One question? I am wondering why Germany has gone for space-based nukes. Didn't that idea turn out to be implausible, and have no real advantage over ICBMs anyway? Why have they not just gone for a few dozen ICBMs as a deterrent? Or did Von Braun and others leave for some reason?
A Greater Britain, Mk2
- Thread starter EdT
- Start date
Perchaps ICBMs can be intercepted by some sort of SDI system, thus forcing Germany to move their nukes to orbit? Thought 1976 might be too early for that.
Wonderful, concise, poetic/suggestive ending.
I do especially like the thought of AC being a Mosleyite Labour MP.
Also with that wonderful nod to 'Thaxted'. I get the sense that there is a good deal more radicalism of thought and action in the British politics of this TL than historically.
It made me think, actually, on other people's career trajectories: in this TL, Harold Macmillan would very probably have joined Labour too.
I do especially like the thought of AC being a Mosleyite Labour MP.
Also with that wonderful nod to 'Thaxted'. I get the sense that there is a good deal more radicalism of thought and action in the British politics of this TL than historically.It made me think, actually, on other people's career trajectories: in this TL, Harold Macmillan would very probably have joined Labour too.
Dr. Strangelove
Banned
I have only been skimming through this, but I have to join the cheering crowd, bravo!.
Only a nitpicking: Unless the constitution was rewritten, Franco couldn't be elected President of the Republic since the 1931 constitution specifically barred members of the military from running to the presidential office.
Only a nitpicking: Unless the constitution was rewritten, Franco couldn't be elected President of the Republic since the 1931 constitution specifically barred members of the military from running to the presidential office.
maverick
Banned
Further thoughts...
-Do the Japanese still become an economic-scientific powerhouse in such a TL? you know, as IOTL with the Japanese cars and products invading the american and European markets...
-What on earth happened with the Polish war? I'd assume that there be either massive amounts of soviet incompetence or massive amounts of foreign aid...if not both...
-Bharatavarsha? which one is that on the map? the big white one or the black one not in the Indian Union?
-Nipticks: JFK and JPK Jr would be unlikely to argue...Joe Sr. was all about family unity and their kids were really obedient...otherwise...Would Joe Kennedy have remained as Ambassador to the Court of Saint James for much longer? that'd surely help his political career...
Also, just for curiosity...which countries have nukes ITTL? I'd guess that Germany, France, USSR, Italy,Japan, USA, UK...
-Do the Japanese still become an economic-scientific powerhouse in such a TL? you know, as IOTL with the Japanese cars and products invading the american and European markets...
-What on earth happened with the Polish war? I'd assume that there be either massive amounts of soviet incompetence or massive amounts of foreign aid...if not both...
-Bharatavarsha? which one is that on the map? the big white one or the black one not in the Indian Union?
-Nipticks: JFK and JPK Jr would be unlikely to argue...Joe Sr. was all about family unity and their kids were really obedient...otherwise...Would Joe Kennedy have remained as Ambassador to the Court of Saint James for much longer? that'd surely help his political career...
Also, just for curiosity...which countries have nukes ITTL? I'd guess that Germany, France, USSR, Italy,Japan, USA, UK...
- I'm intrigued by TTL space programme. We seem to have Bull's satellite launchers. It's Earth lifting capability higher than OTL? Do we have reusable shuttles or massive rockets? We also seem to have orbital weapon platforms. Is kinetic bombardment developed? Do we have a space station. Did man land on the Moon?
- Khenchela apparently was nuked during the Algierian war of independence. Was it the only time nuclear weapons were used in anger?
- According to the map the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxemburg are outsite of TTL European Union. Why is that? Hungary also seems to be out for some reason.
- Disunited India? Very good. it's plausible and yet you don't really see them in post-WWII timelines very often.
- IMHO your map is a bit illegible. Maybe you could repost it in full color in the Map Thread? (Also the Amazon delta region of Brazilian coastline seems overly distorted)
- I thought we will get Tony Jonesque desciptions of TTL major countries. Should we expect them?
TTL's space programme is behind OTL's, on balance; rocket technology isn't as developed as there isn't a space race. My vague idea was that satellite launchers would turn up in the mid 1960s, roughly at the same time as the Germans start getting the same result with rockets. Once the Germans get a man into space (late 60s-ish), then the West would start pursuing this avenue. The US and USSR are going to be wildcards.
I haven't decided if Kenchala was the only place to be nuked ITTL; the other candidates for the deployment of the bomb would probably be during the Indian civil war or in the Chinese Revolution.
As for why Benelux is ouside the European Union, I figured that they would find membership to conflict with the traditional neutrality. I rather assumed they would have a pretty close political connection of their own.
Glad you like India- I thought it'd be a bit of an interesting change.
I may post the map in colour- I have a copy of it that way. I chose black and white to fit with the aesthetic of the e-book.
I don't plan any descriptions of the major countries as such, although they will hopefully get fleshed out in the 'Scenes from A Greater Britain' that I'm planning- of more soon...
