A Greater Britain, Mk2
- Thread starter EdT
- Start date
Public works are important to the Mosley Government's job creation scheme, and big concrete things will be popping up across the landscape. There is a project that in TTL's version of Civilisation will definitely be a 'wonder of the world'- it's absolutely massive and will feature at some point in the future, although because of the length of the construction time I haven't found a neat place to talk about it yet...
Is it a gigantic statue of Mosley himself?
Mosley isn't quite that egotistical.... yet.
Actually, an early Channel Tunnel would probably be more of an engineering challenge, but what I have in mind not only soaks up a lot of unskilled labour but ticks quite a few of Mosley's ideological boxes. As a public works project it rather puts the likes of the Hoover Dam to shame...
Made the Qattara Depresion a lake?
Fun though that is, sadly not!
Think people may be a little disappointed when it pops up now... Only hint I'll give is that it's a useful bit of infrastructure on a massive scale that's technically feasable for the time, although expensive.
Originally posted by EdT
Fun though that is, sadly not!
Think people may be a little disappointed when it pops up now... Only hint I'll give is that it's a useful bit of infrastructure on a massive scale that's technically feasable for the time, although expensive.
Hmm.. and also mentions in a post before about Hoover dam, so, something related to hidroelectrical industry.
... Naturally the other thing that I was thinking is a massive raid to hunt definitively Nessie
(you know drain all the lake, after capture the criature, after putting all the water another time -including the fish and the boats and ships- in the lake Ness, truly the definitive system, although expensive and in a massive scale)Oooh... interesting. Is it, as Iñaki suggested, a big hydroelectric project? Hmm, big infrastructure, technically feasible - (a wild guess) not a massive nuke plant, surely? Probably not. If it's not that or a big dam somewhere,Idunno what it might be. A huge tower in the middle of London, somewhat similar to the four towers in 1984?
I'll stop now.
Early Channel Tunnel? Dammit, you stole my idea (even if it is a few decades later, and more feasible).
Ooh, I like the last one! I'm not going to give any more clues I think- it'll become clear soon enough...
A Channel Tunnel would be feasible, but for the same security reasons as OTL the Government aren't that keen on the idea. Mosley favours schemes that make Britain more self-sufficient, not ones that (as he would see it) tethers us to Europe.
Chapter 8
“The circumstances of our national security have now self-evidently changed”
_____________________________________________
(Taken from “The road to war” by John Coombs, Picador 1979)
“…After the decision to invade Abyssinia the following autumn had been taken, Mussolini was quick to secure support for the project from Britain and France, the other two major Powers interested in the region. In the January of 1935 Mussolini met the French Prime Minister Pierre Laval in Rome, and Africa was one of the primary areas of debate. The discussions were marked by the extremely cordial relations between the two leaders, and on January 5th Laval addressed Mussolini at a ceremony where the Italian dictator was presented the Legion of Honour; “You have written the fairest page in modern Italian history; you will bring assistance indispensable to maintaining peace”. After several days of negotiation a wide-ranging series of Franco-Italian agreements were signed on the 8th, and while it is still unknown whether Laval explicitly indicated acquiescence to an invasion of Abyssinia, the French threat to Italy’s ambitions in the Horn of Africa had nonetheless been effectively removed[48]…
…Mussolini’s next challenge was Britain, which proved to be just as willing to come to an accord with Il Duce as the French had been. The Mosley Government had always been sympathetic to the Italian point of view, and the Prime Minister himself had seen Abyssinia as a centre of barbarism ever since he had read Kathleen Simon’s landmark work ‘Slavery’ half a decade before[49]… The conference at Como in April did much to resolve the residual differences between the two nations, and with the collapse of Anglo-German negotiations two months later[50] any risk to Anglo-Italian relations had been quashed for the time being…”
(Taken from “The Mosley Era” by Tobias Griffin, Picador 1987)
