A Guide, Resource, and Repository of Could-have-been Ideologies for your Alternate History

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by PachPachis, Feb 20, 2017.

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  1. GeographyDude Well-Known Member

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    I think this was how Marx went about it around the 1840s when we had the shoe cobbler, the maker of shirt collars, and a bunch of other small producers.

    For today . . .

    In addition to income brackets, I’d prefer asking, are you confident you could get another equally good or better job? Do you feel secure with your access to health care? Etc.
     
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  2. Hassan-i-Sabbah Well-Known Member

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    My analysis comes from Proudhon actually.

    Well generally that's dependent on income isn't it? Other dimensions of class such as power or social action aren't included in this analysis.
     
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  3. Wash Royal New England Mounted Police Constable

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    Would anyone be interested in a write-up of the weirdness that is José Vasconcelos' "Aestheticism", or whatever it's called? I read The Cosmic Race for a class, and the ideology in it was quite unique (and had some influence on Mexican politics in the 1930's).
     
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  4. Born in the USSA Well-Known Member

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    A million times yes! I've always wanted to read that if anybody has an English link (wink wink).
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
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  5. Whiteshore Defender of Myrcella Baratheon

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    It is not a real-life ideology, unfortunately.
     
  6. Threadmarks: Integral Humanism - Hindustani Person

    Hindustani Person We live in a society :(

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    Integral Humanism
    [​IMG]

    The symbol of the Jan Sangh, the Hindu nationalist party that founded the ideology of Integral Humanism
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    The symbol of the Bharatiya Janata Party, India’s ruling party and the Jan Sangh’s successor

    Integral Humanism has little to do with either integralism or humanism.
    So what is it?-
    Integral Humanism was devised by Deendayal Upadhyaya, an Indian right-wing Hindu thinker and politician, as well as an alleged freedom fighter. The ideology was inspired by MS Golwalkar, the infamous Hindu fundamentalist ideologue and his belief in ‘organicism’. However, in order to make itself more appealing to moderates, Integral humanism worked in principles inspired by Gandhi. Its three main principles are progress, decentralisation, and Indian economic independence, as well as Hindu nationalism (Hindutva). It believes that the state must act as a corporate entity to which an individual must submit.
    Economically, it believes in an indigenous growth model and rejects both socialism and capitalism.
    Integral humanism also gives great emphasis to Hindu spirituality. It believes that the four goals of humanity are moral duty, wealth, desire, and salvation, with moral duty being the least important and salvation the most important. Integral humanists consider both socialism and capitalism to be materialistic.
    Integral humanism is much more confusing when discussing individualism. It rejects both individualism and collectivism, instead believing that society is a natural organism requiring both a national identity and the needs of the individual.
    It also believes in Advaita, the Hindu idea that the true self and the highest realities are equal and believes in ‘non-dualism’. It rejects all western influence, believing that it harms Indian culture, and instead believes that Indian (by which they mean Hindu) culture should be followed to the T, including aspects of the caste system. It believes that the moral duty of a person is based on their caste.
    As a force for good-Consumerism is actually pretty bad, mainly due to the fact that it creates humans whose only goal is to just buy things and is harmful for the environment plus creates more demand, which requires more supply, which generally is obtained through pretty sketchy, exploitative means, and if the anti-industrialism may actually help reduce it, it’s good in some ways
    As a force for bad-Thinking uncritically of tradition and instead emphasising on it, rejecting the needs of the individual, and believing in Hindu nationalism, as well as supporting the caste system and dharma are reasons I think it generally might ruffle quite a few feathers. Plus, anti-industrialisation may not be on the whole good, as industry creates progress and jobs and in my opinion, as long as it is ethically practiced, isn’t necessarily evil.
    (Apologies for my poor English)
     
  7. Utgard96 basically a load of twaddle about freedom

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    "Alleged freedom fighter" is a great combination of words.
     
