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While we're on the topic of projects TTL's Burton could be attached to, here's an idea I had (while I was bathing, incidentally): an earlier Hunchback of Notre Dame adaptation that's closer to the book. My ideas include:

-making it for Hyperion (meaning it'd be either hard T or light R).

-It'd be live-action with stop-motion/full-body by Creatureworks for the gargoyles (who will not fill the comic relief roles; the OTL ones, especially Hugo, got on my nerves).

-The actors for Esmeralda and Quasimodo would be white and Romani, respectively, owing to a twist in the book.

-Frollo would not be straight away evil, nor would he be a judge or elderly. He would remain a noble (if innocently bigoted as a result of his piety) archdeacon at the start; if OTL's songs are kept, "Hellfire" would be his jumping-off point, so to speak. He'd also be in his mid-30s as in the book (albeit stress is starting to affect his age).

Overall, there's similarities to OTL's stage musical.
 
Herding Cats
Chapter 4: Herding Cats
Excerpt from The Visionary and the Vizier, Jim Henson and Frank Wells at Disney, by Derek N. Dedominos, MBA.


The go-to description of Jim Henson as a creative leader has been to call him the “eye of a creative hurricane”. The secondary go-to description of Henson is as a “champion wrangler of cats.” These are useful shorthand descriptions, but they represent only the tip of the iceberg that is Henson’s managerial style.

Looking back over his creative career, the words that emerge are “emotional intelligence”, or the ability to interpret and react constructively to another person’s mental and emotional state. Time and time again Henson demonstrated his ability as a leader to listen to others and understand their needs and wants with empathy and compassion. And despite what many type-A leaders would assume, this is a critical managerial skill, particularly in the emotionally-driven entertainment industry. He has shown an ability to discuss projects with others in an open and non-confrontational manner, keeping egos in check and minimizing the likelihood of conflict. Over the years he developed tools for managing and resolving conflict where he once worked studiously to avoid it (the product of his time at Disney where interpersonal conflict was unavoidable). And he demonstrated an ability to gain buy-in with his employees, even his most creative and egocentric ones, by showing that he has heard them and understands them. He fostered a sense of teamwork while leaving room for individual creative visions. And he did so in ways so subtle that Henson often got his way in a disagreement while the other person walked away thinking that the final plan was their idea all along!

And when it became necessary to turn people down or reject an idea, he did so in an empathetic and constructive way, often with a simple well-placed grunt, that encouraged the person to accept the disappointment and to come back another time with an even better idea. He also encouraged folks to experiment, and if an employee went their own way to try something different, and if that employee’s way worked, Henson not only let it slide but thanked the employee for their insight.

“You can’t stay mad at him,” said animator Brad Bird in 1989. “You can’t even get mad at him most days! He has this genteel way of smiling and showing genuine interest in your ideas. He has a knack for digging through the details and finding the ones that worked and artfully letting you know which ones do not. You’ll walk in with a clear idea of what you want to happen, have a few words and inevitably a few laughs, and then walk out with a different clear idea, suddenly wondering what happened!”

I certainly doubt that I will shock any of my readers when I say that creative people can be stubborn, arrogant, and confrontational. It’s typically a combination of a big ego with a fragile sense of self-worth, which makes someone arrogant enough to assume that they’re a creative genius while simultaneously subconsciously terrified that they’re a fraud. Compounding this is the fact that many entertainment executives have the exact same pathologies (large but fragile egos), but have entirely conflicting goals compared to the artist. Where the creative artist wants the creative freedom and resources to enact their “singular vision”, the studio execs want things done as quickly, cheaply, and as mass-market as possible. This creates the eternal conflict between the creative artist and the profit-minded executive that is at the heart of nearly every creative dispute in Hollywood. And when such conflicts come to a head, particularly when big, fragile egos are involved, the results get stormy.

