchise film when it released, but you didn’t know that now, did you? Anyway, Putter, now living in Fresno, is trying to reinvent the shrinking technology, which was seized by the government as “dangerous” after the events of the prior film. And while there is a brief cameo by Lt. Tuck Pendleton (Jeff Bridges), this film is all about Putter and his kids, whom he accidentally shrinks in a system test. The rest of the film follows the kids as they navigate the dangers of their own back yard and try to reunite with their dad so that he can re-enlarge them, with a small subplot involving Putter attempting to hide his shrinking technology from a snooping Government Agent. The effects are incredible for the era and the film has just the right mix of scary, fun, and exciting for a family audience, unlike the rest of the films on this literally bloody list. It was a big hit in theaters, spurred a reframing and update to the InnerSpace ride at the Living Body Pavilion in addition to other immersive “big backyard” attractions at the Disney parks. The film was a favorite on VHS and VCD and spawned two sequels, even if it has fallen a bit out of the public eye in recent years.
Will the game Grounded have some connection to this franchise ITTL?
 
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