  8. Hindustani Person We live in a society :(

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    Well, there is still a lot of debate as to whether Upadhyaya was actually a freedom fighter; many right-wing groups and politicians claim he is, while liberals and left-wingers claim he isn't.
    There's quite a few other controversies surrounding him, which you can read about here-https://thewire.in/history/deendayal-upadhyaya-guiding-force-hindu-rashtra
     
  9. Scorpio Retindar Monarcho-Socialist (somehow)

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    Your English is actually pretty good. You don't need to apologize atall.
     
  10. Hindustani Person We live in a society :(

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    pls thredmak mr pachpachis
     
  11. Threadmarks: Situationism (The Situationist International) - Crying

    Crying Your ideology is shit, SHIIIIIIIIT

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    Situationism (The Situationist International)
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    Détournement is the Situationist technique meant to take an ‘expression of the capitalist system’ and turn it against itself


    What it is
    The Situationist International, or SI, was an international (though primarily European, specifically French & Belgian) art and political movement. Originally based around the theory of ‘unitary urbanism’ which came from its pseudo-predecessor of the “Letterist International”, it would come to be defined by the theory of ‘the Spectacle’ following Guy Debord’s – one of its founding members – publishing of his The Society of the Spectacle book. The movement itself arguably didn’t accomplish very much politically or artistically, but it and its theories have been highly influential; it’s something of a predecessor to Postmodernism, many protest movements have drawn inspiration from it in some fashion, and many artists – especially punk musicians, with the Sex Pistols in particular being heavily influenced – have been inspired by it.

    Situationism is a libertarian socialist – potentially even anarcho-communist, though they did not identify as anarchists and believed that the term ‘anarchist’ had been co-opted by capitalism and thus needed to be opposed – tendency, meaning they oppose both capitalism and the state communism of the USSR, early PRC, etc... in favour of decentralized worker’s councils controlling the economy via direct democracy. Despite being avant-garde artists, they disavowed the Leninist vanguard party model of communist revolution, believing instead in a spontaneous worker-led revolution once class consciousness has sufficiently emerged.

    Situationism was descended form and influenced by radical avant-garde art movements like Surrealism, Dadaism, etc... and a lot of actions taken by the SI were radical, subversive pieces of art meant to invite viewers into a new mode of experiencing the world around them – in other words, the exact kind of weird modern art and French cinema that right-wingers love to complain about, but this time with an extra dosage of implicit and/or explicit anti-capitalism messaging. They played a small, but prominent role in the May ’68 revolution where they took over the Sorbonne and sent out a series of telegrams denouncing both capitalism and Soviet communism and supporting the worker council’s of Czechoslovakia, Hungary in ’56, and the various left-wing opposers of the CPC, as well as serving as inspiration for many of the protestor’s most popular slogans.

    “HUMANITY WON’T BE HAPPY TILL THE LAST BUREAUCRAT IS HUNG WITH THE GUTS OF THE LAST CAPITALIST.” – excerpt from telegrams that the Situationists sent out during May ‘68
    “We don’t want a world where the guarantee of not dying of starvation brings the risk of dying of boredom.” – May ’68 graffiti in Paris

    Their early focus on ‘unitary urbanism’ – which never really went away, but was displaced as the primary theoretical focus – was about trying to unify art and everyday life with a focus on how the design/construction of cities and other urban environments shapes the way one experiences it, and is perhaps most radically exemplified by Constant Nieuwenhuys’ – one of their other founding members – New Babylon; a utopian, post-revolutionary megastructure of a city that would allow humanity to emerge as ‘homo ludens’. It would be held up off the ground, cover most of the planet – if not all of it – and be architecturally designed to allow people to experience unique ‘situations’ that would allow people to experience life as near-constant play rather than work in a post-scarcity, anarcho-communist future. Ironically, towards the end of his life Constant began thinking that the world free of necessity that he’d imagined would, from a modern perspective, not only be incredibly strange but also not necessarily desirable, and his art depicting it would begin to take on a much darker tone.