Henson, however, managed to avoid this cycle of confrontation. Rather than argue over points with the creative artist, he’ll put himself in their shoes, which as a long-running creative person himself was like second nature to him. He’ll listen more than he’d talk, and gather all of the facts. Only then did he determine what the needs of the creative artist were, and then align them to his overall creative strategy and to the fiscal needs and strategic vision of the Disney company.

“It’s like Aikido Management,” said Imagineer and designer Joe Rhode, a frequent collaborator, in a interview. “He talks with you about creative projects and he listens and he asks questions, and soon you’re answering his questions and getting new ideas and the two of you brainstorm something together that not only captures what you wanted to accomplish, but [accomplishes] other things that you hadn’t thought about until that very moment! It’s only days later that you realize that the other stuff was his ideas all along. If he hadn’t been so willing to let you bring your vision to life, and if you weren’t having so damned much fun with it all, then you’d almost feel manipulated!”

One instructive example of this management in action involves his longstanding relationship with writer, producer, director, and animator Terry Gilliam. Gilliam has a reputation in Hollywood as “difficult to work with”. He demands big budgets and then endeavors to spend what he originally asked for regardless of what he actually received, as if to prove a point. He demands creative control over the final cuts and makes his dissatisfaction with “studio cuts” well known in the press. He pushes back against any perceived management interference. And as a result, most studios loathe to work with him. Disney Studios under Jim Henson was the major exception. Henson and Gilliam had what the latter called “a creative understanding.” Gilliam was given a lot of free creative reign up front, and when Henson picked his battles with Gilliam, he did so in an understated way, approaching it as a “creative collaboration” rather than a boss-employee relationship.

On budgetary issues, rather than just give Gilliam the typical executive blanket statement of “you have this much, figure it out,” he worked up front and during production with Gilliam to balance creative need with the budget allocated by COO Frank Wells, who was himself happy to play the “bad guy” in the arrangement. Henson would then collaborate directly or through dedicated creative agents with Gilliam and the effects and cinematography team, coming up with creative ways to accomplish Gilliam’s “vision” within Wells’ budget constraints.

But most of all, he listened to Gilliam, allowing him to express his wants and frustrations without showing frustration or impatience himself, and then worked with him to plot a course. This not only let Gilliam know that his creative vision was appreciated, but that Henson and the rest of the creative leadership will willingly work with him to see it through. Thus, when irreconcilable conflicts did arise, they could be negotiated from a position of solidarity and not come preloaded with the stress and antagonism of past conflict, thus making the possibility for finding a mutually beneficial solution for the impasse far more likely.

Employees and collaborators have expressed their love for working with Jim Henson. Henson “made the work fun,” as many employees described it. The productive hours at the Disney studios improved significantly over where they’d been in the 1970s. Henson also encouraged individual creativity in his employees, encouraging them to develop, nurture, and share their unique creative artistry and pursue their own creative projects, even if they were for other studios. This resulted in a strong sense of loyalty that avoided long running feuds.

“Jim always makes you want to be more than what you currently are,” said longtime collaborator Frank Oz. “He not only recognized my desire to direct and gave me the encouragement and opportunity to do so, but he helped me to see my own limitations, particularly in dealing with other people, and did so in constructive ways that let me grow and excel as an artist. I had some opportunities with other studios and I took them, but I always come back to Jim and Disney.”

Henson also demonstrated an eye for talent and a talent for connecting talented people together, from seeing the potential of Frank Oz in Star Wars to his recognition of Tim Burton’s dark genius. He found ways to pair up mutually-reinforcing talent, such as linking Burton and Brian Froud together for The Black Cauldron. And showed an ability to find teams that can work together and avoid the type of ego clashes all too common in the creative arts.

Henson’s reputation for “being good with talent” became well known within the industry and creative artists that might have thought twice about working for Disney, whose reputation with talent had been frankly rather poor prior to Henson’s ascension, clamored for a chance to work with them.

