Status
Not open for further replies.
Every day is "Soft Pitch" on AHitHoM. Any ideas you have, let me know. Hat tips are the only compensation.
...given how you indirectly confirmed that Full House still happened ITTL, would it be out of the realm of probability for John Stamos to successfully get the Olsen Twins fired (I don't know when he tried IOTL, but if I had to ballpark, I think it was around 1990; I might be wrong), but this winds up indirectly causing the show to get cancelled earlier (since it lasted until 1995 basically because of the Olsens)?
 
Last edited:
I like Sega in Triad as well.
...given how you indirectly confirmed that Full House still happened ITTL, would it be out of the realm of probability for John Stamos to successfully get the Olsen Twins fired (I don't know when he tried IOTL, but if I had to ballpark, I think it was around 1990; I might be wrong), but this winds up indirectly causing the show to get cancelled earlier (since it lasted until 1995 basically because of the Olsens)?

If he does that, and that is the result, watch him get blacklisted by Hollywood. If he gives the excuse that he thinks the Twins were being exploited, and then Henson buys that excuse, and gives him shelter as, say, part of Jay Leno's band on The Tonight Show, it'll blow up even worse when Henson tries to take it to court and finds out nothing funny was going on away from the camera during Discovery.

Warner Bros' Lawyer: There willl be no settlement on our end. Either you join our movement for dismissal with prejudice and publicly accept the claims of our countersuit, or we proceed to court, and the court of public opinion, too.
 
Assuming Disneyland Valencia opens in 1992 like OTL Henson may be inspired to import various Spanish tv shows either redubed or remaded for American audiences
Good fast opinions include The Authentic Adventures of Professor Thompson
La corona mágica (The Magic Crown)
Bobobobs
Mort & Phil
A possible choice for remaking: ¡Ay, Señor, Señor! (Oh, Lord, Lord!)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/¡Ay,_Señor,_Señor!
 
...given how you indirectly confirmed that Full House still happened ITTL, would it be out of the realm of probability for John Stamos to successfully get the Olsen Twins fired (I don't know when he tried IOTL, but if I had to ballpark, I think it was around 1990; I might be wrong), but this winds up indirectly causing the show to get cancelled earlier (since it lasted until 1995 basically because of the Olsens)?
Eh, from my understanding, him wanting them fired/taken off set was more a really minor moment of frustration on his part during the film filming of the early episodes of the first season (it may have in fact have been the pilot, if I'm not mistaken) due to them constantly crying during one take that he eventually took back once he calmed down and admittedly saw that the scene and things didn't work with a couple of different baby actresses they brought on. I don't see any reason why Stamos would actually successfully get the Olsen Twins fired ITTL, as the moment he calms down from his frustration and sees they were the best baby actresses available, he will probably change his tune about wanting them fired like in OTL.

Plus, as the article mentions, they were the only kids who didn't cry during the audition, which got them the part. It's quite unlikely the producers would want to go through that again over what is essentially a minor frustrated fit by Stamos, especially when he is likely to regret it as in OTL and take it back.
 
Last edited:
I actually had an idea regarding the Epic of Gilgamesh pitch: Jason David Frank in the title role, maybe? Since MMPR isn't gonna happen in the same way it did ITTL (the Zyuranger adaptation is probably gonna be just another standard Bio-Force season), why not have JDF's breakout role be on the big screen; he would fit surprisingly well in what's meant to be a throwback to Harryhausen-style "sword and sandal".


Then again, another of my more odd ideas involves JDF becoming so invested in his role he becomes a Mesopotamian neopagan, so feel free to ignore that one. lol
 
Assuming Disneyland Valencia opens in 1992....
Didn't Marty Sklar hint that Valencia would open at least by 1990? Then again there could always be delays.

Spanish media on the Disney Channel would be interesting, although I doubt there would be a deluge of dubbed foreign media just because of Valencia, unless the same thing happened with French media when Euro Disneyland was opened.

That's a fair point.
If Bio-Force is more like a standard Sentai with no continuity with the next series, then JDF could just be in the Zyuranger adaptation and then go on to do that Epic of Gilgamesh pitch if needed.
 
although I doubt there would be a deluge of dubbed foreign media just because of Valencia, unless the same thing happened with French media when Euro Disneyland was opened.
I figure the difference between OTL and ITTL would be the presence of Henson at Disney. As for the deluge I not talking a complete deluge of redubs and remakes but honestly why not, attempt to make Americans more cosmopolitan.
 
