A grab-bag of Oswald Mosely WIs...

Obviously we're never going to get a BUF-run Britain short of something seriously weird or ASBs, but that doesn't mean that Oswald Mosely doesn't lend himself to some interesting WIs...

1: Very Dead Mosley

The plane crash that OTL left Mosley with a permanant limp (obligatory sarky comeback: "A limp what?") goes a little differently, and the young aristocrat becomes a line on Winchester College's war memorial. Wither interwar British fascism? Does the movement remain very much on the lunatic fringe and future allohistorians futilely spend their time trying to shoehorn Rotha Lintorn-Orman or Arnold Leese into the position of a British Fuhrer instead of Mosely? I have a feeling that without a leader of Mosley's standing the various British fascist movements would be even more hopelessly balkanised and inconsequential then OTL. The lack of the BUF would also probably keep quite a few people who became fascists OTL inside their respective parties, which might cause some interesting butterflies. No Public Order Act of 1936? More focus on the Communists as a potential fifth column perhaps? One interesting change is that the flag of the Singaporean People's Action Party is going to be different, as it's a straight copy of the BUF's...

2: Mosley wins Birmingham Ladywood

OTL, Mosley stood against Neville Chamberlain in the 1924 election- he lost by just 77 votes. Let's reverse this, and have Chamberlain being the one who's narrowly defeated. Effects? Well, Mosley's going to have more time to build up a power-base within the Labour Party which can only be a good thing for him. Assuming he comes up with a variation on his OTL economic plan (which is pretty likely IMO) Mosely could very well find himself the head of a large school of thought within the Labour party arguing for radical economic intervention. Mosely probably gets a more juicy cabinet post then OTL, but when he inveitably resigns in frustration at Macdonald he's rather well-placed IMO to become leader of the post-split Party, if A: He can resist his temptation to leave it and start afresh, and B: he retains his seat in 1931. Which would be fun... Do we still need to wait for 1945 for Labour to get in power or would Mosley's decisive leadership seriously weaken the National goverment? Ooh, Mosley as Labour leader would probably bugger around with the abdication, though I've no idea what his stance on that was. Probably pro-David though. Hmmm... might we get an unwisely-called election on the issue that brings down Baldwin and gets Labour into office? Probably not but it'd be an entertaining TL... Any idea where this might go?

3: The Labour delegates adopt the "Mosely Memorandum" in 1930

Really just a variation on #2 with a later PoD- Or does the conference's brave move rescue the Labour government? Such radical policy changes would probably neccesitate the calling of an early election, and would do something to remove the impression of hopeless drift, "boneless-wonders" etc that Labour was giving off at the time.

4: A more successful New Party

Probably needs #2 as a PoD... Mosley gets more of a following in Labour, and when he breaks off in 1930 he takes a dozen MPs with him instead of six. This is a decent nucleus of MPs. In a butterfly, Mosely decides to emphasise the origins of his grouping, and calls his party "New Labour"... ;) (that phrase really does seem to fit Mosely). In any case, Mosely realises that to truly break the mold of British politics an ally is needed- and who better then that great man of British politics David Lloyd George? Mosley and Lloyd George had similar economic views and Mosley repsected the Welsh Wizard as a man of action so it might not be too implausible. When the election comes round it's fought under a "New Labour/Liberal Alliance" coupon- and Lloyd George's illness means that Mosely takes the dominant role in the partnership over the course of the campaign. With Liberal support the Alliance is able to get getting on for 60 MPs, which is a good start especially if Labour's completely demolished as OTL... Does this create a viable "third force" in British politics, or is it just the SDP-Liberal alliance half a century early? Which is in itself interesting of course...

Thoughts?
 
2: Mosley wins Birmingham Ladywood

OTL, Mosley stood against Neville Chamberlain in the 1924 election- he lost by just 77 votes. Let's reverse this, and have Chamberlain being the one who's narrowly defeated. Effects? Well, Mosley's going to have more time to build up a power-base within the Labour Party which can only be a good thing for him. Assuming he comes up with a variation on his OTL economic plan (which is pretty likely IMO) Mosely could very well find himself the head of a large school of thought within the Labour party arguing for radical economic intervention. Mosely probably gets a more juicy cabinet post then OTL, but when he inveitably resigns in frustration at Macdonald he's rather well-placed IMO to become leader of the post-split Party, if A: He can resist his temptation to leave it and start afresh, and B: he retains his seat in 1931. Which would be fun... Do we still need to wait for 1945 for Labour to get in power or would Mosley's decisive leadership seriously weaken the National goverment? Ooh, Mosley as Labour leader would probably bugger around with the abdication, though I've no idea what his stance on that was. Probably pro-David though. Hmmm... might we get an unwisely-called election on the issue that brings down Baldwin and gets Labour into office? Probably not but it'd be an entertaining TL... Any idea where this might go?