“I doubt I ever would have worked with Disney if it hadn’t been for Jim,” said director and producer Steven Spielberg. “To be honest, in the early ‘80s following E.T. when I was thinking about expanding further children’s entertainment, I saw them as a potential rival. And then Lisa [Henson] guilted me into becoming a White Knight [in the 1984 ACC hostile takeover attempt]. Suddenly I’m a shareholder and an Associate Director! I’d never worked with Jim but knew many like George [Lucas] who had, and they always had great things to say. And they were right: he’s a sweet and engaging man, full of brilliant ideas and a childlike enthusiasm. We’d spend hours talking over ideas and things we’d like to see, like dinosaurs, and the ideas would just flow. Suddenly instead of Disney being the rivals, they were the go-to partners!”

“The biggest problem with Jim,” said then Disney Animation Vice President Roy Disney in a 1987 interview, “Is that there’s only one of him. He can’t be everywhere at once no matter how hard that he tries.”

Such stories became common, and Henson’s reputation reflected positively in the share price. Chairman, President, and COO Frank Wells began to openly advertise Henson’s contributions to the press and investors as a sign that the company was on as good of a creative footing as it was a fiscal one, highlighting their partnership that balanced the fiscal and creative forces and their mutual respect for one another. The Disney stock price continued its steep climb through the 1980s and proved less volatile than other creative stocks during the period.

“Disney is a solid investment,” Warren Buffet told the Wall Street Journal in 1989, “Despite the inherent volatility of the entertainment industry, Disney’s diversified mix of media, merchandise, and physical parks and hotels, each integrated in mutually-supporting ways, helps smooth out the peaks and valleys and creates a reliable long-term growth stock. Disney’s solid creative arm is continually coming up with good and marketable IP. If a single major project sputters, there will be three more to take its place.”

And it’s that last statement that is the true testament to Henson’s contribution as The Visionary to Wells’ Vizier. There’s a “culture of creativity” in place that keeps so many innovative projects in work on the big screen, small screen, and in the parks that the creative risk is defrayed.

This “diversified creative portfolio” did as much to position Disney for the future as Frank Wells’ solid fiscal and managerial plans. And creative managers across the entertainment industry and others would do well to pay attention to the Henson style of management, and by extension pay attention to the wants and needs of their creative employees.
 
Jim Henson and Terry Gilliam together sounds like they have a way to bring all of Gilliam's mad ideas to life! Looking forward to seeing more of what they come up with!

I like to work with Henson ITTL. Sounds like it would be awesome fun.

Good chapter @Geekhis Khan
 
I'd say this chapter summarizes everything I was hoping to see in this timeline, from Henson's newfound skill at conflict management instead of avoidance, Disney's diversification without dilution, and just a near-as-makes-no-difference ideal creative production company.

While we're on the topic of projects TTL's Burton could be attached to, here's an idea I had (while I was bathing, incidentally): an earlier Hunchback of Notre Dame adaptation that's closer to the book.
[snip]
Overall, there's similarities to OTL's stage musical.
I'm not sure why everyone gets so bent out of shape about OTL's Hunchback being 'not like the book' when it's pretty explicitly based on the musical also written by Hugo and thus better/easier to adapt.

I 100% agree with the removal or at the least toning down of the gargoyles, for myself -and many friends I've talked to- they are the weakest part of the movie, apparently added as part of a 'formula' of required elements for Disney animated films.
That said I actually think it might be a nice touch to keep them in but make it clear that they're only in Quasimodo's head as imagined people to talk to. As he meets and opens up to the other characters they increasingly remain mere statues on screen, even during those times Quasimodo's speaking to them, as a subtle hint that Quasi doesn't need them any more.
 
Considering we're in the era of smart slashers in the TL, I have if the next Texas Chainsaw film, if not another, could be like:
A kind of satire or social drama about the economic malaise, like how poverty and corporate greed could drive lower class people to crime to sustain themselves.

Also considering Peter Jackson and Tom Savini was considered to direct, maybe they could be in the chair?
 
Great story, and I’m really happy to see that Henson came around on some of the toy cartoons!