“The increasingly acrimonious exchanges in Parliament about the King’s marriage had one positive effect for the Government; the furore distracted the media and the public from the potentially embarrassing events that were taking place in the Horn of Africa. On October 3rd Mussolini finally ordered the invasion of Abyssinia, and 100,000 Italian troops supported by colonial militias poured into the African Kingdom from north and south. The outbreak of war attracted little attention in Britain, and it was only in early November with the final passage of the Marriage Act through the Dominion Parliaments that the conflict properly reached the public gaze[51]…
…This month-long window of public indifference to the issue gave Mosley and Attlee[52] a perfect chance to continue their pro-Italian policy without needing to pay any attention to national opinion, an advantage that the Government’s French counterparts would envy greatly… In the first days after the invasion, British representatives in Geneva were ordered to do everything they could to frustrate anti-Italian moves in the League of Nations, vetoing the League’s condemnation of Italy as the aggressor on October 7th and even putting forward proposals to legalise the invasion entirely under the anti-slavery protocols of Abyssinia’s accession agreement[53]. While this move was narrowly rejected it left the League’s policy towards the conflict in utter disarray…
…By the time the war in Abyssinia reached the public consciousness, British policy on the issue had effectively created a fait accompli. The Government presented the invasion as a humanitarian intervention by Italy to prevent the slave trade and other barbarous practices and was to a certain extent successful, but nonetheless there was plenty of opposition to the conflict from a disparate range of groups…. In Parliament the Liberals were the first to come out against the Government’s position, quickly followed by some dissident members of the ILP. In mid November Eden’s Conservatives followed, sensing that they had finally found a popular stance to take against a Government that increasingly looked like a shoe-in in the next Parliament[54]… in the event however Labour’s early assumption of the moral high ground prevented a coherent opposition to Government policy, and the Abyssinia issue remained, as Churchill put it; ‘an issue in search of a crisis’…”
(Taken from “My Life” by Oswald Mosley, Longman 1961)
“…The League of Nations, which in my youth I had so ardently supported as a new instrument of world peace, had begun to fail for reasons of personal weakness in statesmanship already noted, and by this time had been turned into an instrument of the balance of power which from historic experience I regarded as an inevitable prelude to war. The balance of power had always brought war, and now it threatened to return with the League on one side and a motley collection of rejectionist nations on the other; a perversion of every high aspiration of the war generation…
…I analysed the circumstances in which Europe had arrived at this situation and how the original idea of the League was in danger of being destroyed. America had defected, six other nations —Japan, Turkey, Poland, Lithuania, Bolivia and Paraguay— had been allowed to defy the League with impunity and the departure of Germany had been made inevitable by the chronic lack of will of the League’s leaders. The process was in danger of being completed by driving Italy out of the League and into the other camp by the application of sanctions. I quoted Sir Edward Grigg, Governor of Kenya Colony, to the effect that Abyssinia had for years past raided not only Italian but British territory for slaves, and had committed definite acts of war without one finger being lifted by Geneva or the British Government. Yet when Italy took 'precisely the same measures to suppress these evils as had been taken at every stage of the honourable building of the British Empire', action had been taken against her, although six nations had already with complete impunity violated the covenant of the League...[55]
…The indictment of the old party policy did not stop there. Some of Eden’s Conservatives, swallowing a generation of principle in their determination to destroy the peace, had even called for the government to seek the assistance of the Soviets against Italy. From this needless gambit would have arisen the subservience of British to Soviet policy in the East, for Britain could not use the Soviets in Europe without in turn being used by the Soviets in the Orient... If Russia was to join with Britain in the iron ring round Germany and Italy, then Britain must have joined with Russia in their iron ring round Japan, not only in contravention of her own interests but in jeopardy of world peace.”