    The SI’s focus on a Lefebvrean ‘everyday life’ led them to focus on the micro-scale effects of capitalism on social life rather than on the macro-scale effects of capitalism on society that many other communist theorists focus on. This ultimately led to the creation of Guy Debord’s theory of ‘the Spectacle’, which could be considered an updating of Marx’s theory of ideology, alienation, reification and commodity fetishism to accommodate for modern (at the time) technology like mass media, and for the rise of consumerism – some have called his work a kind of mashup between Marx and Marshall McLuhan. To try to summarise: the Spectacle is Debord’s term for how more and more aspects of social existence come to be mediated by capitalist market values in a modern society; in the society of the spectacle people no longer relate to themselves, others or the world around them directly, they instead relate to everything through commodities – which alienates and isolates us from reality – that are ultimately unable to satisfy our authentic human desires and leave us a) unable to really imagine a world without these mediated relationships, and b) forced to consume more and more commodities in order to try and fulfil our desires/needs.

    Basically, in advanced capitalism everything in society becomes commodified – a spectacle that leaves you unable to remember/realize that a different kind of society exists – through turning everything into an act of consumption or an act that encourages/teaches you to consume. Because of this, a lot of the SI’s actions were meant to be shocking, authentic, uncommodified experiences that would snap someone out of the spectacle and make them aware of its existence by showing them something else existed, or to turn by the spectacle against itself by subversively turning its capitalist messaging into anti-capitalist messaging or revealing its hidden capitalist messaging in a shocking way.

    [​IMG]

    As individualist good guys
    The Situationist society comes down a bit more on the libertarian side of libertarian socialism, and the result is a more decentralized union of worker’s councils without a federal council strong enough to muster funds and support for some of the SI’s more radical ideas like New Babylon. Urban environments are still redesigned to encourage a more human-centric, ‘playful’ experience car-centred, business-driven designs of pre-revolutionary cities, but this is as far as the urban redesign project really goes – the artistic style of each urban environment varies based upon the tastes of its residents, with some worker’s councils even deciding to retain their old “capitalist aesthetics” to some degree. The social sphere is constructed so as to allow people to live as ‘homo ludens’, but there are no social engineering programs that encourage it.

    As collectivist good guys
    The Situationist society comes down a bit more on the socialism side of libertarian socialism, and the result is a slightly more centralized union of worker’s councils with a federal council strong enough to muster funds and support for some of the SI’s more radical ideas. New Babylon doesn’t end up as an ecumenopolis being held up above the earth, but the Situationist country does take on a revolutionary new model of city-building where everything is modular and periodically redesigned and updated, each segment meant to bring new unique experiences compared to the last – like some kind of bizarre amusement park – which has the byproduct of making the separation between urban and rural quite sharp, as well as making suburban sprawl very rare. Social engineering programs to encourage the development of the society’s population into ‘homo ludens’ are a matter of federal policy, though the actual execution happens on a more local level.

    As neutrals
    The revolution was a bloody one, fought against both capitalist western powers and state communist eastern powers, and the new de-centrally planned economy isn’t as ideal as the Situationist wanted it to be, but Situationist society isn’t necessarily a bad place to live. Despite being communist, the culture of the Situationist society tends to be (viewed as) somewhat elitist and snobby in the same that OTL Parisian culture tends to be. Instead of advertisements and signs covering almost every available surface, you’ve got avant-garde art scattered throughout the urban landscape, and many pre-revolutionary statues and monuments have been replaced with radical sculptures. Cities often undergo small-scale architectural redesigns or renewals, and a lot of money gets spent making sure that public systems are always up-to-date if not cutting-edge – given that the Situationist society isn’t (yet) a post-scarcity one, this does sometimes tend to pose something of a problem as it eats up funds that could otherwise be used on issues that IRL capitalist societies would view as more important. Rural areas are comparatively neglected by the federal government, leaving only local worker’s councils to really focus on them – but this isn’t that different from the IRL relationship between states and rural areas.

