A-H joins France in 1870- who wins?

So if for whatever reason at the beginning of the Franco Prussian War Austria Hungary joins France, with the other south German states still joining Prussia, what would the results be? Obviously it would cost more and take longer, but who wins? If Prussia wins, by how much? What are the effects of this war?
 
Depends on what Russia does - if they join Prussia it will be the same as OTL only Russia Gauning Parts of A-H (which might break into Austria and Hungary). If Austria Joins - what does Italy IIRC A-H would only join if Italy is - at least - comitting to neutrality (or even joining the French side - but what can Italy win if it does))


If Ruissia joins .- What does Britain....?
 
So if for whatever reason at the beginning of the Franco Prussian War Austria Hungary joins France, with the other south German states still joining Prussia, what would the results be? Obviously it would cost more and take longer, but who wins? If Prussia wins, by how much? What are the effects of this war?

Prussia still wins. She had troops stationed to cover her south-eastern flank if required, and these would have kept Austria at bay long enough for her to win the Battle of Sedan.

After that it depends on King Wilhelm's priorities. If he's furious enough he may give France an easier peace in order to concentrate on punishing the Austrian "stab in the back". In that case, France may get to keep Alsace-Lorraine, while Austria loses Silesia and Bohemia. If the Tsar intervenes, Austria could also lose Galicia and Bukovina. All in all Franz Josef was smart to resist the temptation.
 
Not obvious

The French were slow to react but improoved heavily their artillery during the war. A single major loss (and some were really close runs) means much more time for the French and many problems for the Prussians.

Prussia won mainly tnkans to consistently disastrous choices by French generals. A single mediocre to good one can turn the table. The longer the war, the higher the probability.
 
Not obvious

The French were slow to react but improoved heavily their artillery during the war. A single major loss (and some were really close runs) means much more time for the French and many problems for the Prussians.

Prussia won mainly tnkans to consistently disastrous choices by French generals. A single mediocre to good one can turn the table. The longer the war, the higher the probability.


But after Sedan (only six weeks into the war) there was no way France was going to win.

Some French successes might have helped her at the peace - maybe enough to save Alsace-Lorraine - but that's about the most she could hope for. Given Austria's usual sluggishness, there's no likelihood of her intervention changed the course of those crucial first weeks. Nor of course is it going to improve the quality of French generals. Moltke et al will still have them hugely outclassed.
 
Prussia and Russia had an agreement that should the Austrians intervene, Russian would join the war and knock out Austria. So I think Prussia and Russia would win. But the Russian army would notice some glaring problems with their army causing more reform.
 
But after Sedan (only six weeks into the war) there was no way France was going to win.

Some French successes might have helped her at the peace - maybe enough to save Alsace-Lorraine - but that's about the most she could hope for. Given Austria's usual sluggishness, there's no likelihood of her intervention changed the course of those crucial first weeks. Nor of course is it going to improve the quality of French generals. Moltke et al will still have them hugely outclassed.

I would say after Mars-la-Tour and Gravelotte (16-17 August). Once Bazaine fails to capitalize on a rare Prussian mistake, and gets the main French army bottled up in Metz, the war is lost.
France can get a better peace by avoiding the madness of Sedan and keeping an army-in-being in Chalons, protecting Paris, but all hopes for avictory are gone,
 
Prussia and Russia had an agreement that should the Austrians intervene, Russian would join the war and knock out Austria. So I think Prussia and Russia would win. But the Russian army would notice some glaring problems with their army causing more reform.

This war happening would probably tie Prussia/Germany closer to Russia. So instead of the AH-Germany alliance of OTL it would be Germany and Russia.

However this probably puts Britian squarely in team France to combat the Germany and Russians.
 
Oh, Bismarck might be able to get Greater Germany if A-H wants to join the war on the wrong side.

Bismarck would annex German speaking Austria (Although catholic population added to a culturally Protestant dominated Empire, might result into a even more heated up `Kulturkampf`?) Bismarck would in case of an annexion Anschluss pull a "Kleindeutsche Loesung " , the rest of the Austro-Hungarian Empire dissolves and is in the sphere of interest of Russia soon ? Maybe we would see a Russian Bosnian annexion-crisis instead of an 1878 OTL Austrian ?
 
Prussia and Russia had an agreement that should the Austrians intervene, Russian would join the war and knock out Austria. So I think Prussia and Russia would win. But the Russian army would notice some glaring problems with their army causing more reform.

Do you have any sources ? I find it interesting, that the prussians had such backup plans. Many users suggest, when it comes to Franco-Prussian and other post 1870 war scenarios, that Austria and Prussia/Germany traditionally have the closest relations und alliance.
 
Tsar Alexander threatened to mobilize if Austria-Hungary did so in the Franco-Prussian War. Russia had not forgotten Austria's betrayal during the Crimean War and Bismarck had put Prussia in a good position by supporting Russia in the 1863 Polish rebellion.
 
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