(Taken from a speech by Oswald Mosley in the House of Commons, November 14th 1935)
“The world, in fact, is divided into two camps of the possessors and the dispossessed ... in one camp are Britain and France; in the other camp by inevitable gravitation of common circumstances is Germany; and to that camp by analogous folly is being added Japan and potentially even Italy. With the return of the balance of power we witness the return of the arms race and the concomitant Press agitation which inflames the mind and spirit of Europe to fresh fatality…
…Regardless of the moral reasons for her intervention, by the occupation of Abyssinia Italy now has not only an outlet for her population but profitable access to raw materials, and she should be left in undisturbed possession of this new acquisition... A glance at a child's map of the world shows that a hostile Italy could be a much greater menace to British trade routes from the base of Sicily than from any base in Abyssinia. As to the threat to the Sudan, why should Italy abandon the development of the territories she already possesses in order to indulge in a savage fight with the greatest naval power in the world for extra territories which provide not greater but lesser sustenance? Even his worst enemy does not describe Il Duce as a fool…
Furthermore, Italy is not used to administering large colonial territories and will have enough to do in the development of Abyssinia for some generations. Rather, Italy's every interest is to join with the British Empire to maintain the stability and peace of the Eastern Mediterranean and of North Africa...”
(Taken from “The road to war” by John Coombs, Picador 1979)
“…To Mussolini’s intense embarrassment, by the beginning of December the Italian advance in Abyssinia had begun to grind to a halt, slowed by the cautiousness of Marshal De Bono, logistical hitches, and ominously the use of smuggled German weapons by the defending Abyssinians . The easy campaign that looked all but assured a few months before now had the potential to be a draining struggle, even if there was little prospect of Italy suffering a repeat of the humiliation she suffered at Adowa forty years before. With this in mind Mussolini sent quiet feelers to both Paris and London indicating his willingness to come to a compromise peace…
…Mussolini’s action came as a huge relief to the Laval Government in France, which had been suffering a barrage of criticism on its reluctance to take a stand on the issue. In early December the French entered into consultations with the Mosley government in Britain, and on the 8th Laval and the British Foreign Secretary Clement Attlee both flew to Rome to put a compromise peace to Mussolini… Under the terms of the proposal, Abyssinia would be dismembered. Italy would gain the best parts of Ogaden and Tigrè, and economic influence over all the southern part of Abyssinia. In compensation, Abyssinia itself would have had a guaranteed corridor to the sea, acquiring the port of Assab. The rump of Abyssinia would become a semi-autonomous region under the trusteeship of the League, although in reality this was intended to formalise British and French influence over the remains of the region[57]…
…Thanks to British and French intervention, on the 21st December 1935 the brief conflict in Abyssinia came to an end through a cease-fire. The following day the League retroactively legitimised the invasion by accepting the responsibilities offered to it in the region, and realising that the deal was their only chance of independence the Emperor signed the treaty on Christmas day…”
(Taken from “The Mosley Era” by Tobias Griffin, Picador 1987)
“…The Government’s secret diplomacy on the Abyssinia issue took the war’s critics by surprise, and when Mussolini announced that he was submitting to Anglo-French mediation on December 9th Mosley pulled off a public-relations coup. Mosley’s insistence on the League’s involvement satisfied the internationalist wings of both the Labour and Conservative parties, and while the reduction of Abyssinia to a rump appalled some on the anti-colonialist left, the Government was able to claim that it was the best possible deal that could be made to save the nation from completer destruction. As 1935 drew to a close with the wedding of Edward VIII and his consort Thelma, the Mosley Government looked forward to the forthcoming election year with increasing confidence…”
_____________________________________________
[48]This all actually happened- The French government was pretty pro-Italian in 1935 OTL even without the influence of a pro-Italian government in Britain.
[49]Kathleen Simon was an anti-slavery campaigner and wife of Liberal politician John Simon, who became Foreign Secretary in the National Government OTL. OTL I’m pretty sure Mosley read the work- I see no reason for things to be different ITTL.
[50]OTL these negotiations would have resulted in the Anglo-German Naval agreement of 1935. ITTL they failed because thanks to Mussolini’s influence on Mosley the British government is less inclined to trust Hitler. There is also a much greater awareness on the part of Britain that Italy can be kept onside.
[51]This is quite a change from OTL, where Abyssinia was headline news from the very beginning. The lack of initial outrage for Italy’s actions will make it difficult for the conflict to become a major political issue in Britain, especially as the government is frantically spinning the conflict in a positive way.