Option 2 is interesting. Would Mosely end up as PM if Labour did get into office? If so how he interacts with Hitler could be interesting. I do not see an alliance necessarily, but he might have turned a blind eye on Germany's drive to eliminate Soviet Russia (as long as both sides completely exhaust themselves allowing the UK to meddle and get things to go their way). Or I suppose it could go the other way instead if Mosely wanted to stir British nationalism.
 
Well, as Labour leader Mosley's going to have a good chance of becoming PM at some point... I think the only problem might be that he's too impatient to wait for a decade like Atlee did. I could see him resigning in disgust if he didn't get into power in 1935, although that makes for a boring TL.

As for his relationship with Hitler... well that's an interesting one. Remember that in this TL Mosley is a Labourite rather then a Fascist, and so his party's anti-fascist opinion will have a lot of part to play. Britain will probably have re-armed five years earlier as well if Mosley gets into power, to help with the economic recovery. Perhaps a pro-Italian policy that lets Mussolini feel able to stand up to Hitler over the Anschluss? A Labour government in Britain is never going to be pro-Hitler, indeed I could see Mosley being far less amenable to Germany's demands towards Czechoslovakia then Chamberlain. Perhaps war in 1938?

I think I may have inspired myself to do a TL based on this...
 
The Mosleyite Labour party would have to overturn the national government. This has two of ther largest majorities ever in 1931 and 1935 - this from a man quite likely to split the Labour party again.
 
If the UK rearms earlier then they may suffer a bit of a problem like Italy did in that they rearmed too soon in comparison to the rest of Europe (although Italy suffered a lot of other problems that many others have gone over). Hmm this could start an earlier arms race (Maybe as soon as Hitler reoccupied the Rhineland?).

Lots of interesting possibilities. I look forward to your TL.
 
Wozza- Yeah, that is the problem... I'm thinking though that by messing around with MacDonald splitting the party you could avoid a lot of the Labour weakness in the period. A strong alternative to Macdonald within Labour would help matters- the impression I get of Labour post-1931 is of general drift and paralysis, and a strong leader with very definite (and distinctive) ideas may help stop some of the haemmorage of voters in the election campaign. Obviously it's still going to be a catastrophic defeat for Labour, but that's not a wholly bad thing for Mosely as it gives him a blank canvas to start again with and allows him to stamp his authority on the Party.

1935 is the key I think, and I think a distinctive alternative to the National government would be quite successful in the 1931-1935 parliament. Mosley could really let himself go challenging the 'old gangs' represented by the National government, and the inconguity of seeing Tories, Liberals and Labour politicians together would give his condemnations a certain degree of verisimilitude. If he can give the national Govermnent the air of dreary self-serving consensus by the political elite he might just be able to clinch it- he may well need a coalition with some Liberals in the end but it should possible. I think it can be done although it'll need more detail to be anything more then a handwave at present.

Shadow Knight- Yeah, that is a good point, although earlier re-arming by Britain probably means an earlier confrontation with Hitler when German forces are pretty weak as well, and so might not be a problem. Things could go pear-shaped though...

As you say, a lot of interesting possibilities... Have sketched out the outline but want to do this properly, so this may be something of a long-term project.
 
EdT said:
One interesting change is that the flag of the Singaporean People's Action Party is going to be different, as it's a straight copy of the BUF's...

Good Lord- I had never noticed that :D
 
EdT said:
As you say, a lot of interesting possibilities... Have sketched out the outline but want to do this properly, so this may be something of a long-term project.

Those are usually the best.


Anyway, as long as Britain doesn't bankrupt themselves they should be okay, but they may not be able to sink as much cash into some research programs, or have a wide diversity of such things as tanks, planes, etc.

An interesting thing would be to concentrate on building up the fleet (a good thing for large employers such as steel mills and shipyards which may be popular with the masses) which may deter Hitler from pursing a significant surface fleet and concentrate on a fleet big enough to control the Baltic (i.e challenge the Soviets) and a huge submarine arm.
 

Thande

Donor
EdT said:
One interesting change is that the flag of the Singaporean People's Action Party is going to be different, as it's a straight copy of the BUF's...

Well, not quite a straight copy, but certainly heavily influenced:

http://flagspot.net/images/g/gb}buf2.gif

http://flagspot.net/images/s/sg}pap.gif
 
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