Having said that, as a long-time Transformers fan and a nitpicker, I have to question the “47 dead” number. I’m probably putting too much thought into this, but I’m going to run through the movie’s IOTL casualties:

(Caveats:
-I’m not counting Kup or Ultra Magnus, who were both reduced to pieces during the movie but were each reassembled and repaired within the next two scenes
-I’m not counting nameless generic characters, though they presumably weren’t included in the 47 number anyway, since ‘nameless generics killed’ would include the entire population of an inhabited planet
-I am still counting characters who were killed in the movie and then brought back in the following season of the cartoon, since at the time of the movie airing there would be no indication that those deaths weren’t permanent)

-Arblus and Kranix, the Lithonian scientists (2)
-The occupants of the Autobot shuttle (4) (6)
-Wheeljack and Windcharger (2) (8)
-Optimus Prime (1) (9)
-Megatron and company (6) (15)
-Starscream (1) (16)
-Unicron (1) (17)

-Possibly up to 6 Autobots (Red Alert, Smokescreen, Tracks, Mirage, Trailbreaker, Gears) and/or 1 Decepticon (Shockwave) who may have been planned or intended to die in script drafts and storyboards, and who could potentially be added to the killcount ITTL

Even if you include all of the storyboard deaths, that still only makes a total of 24 named casualties, three of which were new characters introduced in this movie.

TF:TM absolutely was a bloodbath as a result of staggeringly bad decisions made at Hasbro, but IMO 47 is just way too high a number.

(snip)

I'm not sure why everyone gets so bent out of shape about OTL's Hunchback being 'not like the book' when it's pretty explicitly based on the musical also written by Hugo and thus better/easier to adapt.

I 100% agree with the removal or at the least toning down of the gargoyles, for myself -and many friends I've talked to- they are the weakest part of the movie, apparently added as part of a 'formula' of required elements for Disney animated films.
That said I actually think it might be a nice touch to keep them in but make it clear that they're only in Quasimodo's head as imagined people to talk to. As he meets and opens up to the other characters they increasingly remain mere statues on screen, even during those times Quasimodo's speaking to them, as a subtle hint that Quasi doesn't need them any more.

I totally agree, though with one slight caveat – I’ve heard that, while it borrowed elements from Hugo’s musical, the Disney movie actually drew the most on the 1939 William Dieterle film adaptation. I think it was definitely for the best to change Esmerelda to an actual Romani instead of a kidnapped white girl, though. Oof. Also, I really like your idea for how to handle the gargoyles.
 
I kinda like the idea of doing a muppets version of The Hunchback, maybe with Sweetums as Quasimodo, Alan Rick as Frollo and maybe Catherine Zeta-Jones as Esmeralda. Beyond I have no idea how to incorporate the other muppets but this may inspire others.
 
I kinda like the idea of doing a muppets version of The Hunchback, maybe with Sweetums as Quasimodo, Alan Rick as Frollo and maybe Catherine Zeta-Jones as Esmeralda. Beyond I have no idea how to incorporate the other muppets but this may inspire others.
One of the Muppets will be Clopin, that's for sure.
 
The theme parks could still use them, but just as walk around characters.

On an unrelated note, am I the only only who love to see Tim Burton working with Neil Gaiman on the Endless?
Can Warner lure Burton over, I wonder. I say this as it was Karen Berger, the force behind Vertigo, who hired Gaiman in 1987 and I don't believe he was on Marvel's radar at that time.
It should be noted that I was referring to Tim Burton doing the art for Gaiman's Sandman/Morpheus comics at Marvel, not a movie (at least not yet).
Maybe there's more to the story here, but didn't Gaiman create Sandman and The Endless based on existing DC IP, e.g. the old Sandman character from the Golden Age (i.e. Wesley Dobbs)? Was there an existing idea from before that he merged into The Sandman for Vertigo? Also, I was pretty sure that Alan Moore recruited him. If so, assuming he went to Marvel, how would the Endless be different?