    As villains
    Unitary Urbanism, as “the complex, ongoing activity which consciously recreates man’s environment according to the most advanced conceptions in every domain” ends up turning into the kind of dystopian scenario that right-wing critic of (post-)modern art fear. Very little pre-revolutionary culture remains, almost everything having been destroyed and replaced with new, ‘technologically advanced’ artistic culture which encourages people to live lazy, hedonistic and ultimately meaningless lifestyles. Shadowy, spindly sculptures – the half-finished attempts build New Babylon – always seem to loom in the distance no matter where you stand, and if you were to investigate you would find the ground underneath covered with the dried blood of those who perished trying to build these monuments to decadence and sin.

    [​IMG]

    As always, tell me if I made a typo somewhere.
     
  12. Spiritual Sausage Well-Known Member

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    that fucking mc ride and mcqueen pic
     
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  13. LostInNewDelhi Anarcho-Shaivist

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    Oct 30, 2014
    I was ready for a handful of laughs at some eccentric leftie philosophy profs and student activists, I wasn't ready for something so seemingly appropriate to the 21st century. But why is the Situationist response to society forcing people to work for and spend on every avenue to happiness... the creation of a whole new type of city? Especially a theme-park city, I normally think of of theme parks as places where I am (over)spending on everything I could possibly do there.

    Why does it have to lead to a big megaproject with all kinds of implications people never bargained for, why can't it just be organizing an open mic or some other kind of non commodified entertainment (for example) so people arent buying into movies, and so on? Essentially, Situationist subspaces within the larger society? Or is the fear that those too will eventually be discovered and commodified?
     
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  14. damein fisher This bad boy can fit so many maps in it

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    Any chance we could get a chapter on Bellamyism, or "Nationalism"
     
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  15. Crying Your ideology is shit, SHIIIIIIIIT

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    If the Situationist International was around today, memes would definitely be something they'd use to 'advertise' their philosophy. It seemed appropriate

    I'm not Constant Nieuwenhuys, so I can't really say what he was thinking or why he thought about the things he did. But its worth keeping in mind that New Babylon was the most radical idea he had, and it was one unique to him - it wasn't something the SI as a whole thought of and advocated for - as well as something that he, himself, had doubts about towards the end of his life. That description of half-built New Babylons in the villains entry is literally just me describing his own depictions of them towards the end of his life (he started naming the art pieces with them after massacres). I'm not really sure why they focused so much on urban design, it's just something they believed in a lot I guess.

    Keep in mind that New Babylon was supposed to be a kind of post-revolutionary utopia, not something they'd create to give people authentic experiences before the revolution. The stuff that the Situationist International actually did was way more low-key than creating floating cities; they'd make films by editing together clips from other films, they'd spraypaint over ads so that they told people not to buy that product, they'd organize little flash-mob 'pranks' - they engaged in culture jamming before culture jamming was a thing, really. I focused on New Babylon way more than the Situationists themselves did because it's distinctive for the entry to focus on.
     
  16. WhiteDragon25 Well-Known Member

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    Jul 8, 2018
    Can somebody do a write-up on the Romanian Iron Guard? Aside from their memetic-meathook brutality, what exactly were they going the fuck on about?

    Also, when's Esoteric Hitlerism Part 3 coming out!? You gotta complete the trilogy of insanity here!
     
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  17. Neoteros Dux Mediolani

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    I wonder, should I give Galambosianism a try? :p
     
  18. Crying Your ideology is shit, SHIIIIIIIIT

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    That would count as an ideology which was 'tried', meaning it doesn't really belong in this thread.

    Given that I had't heard about it before - of, if I had, I'd forgotten about it - I'm going to say yes.
     
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  19. PachPachis Danish Literature

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    Threadmarked both new entries. Sorry for the wait.
     
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  20. CountPeter Apparently the anti-christ.

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    Oct 20, 2014
    I like to call it fight club capitalism, because a Galambosian can’t talk about Galambosianism without violating Galambosian ethics.
     
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