If Bio-Force is more like a standard Sentai with no continuity with the next series, then JDF could just be in the Zyuranger adaptation and then go on to do that Epic of Gilgamesh pitch if needed.
Yeah, that actually makes more sense: JDF does Bio Force: Dino Warriors (what I imagine Zyuranger's adaptation would be called), which (if Sentai/Rangers airing schedules are anything like IOTL) runs from 1993-1994, then some higher up hands him the script for The Epic of Gilgamesh, trying to get him onboard.
 
Yeah, that actually makes more sense: JDF does Bio Force: Dino Warriors (what I imagine Zyuranger's adaptation would be called), which (if Sentai/Rangers airing schedules are anything like IOTL) runs from 1993-1994, then some higher up hands him the script for The Epic of Gilgamesh, trying to get him onboard.
I guess that's one advantage of a more Sentai-like franchise like Bio-Force compared to Power Rangers but I do feel kinda sad that we're gonna butterfly away stuff like Lord Zedd and the overarching plots. Not to mention we leave our iconic cast members out of a long-running job, assuming the casting is the same ITTL (unlikely, but welcome).

Although Sentai is very much known for recasting the same actors in different roles (one example is Shiro Izumi who was ChangePegasus and the Dragon Ranger and Yuuta Mochizuki who was J1 of the Neo-Jetman as well as TyrannoRanger), so it would be morbidly interesting to see people like David Yost, Austin St. John, JDF, and others be shuffled into some random ranger role in a different season like Dairanger, Ohranger, Megaranger, and etc.

Could David Yost become a Red Ranger in this timeline....? Food for thought. 😜

As for the original Bio-Force V (i.e. the Bioman adaptation), while Zordon probably wasn't part of the original pilot, I kinda hope that Haim Saban or Disney could've changed the series so he could be included (either as Zordon or Zoltar) since Alpha-5 (OTL Peebo) probably can't carry the mentor role very well. He could even be the brother to Zedar, the primary villain of the series, being the last remnant of the ancient civilization (maybe the progenitors of the ITTL Morphin' Grid and a nod to Choudenshi Bioman's plot) before helping the humans defeat Zedar once and for all, but not before dying and passing on his powers to the next generation of heroes, kickstarting the franchise.

It's a pretty shameless explanation to just include Zordon and the Zord term, but I love both of them and it doesn't feel right that they're missing from a Power Rangers franchise, you know.

1615711073951.png

Plus the Bio Megazord is a much more epic name for Bio Robo than the Bio Megadroid, imo.
 
Last edited:
(Also, for those who are curious, I'm just expanding on @Denliner's Epic of Gilgamesh idea he suggested all the way back on page 184 or so. I'll message you on the ideas I have, if you're interested, Den.)
 
Muppetational!
Chapter 14; A Lazer Show on Broadway
Excerpt from Renegade Suit, the autobiography of David Lazer (with Jay O’Brian).


Working for Jim Henson is a little like a nicer version of working for Vito Corleone—you’re never really “out” of the business. I’d “retired” in ’84, but by ’88 Jim and Bernie were pulling me back in. My time off had helped me to recover somewhat from my symptoms, and I was ready to help out. Thankfully I didn’t even need to move back to LA, as Jim and Bernie needed me in New York! I was now a “Creative Associate” and the VP of Northeast Regional Management for the Walt Disney Entertainment Company. Essentially, I was there to keep an eye on things in the US Northeast.

First on the list was to swing down to Philadelphia where I met Jim, Dick Nunis, and John Hench (who’d just inherited the Chair and Presidency of the I-Works after Carl Bongirno’s retirement) at the airport. After all the drama between Jim and Dick the last time I’d seen them together, seeing them paling around like best friends was a surreal, but welcome sight. I took them to Sesame Place, and rather than slip in the staff entrance, Jim led us right through the front gate! A park worker (and old friend of Brian’s when he worked there in 1980) named Bill Barretta recognized Jim and immediately rushed to show us around. He showed us the interactive Oscar the Grouch audio-animatronic (which Jim loved) and made enough of an impression that Jim asked me to find a place for him[1] (I took him to Jane and he became one of our most popular new Muppet Performers). Disney’s management had been kind to the Little Park that Could and Sesame Place was definitely a league above where it had been in 1980, with real rides, walkaround characters, and a full-sized replica of Sesame Street itself, named Sesame Neighborhood. But Jim, Dick, and John had even bigger plans.