While we're on the topic of projects TTL's Burton could be attached to, here's an idea I had (while I was bathing, incidentally): an earlier Hunchback of Notre Dame adaptation that's closer to the book. My ideas include:

-making it for Hyperion (meaning it'd be either hard T or light R).

-It'd be live-action with stop-motion/full-body by Creatureworks for the gargoyles (who will not fill the comic relief roles; the OTL ones, especially Hugo, got on my nerves).

-The actors for Esmeralda and Quasimodo would be white and Romani, respectively, owing to a twist in the book.

-Frollo would not be straight away evil, nor would he be a judge or elderly. He would remain a noble (if innocently bigoted as a result of his piety) archdeacon at the start; if OTL's songs are kept, "Hellfire" would be his jumping-off point, so to speak. He'd also be in his mid-30s as in the book (albeit stress is starting to affect his age).

Overall, there's similarities to OTL's stage musical.
I kinda like the idea of doing a muppets version of The Hunchback, maybe with Sweetums as Quasimodo, Alan Rick as Frollo and maybe Catherine Zeta-Jones as Esmeralda. Beyond I have no idea how to incorporate the other muppets but this may inspire others.
I had an idea involving Hunchback, but the idea of a Muppets version is pretty awesome. I may consider that.

Considering we're in the era of smart slashers in the TL, I have if the next Texas Chainsaw film, if not another, could be like:
A kind of satire or social drama about the economic malaise, like how poverty and corporate greed could drive lower class people to crime to sustain themselves.

Also considering Peter Jackson and Tom Savini was considered to direct, maybe they could be in the chair?
I'll think that one over.

Even if you include all of the storyboard deaths, that still only makes a total of 24 named casualties, three of which were new characters introduced in this movie.

TF:TM absolutely was a bloodbath as a result of staggeringly bad decisions made at Hasbro, but IMO 47 is just way too high a number.
Thanks for the feedback, TR. To be perfectly honest, I haven't seen the film since the 1980s and had to look up the number online. 47 seemed high for me too, but in a rush to get that one out (it was not originally planned but added by reader request) I didn't bother to check my sources. I can retcon that number or we can assume the Atlantic writer is mistaken himself.

Here was my source; it does not cite its own sources: http://www.moviebodycounts.com/Transformers_the_Movie.htm
 
Maybe there's more to the story here, but didn't Gaiman create Sandman and The Endless based on existing DC IP, e.g. the old Sandman character from the Golden Age (i.e. Wesley Dobbs)?
Yes and no. Dream was based on a Gaiman's Sandman proposal but it was the Garrett Sanford version of Sandman:
Also, I was pretty sure that Alan Moore recruited him.
Alan Moore didn't specifically recruit Neil Gaiman but his run on Swamp Thing did inspire DC to recruit numerous British writers write comics in a similar vein, Gaiman among them. You could get around that by having someone at Marvel getting Moore first and have him work on Man-Thing.
If so, assuming he went to Marvel, how would the Endless be different?
He could change/retcon Nightmare to represent all types of dreams and not not just nightmares. The bigger issue is what to do with Death.
 
Alan Moore didn't specifically recruit Neil Gaiman but his run on Swamp Thing did inspire DC to recruit numerous British writers write comics in a similar vein, Gaiman among them. You could get around that by having someone at Marvel getting Moore first and have him work on Man-Thing.
As I recall, Alan Moore stopped working with Marvel over the rights to his Captain Britain stories (though not the character as CB was a creation of Chris Claremont and Herb Trimpe) so I find it extremely unlikely that he would work on Man-Thing. Additionally, I believe that the comics update established that Alan Moore's Swamp Thing still happened ITTL.

Frankly, it would be more plausible to have Burton go to Gaiman/Warner than the latter go to Marvel.

Yes and no. Dream was based on a Gaiman's Sandman proposal but it was the Garrett Sanford version of Sandman:
Plus Lyta Trevor (AKA Fury of Infinity Inc) was also a central character in the story as her and Hector Hall's son was Morpheus' successor as Dream.
 
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