[52]In fact, the pro-Italian stance of the Government is far more Mosley then Attlee, but the latter is very much a Foreign Secretary who does exactly as he’s told and has little input into policy making.
[53]In 1923 Abyssinia was allowed to join the League, provided that it followed a host of directives related to the abolition of the Kingdom’s flourishing slave trade. One of these was a recognition of the League’s right to intervene to suppress the trade, which is what the British Government is raising ITTL.
[54]ITTL the Tories of the period have something of a thing for bandwagons… luckily for Eden the baseball cap- and for that matter the log flume- have yet to achieve widespread popularity in 1930’s Britain
[55]Mosley’s attitude to the League is not what you might expect- he’s actually very much in favour of the idea, but feels that the League must be reformed hugely if it’s to succeed.
[56]This is an exaggeration on the part of the author of course. OTL Hitler sent supplies and guns to the Abyssinians, and this happens here as well. Later events make this aid more prominent in retrospect then OTL, and the image of German military aid going to the Abyssinians is a convenient factor to claim as a reason for the slowing of the Italian advance (which happened OTL as well) in December 1935.
[57]This is pretty much OTL’s Hoare-Laval pact, with a few differences, mostly the submission of rump Abyssinia to the League. This is a proposal championed by Mosley, who wanted the region under complete European control in some form or another in order to wipe out the slave trade. Butterflies and the slightly less controversial circumstances of the deal mean that it isn’t leaked as it was OTL, and the constant spin by the British government has influenced public opinion quite successfully.
Below: A map of post-war Abyssinia
“The circumstances of our national security have now self-evidently changed”
_____________________________________________
(Taken from “The road to war” by John Coombs, Picador 1979)
“…After the decision to invade Abyssinia the following autumn had been taken, Mussolini was quick to secure support for the project from Britain and France, the other two major Powers interested in the region. In the January of 1935 Mussolini met the French Prime Minister Pierre Laval in Rome, and Africa was one of the primary areas of debate. The discussions were marked by the extremely cordial relations between the two leaders, and on January 5th Laval addressed Mussolini at a ceremony where the Italian dictator was presented the Legion of Honour; “You have written the fairest page in modern Italian history; you will bring assistance indispensable to maintaining peace”. After several days of negotiation a wide-ranging series of Franco-Italian agreements were signed on the 8th, and while it is still unknown whether Laval explicitly indicated acquiescence to an invasion of Abyssinia, the French threat to Italy’s ambitions in the Horn of Africa had nonetheless been effectively removed[48]…
…Mussolini’s next challenge was Britain, which proved to be just as willing to come to an accord with Il Duce as the French had been. The Mosley Government had always been sympathetic to the Italian point of view, and the Prime Minister himself had seen Abyssinia as a centre of barbarism ever since he had read Kathleen Simon’s landmark work ‘Slavery’ half a decade before[49]… The conference at Como in April did much to resolve the residual differences between the two nations, and with the collapse of Anglo-German negotiations two months later[50] any risk to Anglo-Italian relations had been quashed for the time being…”
(Taken from “The Mosley Era” by Tobias Griffin, Picador 1987)
“The increasingly acrimonious exchanges in Parliament about the King’s marriage had one positive effect for the Government; the furore distracted the media and the public from the potentially embarrassing events that were taking place in the Horn of Africa. On October 3rd Mussolini finally ordered the invasion of Abyssinia, and 100,000 Italian troops supported by colonial militias poured into the African Kingdom from north and south. The outbreak of war attracted little attention in Britain, and it was only in early November with the final passage of the Marriage Act through the Dominion Parliaments that the conflict properly reached the public gaze[51]…
…This month-long window of public indifference to the issue gave Mosley and Attlee[52] a perfect chance to continue their pro-Italian policy without needing to pay any attention to national opinion, an advantage that the Government’s French counterparts would envy greatly… In the first days after the invasion, British representatives in Geneva were ordered to do everything they could to frustrate anti-Italian moves in the League of Nations, vetoing the League’s condemnation of Italy as the aggressor on October 7th and even putting forward proposals to legalise the invasion entirely under the anti-slavery protocols of Abyssinia’s accession agreement[53]. While this move was narrowly rejected it left the League’s policy towards the conflict in utter disarray…