340

Sesame Neighborhood (Image source “muppet.fandom.com”)

Sesame Place was going to be the nucleus of a grand experiment, a 30-acre Disneyland in miniature. They called it “The Philadelphia Experiment” and it would be the first Disneytown. The rides would be few and aimed mostly at younger children and their parents, but it would be a place to meet the characters and get a taste of the magic. There’d be rotating shows and attractions and audio-animatronics that changed from year to year (a sample of what the Real Disney had to offer!). There’d be an arcade for games, video and skill alike. And the admission price would be low enough for multiple visits per year by even the most financially challenged families. It hardly held a candle to the “Real Deals” in Kissimmee and Anaheim, but for parents of young children it was a chance to affordably visit something local (or near-local) that could be seen in half a day and get your younger kids home before The Crash[2].

After dark, the shows would change to things more appropriate for teens and adults, and the arcades, shops, restaurants, and games would stay open while the rides shut down. There’d be a Cyclia In Miniature for music and dancing. There’d (obviously) be a Disney Store. Finally, the park would be open in a reduced capacity in the cold winter, with indoor attractions running year-round, avoiding the three to four idle months of a typical northern theme park.

031212_NF_FS_DatelineDisney_1987_FEATURE_1_0.jpg

Vintage Disney Store (Image source “thewaltdisneycompany.com”)

The shops and restaurants would be a combination of Disney-owned and operated places and rental clients, making the whole arrangement as much a small mall as a theme park. Marriott would build an affordable hotel next door. The local politicians hoped that the Disneytown would be the nucleus of urban development, and so the City of Langhorne and other surrounding communities were contributing to the pot in an effort to spur economic growth. The EPA and State of Pennsylvania environmental department were brought in to assist in making sure that everything was as minimal impact as possible. We powered things as much as possible in that northern latitude by solar.

If it worked, it would be the first of many to sprout up around the world. It was hoped that the D-towns would whet the appetite for the “Real Deals” at Kissimmee and Anaheim rather that prevent people from going to them. In the end the attendance numbers would tell the story.

The next thing on my list was back in New York. First, I helped Bernie and Mel Brooks get The Producers started Off Broadway, but Bernie had a special plan ahead. We cut a deal with the City of New York to split the costs on refurbishing the old Palace Theater on Broadway as the launching point for a new Broadway show[3]. Let me tell you, the Palace was in poor shape! But by the time we were done it was back to its original glory, only with all-modern electronics and stage sets. The show we would debut there, a big surprise gift for Jim, was Muppetational!

Herbalpert_bossmen.jpg

Something like this, but Grander!! (Image source “rebelscum.com”)

Muppetational! was a glorious celebration of all things Muppet, from the early Sam & Friends stuff like “Inchworm”, “Mahna Mahna”, and “I’ve Grown Accustom to Your Face”, through all the psychedelic Nancy Sinatra stuff like Big Bossman, through The Muppet Show and movies, up to modern “Creature Shop/Creatureworks” animatronics. There would even be an appearance by Waldo C. Graphic, the first all-digital Muppet, projected as a simple hologram onto a fog machine cloud! Throw in a few classic and original songs and some choreography, and you had the show that Jim had wanted to do for years, but at a level even beyond his wildest dreams at the time.

Julie’s talents with indirect rod puppetry came in really handy, as we couldn’t just have a simple Kermit Muppet on stage. The audience in the back couldn’t see him! Se we scaled up all the classic Muppets to a scale even the top deck could see clearly. Muppetational Kermit was the size of Jabba the Hutt! It took 3-4 Muppet performers to animate each of these giant Muppets. Amazingly, Julie did it all with very few animatronics or Waldos. She just has a natural eye for clever rod linkages.