That was one of the things I wanted to get across- I suppose it's neither better or worse then OTL, just different. As for Europe, I'm not sure; there's not the same destruction as OTL but then again the world will be more protectionist.
On the nukes question, the main reason was that I thought it would be different from OTL, and quite cool; Nazi space platforms just seemed like an entertaining idea. I also have a political reason in mind for the Germans to favour space stations, which will become more apparent when post the vignette I have planned.
I'm glad you liked the inclusion of Clark; I felt he fitted the Mosleyite theme rather well. As for other turncoats, I can see Cecil Parkinson remaining in Labour (he was a supporter at one point OTL). Not sure if any Labour people would end up Tories ITTL, nobody immediately comes to mind I have to say...
On Japan, I would doubt that it would develop as OTL; if nothing else, the Japanese are bogged down in China until the late 1950s. What it would look like instead, I'm not really sure tbh.
With the Polish war, I assumed an initially good Polish performance followed by an inexorable Soviet advance and a resultant Western panic. Magnificate has some excellent ideas of how things would develop, and I hope he might write something about it soon
Bharatavarsha is the large state in OTL's Gujarat, Rajahstan and Uttar Pradesh. The three Commonwealth states not in the Indian Union are Kashmir, Hyderabad and Balochistan .
Actually, I figured Kennedy might well be the Vice-Presidential nominee at some point along the line, most likely 1940; this was being talked about OTL but his behaivour in Britain put paid to that. Considering Joe Snr's health OTL, I could see him dying in the mid 1960's, so I think there's a certain amount of scope for a family disagreement.
Which countries have nukes? By 1976, the UK, France, Italy, Germany, USSR, US, Japan, Bharatavarsha (thanks to German aid) and possibly China. I wouldn't be wholly surprised if the Poles also had a bomb, although there might be a Euro-bomb instead. If Bharatavarsha has nukes, I wouldn't be wholly surprised if one or more of the Indian Union states have a programme.
Well, note that I didn't specify what happened to the Labour Left, or indeed the Liberals... There's certainly scope for a Labour/ILP split too. The Butlerite ascendancy in the Conservative Party implies that the Tories will try to steal Labour's Mosleyite clothes, and they may succeed if the Left get sufficiently antsy; OTOH, Powell's Premiership implies that the laissez-faire wing is in charge for now.
I'll be waiting for the vignettes and the "Scenes from A Greater Britain"...whatever those are...
Watch this space, an announcement on that will come once I've published the E-book .pdf.
That would certainly be interesting... the Liberals as the opposition small government, social liberal party. Now, where have I seen that happen before? Oh yeah...
Briiiits iiiiin Spaaaace!!!
(ps: I can't find the thread - would provide linky if I could)
...and here we are- the E-book, which can be found here. I've made a few small changes thanks to some excellent advice from Magnificate; This should be the finished version, although some misprints have almost inevitably crept in! I've put this in the timeline section as well; stay tuned for a further announcement shortly...
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Two quick questions regarding your e-book:
1. Why did you concentrated footnotes at the end of each chapter? It made sense for messageboard release, but when I read a book I find it more convenient to have each footnote on a page, where it is refered.
2. On map 9 Danzig (Europe in 1950) is a part of East Prussia, while in map 10 (1976) it is not. Is it a mistake, or did something interesting happened during the 40s and 60s in Danzig?
3. I've experimenting with animated maps, and my first creations is related to your TL.
Take a look.
1. Why did you concentrated footnotes at the end of each chapter? It made sense for messageboard release, but when I read a book I find it more convenient to have each footnote on a page, where it is refered.
2. On map 9 Danzig (Europe in 1950) is a part of East Prussia, while in map 10 (1976) it is not. Is it a mistake, or did something interesting happened during the 40s and 60s in Danzig?
3. I've experimenting with animated maps, and my first creations is related to your TL.
Take a look.
1. I tried putting footnotes at the end of each page, but it didn't work; on pages with many footnotes or long ones you occasionally had tiny bits of real text. It's a styistic choice really, I just felt it worked a little better that way round.
2. Bugger, these sorts of mistakes always creep in- this is as a result of me changing my mind about stuff after I made the maps, and my alterations not being 100% complete. When I produce a 2nd edition
rolleyes I'll iron that out.3. Interesting stuff. BTW, the best way to do arrows in photoshop is via the vector line tool; wile drawing a line, click on the "geometry options" arrow to the left of where it says 'weight', and you can get it to raw a line with an arrowhead on the end. Very useful for showing military advances, as my last map contest entry showed!
Thande
Donor
Really excellent, EdT! Very professional. I now realise why you did all those maps in greyscale - the thing as a whole looks like it could be published by Cambridge University Press
If I can add a nitpick for your 2nd edition on page 103 there does not appear to be a caption for the third photograph.
If I can add a nitpick for your 2nd edition
on page 103 there does not appear to be a caption for the third photograph.