…By the time the war in Abyssinia reached the public consciousness, British policy on the issue had effectively created a fait accompli. The Government presented the invasion as a humanitarian intervention by Italy to prevent the slave trade and other barbarous practices and was to a certain extent successful, but nonetheless there was plenty of opposition to the conflict from a disparate range of groups…. In Parliament the Liberals were the first to come out against the Government’s position, quickly followed by some dissident members of the ILP. In mid November Eden’s Conservatives followed, sensing that they had finally found a popular stance to take against a Government that increasingly looked like a shoe-in in the next Parliament[54]… in the event however Labour’s early assumption of the moral high ground prevented a coherent opposition to Government policy, and the Abyssinia issue remained, as Churchill put it; ‘an issue in search of a crisis’…”
(Taken from “My Life” by Oswald Mosley, Longman 1961)
“…The League of Nations, which in my youth I had so ardently supported as a new instrument of world peace, had begun to fail for reasons of personal weakness in statesmanship already noted, and by this time had been turned into an instrument of the balance of power which from historic experience I regarded as an inevitable prelude to war. The balance of power had always brought war, and now it threatened to return with the League on one side and a motley collection of rejectionist nations on the other; a perversion of every high aspiration of the war generation…
…I analysed the circumstances in which Europe had arrived at this situation and how the original idea of the League was in danger of being destroyed. America had defected, six other nations —Japan, Turkey, Poland, Lithuania, Bolivia and Paraguay— had been allowed to defy the League with impunity and the departure of Germany had been made inevitable by the chronic lack of will of the League’s leaders. The process was in danger of being completed by driving Italy out of the League and into the other camp by the application of sanctions. I quoted Sir Edward Grigg, Governor of Kenya Colony, to the effect that Abyssinia had for years past raided not only Italian but British territory for slaves, and had committed definite acts of war without one finger being lifted by Geneva or the British Government. Yet when Italy took 'precisely the same measures to suppress these evils as had been taken at every stage of the honourable building of the British Empire', action had been taken against her, although six nations had already with complete impunity violated the covenant of the League...[55]
…The indictment of the old party policy did not stop there. Some of Eden’s Conservatives, swallowing a generation of principle in their determination to destroy the peace, had even called for the government to seek the assistance of the Soviets against Italy. From this needless gambit would have arisen the subservience of British to Soviet policy in the East, for Britain could not use the Soviets in Europe without in turn being used by the Soviets in the Orient... If Russia was to join with Britain in the iron ring round Germany and Italy, then Britain must have joined with Russia in their iron ring round Japan, not only in contravention of her own interests but in jeopardy of world peace.”
(Taken from a speech by Oswald Mosley in the House of Commons, November 14th 1935)
“The world, in fact, is divided into two camps of the possessors and the dispossessed ... in one camp are Britain and France; in the other camp by inevitable gravitation of common circumstances is Germany; and to that camp by analogous folly is being added Japan and potentially even Italy. With the return of the balance of power we witness the return of the arms race and the concomitant Press agitation which inflames the mind and spirit of Europe to fresh fatality…
…Regardless of the moral reasons for her intervention, by the occupation of Abyssinia Italy now has not only an outlet for her population but profitable access to raw materials, and she should be left in undisturbed possession of this new acquisition... A glance at a child's map of the world shows that a hostile Italy could be a much greater menace to British trade routes from the base of Sicily than from any base in Abyssinia. As to the threat to the Sudan, why should Italy abandon the development of the territories she already possesses in order to indulge in a savage fight with the greatest naval power in the world for extra territories which provide not greater but lesser sustenance? Even his worst enemy does not describe Il Duce as a fool…
Furthermore, Italy is not used to administering large colonial territories and will have enough to do in the development of Abyssinia for some generations. Rather, Italy's every interest is to join with the British Empire to maintain the stability and peace of the Eastern Mediterranean and of North Africa...”