Bernie asked me to be the producer, but I wanted another person on board as my co-producer: Jane Henson. Jane was happy to once again be an active part of the Muppets, helping us pour through old sketches and offering guidance on how best to build and perform Sam, Yorick and Mushmellon and the other original Muppets. Heather even helped out after school and on the weekends. It was great visiting the old Muppet Workshop again and working again with the old crew, and great to work with Julie Taymor, an old Henson Foundation grantee, who was the obvious choice for director. At Bernie’s insistence we all but blackmailed Jim into working with us on it, in particular on the choreography with Jane and Norman Maen, and we thus got him both an executive producer credit and a choreography credit with Jane and Norman. The latter job, which involved figuring out how to get the Muppets and human performers to perform together, ultimately won him, Jane and Norman a Best Choreography Tony, one of several Muppetational! took home in 1990.

90
340

Julie Taymor, Director, and Norman Maen, Lead Choreographer for Muppetational! (Image sources “playbill.com” & “muppet.fandom.com”)

But the best part for me was seeing Jim and Jane working together again. They make such a good team and Jane honestly deserves more recognition for all the work she did over the years to help make the Muppets happen.


[1] Bill Barretta joined the Muppets team in our timeline in much the same way according to Barretta in Muppet Guys Talking.

[2] Every parent knows exactly what I’m talking about here. There’s a reason why Reptile World in Orlando made tons of money from exhausted parents by offering a chance to feed a mouse dyed like Mickey to a python—at least until Disney hit them with a “cease and desist” order.

[3] Michael Eisner would work the same deal in our timeline when he decided that Disney should be on Broadway in ’89. Here the same deal has happened earlier through a different route: Bernie Brillstein, who'd wanted to put Muppets on Broadway since the ‘70s.
 
Nice update! The concept of the 'Disney-towns' (maybe the name will morph into 'Disneyville' in the popular conception, even if it's never the official name) is a neat one; a bite-sized day trip attraction the virtually any family could visit without needing to plan that great multi-day cross-country 'trip to Disneyland' that was just part of American culture in the 90s (at least from my non-American perspective at the time). I particularly like the idea of rotating live shows, I assume the same crew moves with the show from D-town to town, rather than trying to learn each show per season!
Having nearly half the attractions in an indoor 'mall' setting is a great way to ensure the park can stay open during the winter. You can still see Kermit and Big Bird, you just can't ride Super-Grover's Coaster (check out 'flying coasters' online, there's a version that has single-passenger cars that can be fit in remarkably tight spaces).
 
Most sensational, Inspirational, Celebrational, most Muppetational! indeed- sounds like an amazing show, esp if the old Muppet team had a bit of a reunion. Hope Lew Grade got an invite to the opening! Was Frank Oz involved @Geekhis Khan

I like the Disney Towns concept, it allows them to put 'small parks' in places that would not get a full Disney experience. I can see one being built in say Birmingham, UK for example, or a Nordic themed one in Denmark, or a Toronto one etc etc.
 
I like the Disney Towns concept, it allows them to put 'small parks' in places that would not get a full Disney experience. I can see one being built in say Birmingham, UK for example, or a Nordic themed one in Denmark, or a Toronto one etc etc.
A Toronto location would probably affect the infant Canada's Wonderland in Vaughn in someway. Perhaps positively (staff of it start stepping it up) or negative (everyone goes to DT instead of there)
 
Considering the scale of Canada's Wonderland is so much larger than a Disneyville (there, I'm already using the slag), I would see them as complimentary rather than oppositional. I think Disney's direct competition would be with parks on the scale of Marineland in Niagara. The 'mall + outdoor rides' format of the Disney locations would make it a good fit for somewhere like Montreal and/or Vancouver where space might be more limited and weather a significant factor in your operating year.

Wonderland might have to stave off predation from 6-Flags if what I recall from earlier posts is anything to go by, I don't think they have the backing of Paramount TTL (which means no mountain in the middle of the park!).
 
I like the Disney Towns concept, it allows them to put 'small parks' in places that would not get a full Disney experience. I can see one being built in say Birmingham, UK for example, or a Nordic themed one in Denmark, or a Toronto one etc etc.
I hope Disneytown proves a success and Colorado gets one.
A Toronto location would probably affect the infant Canada's Wonderland in Vaughn in someway. Perhaps positively (staff of it start stepping it up) or negative (everyone goes to DT instead of there)
Instead of Toronto Disney instead puts Disneytown in Vancouver.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top