(Taken from “The road to war” by John Coombs, Picador 1979)
“…To Mussolini’s intense embarrassment, by the beginning of December the Italian advance in Abyssinia had begun to grind to a halt, slowed by the cautiousness of Marshal De Bono, logistical hitches, and ominously the use of smuggled German weapons by the defending Abyssinians . The easy campaign that looked all but assured a few months before now had the potential to be a draining struggle, even if there was little prospect of Italy suffering a repeat of the humiliation she suffered at Adowa forty years before. With this in mind Mussolini sent quiet feelers to both Paris and London indicating his willingness to come to a compromise peace…
…Mussolini’s action came as a huge relief to the Laval Government in France, which had been suffering a barrage of criticism on its reluctance to take a stand on the issue. In early December the French entered into consultations with the Mosley government in Britain, and on the 8th Laval and the British Foreign Secretary Clement Attlee both flew to Rome to put a compromise peace to Mussolini… Under the terms of the proposal, Abyssinia would be dismembered. Italy would gain the best parts of Ogaden and Tigrè, and economic influence over all the southern part of Abyssinia. In compensation, Abyssinia itself would have had a guaranteed corridor to the sea, acquiring the port of Assab. The rump of Abyssinia would become a semi-autonomous region under the trusteeship of the League, although in reality this was intended to formalise British and French influence over the remains of the region[57]…
…Thanks to British and French intervention, on the 21st December 1935 the brief conflict in Abyssinia came to an end through a cease-fire. The following day the League retroactively legitimised the invasion by accepting the responsibilities offered to it in the region, and realising that the deal was their only chance of independence the Emperor signed the treaty on Christmas day…”
(Taken from “The Mosley Era” by Tobias Griffin, Picador 1987)
“…The Government’s secret diplomacy on the Abyssinia issue took the war’s critics by surprise, and when Mussolini announced that he was submitting to Anglo-French mediation on December 9th Mosley pulled off a public-relations coup. Mosley’s insistence on the League’s involvement satisfied the internationalist wings of both the Labour and Conservative parties, and while the reduction of Abyssinia to a rump appalled some on the anti-colonialist left, the Government was able to claim that it was the best possible deal that could be made to save the nation from completer destruction. As 1935 drew to a close with the wedding of Edward VIII and his consort Thelma, the Mosley Government looked forward to the forthcoming election year with increasing confidence…”
_____________________________________________
[48]This all actually happened- The French government was pretty pro-Italian in 1935 OTL even without the influence of a pro-Italian government in Britain.
[49]Kathleen Simon was an anti-slavery campaigner and wife of Liberal politician John Simon, who became Foreign Secretary in the National Government OTL. OTL I’m pretty sure Mosley read the work- I see no reason for things to be different ITTL.
[50]OTL these negotiations would have resulted in the Anglo-German Naval agreement of 1935. ITTL they failed because thanks to Mussolini’s influence on Mosley the British government is less inclined to trust Hitler. There is also a much greater awareness on the part of Britain that Italy can be kept onside.
[51]This is quite a change from OTL, where Abyssinia was headline news from the very beginning. The lack of initial outrage for Italy’s actions will make it difficult for the conflict to become a major political issue in Britain, especially as the government is frantically spinning the conflict in a positive way.
[52]In fact, the pro-Italian stance of the Government is far more Mosley then Attlee, but the latter is very much a Foreign Secretary who does exactly as he’s told and has little input into policy making.
[53]In 1923 Abyssinia was allowed to join the League, provided that it followed a host of directives related to the abolition of the Kingdom’s flourishing slave trade. One of these was a recognition of the League’s right to intervene to suppress the trade, which is what the British Government is raising ITTL.
[54]ITTL the Tories of the period have something of a thing for bandwagons… luckily for Eden the baseball cap- and for that matter the log flume- have yet to achieve widespread popularity in 1930’s Britain
[55]Mosley’s attitude to the League is not what you might expect- he’s actually very much in favour of the idea, but feels that the League must be reformed hugely if it’s to succeed.
[56]This is an exaggeration on the part of the author of course. OTL Hitler sent supplies and guns to the Abyssinians, and this happens here as well. Later events make this aid more prominent in retrospect then OTL, and the image of German military aid going to the Abyssinians is a convenient factor to claim as a reason for the slowing of the Italian advance (which happened OTL as well) in December 1935.
[57]This is pretty much OTL’s Hoare-Laval pact, with a few differences, mostly the submission of rump Abyssinia to the League. This is a proposal championed by Mosley, who wanted the region under complete European control in some form or another in order to wipe out the slave trade. Butterflies and the slightly less controversial circumstances of the deal mean that it isn’t leaked as it was OTL, and the constant spin by the British government has influenced public opinion quite successfully.
Below: A map of post-war Abyssinia
In retrospective this was have come off as a significant political victory for Mosely, increasing his credibility with the more fractious inhabitants of his Big Tent.
His critics will have spent their ammunition and political capital against him for no return, with it looking like the successful conclusion of pragmatic foreign policy had brought the Italians to a negotiated solution.
Thinking about the long term, the British Labour party would have little sympathy with the authoritarian regimes of Eastern Europe, and Mosely, with no personal stake in the matter, would probably not over-ride this.
On the other hand, there is likely to be greater support for Czechoslovakia inspired from within Labour. Given Italian interests in guaranteeing Austrian independence, and it remaining within the League, we could well see some form of understanding develop there.
His critics will have spent their ammunition and political capital against him for no return, with it looking like the successful conclusion of pragmatic foreign policy had brought the Italians to a negotiated solution.
Thinking about the long term, the British Labour party would have little sympathy with the authoritarian regimes of Eastern Europe, and Mosely, with no personal stake in the matter, would probably not over-ride this.
On the other hand, there is likely to be greater support for Czechoslovakia inspired from within Labour. Given Italian interests in guaranteeing Austrian independence, and it remaining within the League, we could well see some form of understanding develop there.
Thande
Donor
Very good, EdT. I find Mosley's stance on the League quite interesting.
I suppose it might just be Mosley's language, but this seems to imply to my mind that America left the League of Nations, when we know it just never joined in the first place.
You've mentioned Churchill a few times - what's he up to? Given Mosleyite Britain's increased hostility to Germany over OTL, I can't imagine him being as politically isolated as OTL. Is he part of the Conservative shadow cabinet?
Mosley said:
I suppose it might just be Mosley's language, but this seems to imply to my mind that America left the League of Nations, when we know it just never joined in the first place.
You've mentioned Churchill a few times - what's he up to? Given Mosleyite Britain's increased hostility to Germany over OTL, I can't imagine him being as politically isolated as OTL. Is he part of the Conservative shadow cabinet?
You've hit on two good points there, both of which will become more apparent as things progress. Mosley's view on Eastern Europe is quite simple- it should be a zone of German influence much in the same way as Latin America is for the US. As he puts it, "the only policy which can logically produce another explosion on the western frontiers of Germany is the denial of expansion on her eastern frontiers"
This view is not hugely popular within the Labour Party to say the least, although it is something shared by many on the Right. This particular fault-line hasn't really become apparent yet although it will in time, especially as the main opposition to Mosley increasingly comes from the deeply anti-fascist ILP.
That particluar sentence is actually OTL Mosley- I suppose he's referring to Wilson championing the idea of the League and then being unable to get the US to accept it.
Churchill is busy being a nusiance on the backbenches, and will crop up a fair bit as things go on- he's a perennial leadership hopeful, but ITTL cigar-smoking, jovial mavericks with views unpalatable to many in the Party don't do that well in the quest to be leader of the Conservatives...
This will cause real problems with the French as well, as they recognise the Germans will always want Alsace..
If Mosely can redirect Hitler's territorial ambitions to go after Poland rather the Czecheslovakia, at least at first, then the day of reckoning can be delayed. I doubt the ILP will shed many tear for the quasi-fascist/authoritarian regime there.
He's talking abiut defectingd from the idea of the League, not the organisation itself.