A Glorious Union or America: the New Sparta

[TheKnightIrish]

I am now looking at Lincoln's Second Term:

1. Domestic policies not connected directly with Reconstruction;
2. Reconstruction including the 14th Amendment (amended from OTL);
3. Foreign Affairs;
4. The Military; and
5. The Supreme Court...

 

[sloreck]

2nd term domestic politics:

You may see unionism start up earlier in the USA as Lincoln was generally sympathetic to the situation of the average laborer. It will still be skilled/craft unions that are first, but the union movement may be 10 years ahead of OTL in terms of evolution. The other new factor will be that African-Americans who otherwise qualify for union membership (being skilled craftsmen/mechanics) will be in unions from the start as segregation/Jim Crow is not going to get off the ground here for a number of reasons.

 

[Admiral Matt]

I am now looking at Lincoln's Second Term:

1. Domestic policies not connected directly with Reconstruction;
2. Reconstruction including the 14th Amendment (amended from OTL);
3. Foreign Affairs;
4. The Military; and
5. The Supreme Court...

I'm looking forward to your take on the "real" Lincoln, especially in terms of labor, as sloreck mentions. It's amazing to read Lincoln's thoughts on the matter from the perspective of a modern American. Most Americans, if shown the more emphatic quotes of Lincoln regarding workers rights and told they were translated excerpts from Marx, would have little trouble believing it.

 

[iddt3]

I just burned my way through this time line from start to finish ; Excellent work! I'm guess the American Ally Grant starts a war with is Imperial Mexico in an attempt to support the Republicans, which kind of meshes with the Austrian and Mexican Marines taking pictures with a captured American. Kearney is Francophile but other Presidents may not share that inclination. Though I have a hard time seeing a US that doesn't let it's military stagnate the way it did OTL post civil war not being able to stomp any reasonable Imperial Mexico.

 

[TheKnightIrish]

2nd term domestic politics:

You may see unionism start up earlier in the USA as Lincoln was generally sympathetic to the situation of the average laborer. It will still be skilled/craft unions that are first, but the union movement may be 10 years ahead of OTL in terms of evolution. The other new factor will be that African-Americans who otherwise qualify for union membership (being skilled craftsmen/mechanics) will be in unions from the start as segregation/Jim Crow is not going to get off the ground here for a number of reasons.

I'm looking forward to your take on the "real" Lincoln, especially in terms of labor, as sloreck mentions. It's amazing to read Lincoln's thoughts on the matter from the perspective of a modern American. Most Americans, if shown the more emphatic quotes of Lincoln regarding workers rights and told they were translated excerpts from Marx, would have little trouble believing it.

I will have to look at Lincoln's views on labour. I thought that was just a Turtledoveism!

I just burned my way through this time line from start to finish ; Excellent work! I'm guess the American Ally Grant starts a war with is Imperial Mexico in an attempt to support the Republicans, which kind of meshes with the Austrian and Mexican Marines taking pictures with a captured American. Kearney is Francophile but other Presidents may not share that inclination. Though I have a hard time seeing a US that doesn't let it's military stagnate the way it did OTL post civil war not being able to stomp any reasonable Imperial Mexico.

I am glad to hear it (though I can't imagine how long it would take to read it all now in one go!).

Grant's war remains top secret but we will see a much changed (more active) foreign policy as a result of having more "Americans" abroad and a large army in search of a post-reconstruction purpose...

 

[ChucK Y]

How did the government finance maintaining a large army? During the OTL Civil War, two-thirds of the financing was through sale of war bonds, which would need to be repaid. That source would dry up with the onset of peace; no one would want the government to continue to kick debts into the future. Taxes, which were increased greatly during the war, accounted for only one-fifth of the federal financing. The income tax, which was begun in 1861, was very unpopular, and OTL was declared unconstitutional.

In the 1850s, federal spending averaged $1 million a week; by mid-1861 it was spending $1.5 million per day, and by the end of the war OTL was spending $3.5 million per day. There would be a great outcry for a return to peacetime finances when peace came.

 

[TheKnightIrish]

How did the government finance maintaining a large army? During the OTL Civil War, two-thirds of the financing was through sale of war bonds, which would need to be repaid. That source would dry up with the onset of peace; no one would want the government to continue to kick debts into the future. Taxes, which were increased greatly during the war, accounted for only one-fifth of the federal financing. The income tax, which was begun in 1861, was very unpopular, and OTL was declared unconstitutional.

In the 1850s, federal spending averaged $1 million a week; by mid-1861 it was spending $1.5 million per day, and by the end of the war OTL was spending $3.5 million per day. There would be a great outcry for a return to peacetime finances when peace came.

The army on paper post war is about 20,000-30,000 men greater than that authorised. In practise TTL's Federal Government will do a better job of making sure it is up to strength, which it rarely was in OTL.

In terms of finance we have the existing tariffs which I see remaining in force in one form or another. I agree that the income tax will have to go. There is also the confiscated estates, both real property and less tangible assets, confiscated from proscribed persons. There will be a different and earlier settlement of the Alabama claims. Also there will be a willingness to bear more taxation so long as the South is perceived as a threat or at least at risk of causing trouble again...

I expect that there will be quite a bit of work for the Supreme Court to do in TTL's Reconstruction as there is an awful lot more punitive legislation in place than even in OTL.

 

[iddt3]

I will have to look at Lincoln's views on labour. I thought that was just a Turtledoveism!



I am glad to hear it (though I can't imagine how long it would take to read it all now in one go!).

Grant's war remains top secret but we will see a much changed (more active) foreign policy as a result of having more "Americans" abroad and a large army in search of a post-reconstruction purpose...

About a week, at an hour or two a day. I might have skimmed some of the battle scenes, as unfortunately a lot of the old picture links don't work anymore, so no maps to help orient. Still, it's very good, and thoroughly researched. My interest in the TL is mainly the alt-political endpoint (more authoritarian, centralist, interventionist US), at least in part because it seems to be heading for neither Utopia or Dystopia. Though the War of the Emperor's Alliance sounds ominous.

Actually, it sounds like there will be at least two more wars with Mexico, because I think that war happened in the 20's, but Confederate characters mention being involved with what sounds like another war with the US, and they would be far too old to participate in the 1920s. I am kind of curious how there could be two meaningful rounds; unless America completely flubs the first fight, it seems like any peace terms would be aimed at Finlandizing Mexico, and ultimately it's really not in Mexico's interest to be on bad terms with it's Northern neighbor; It's not quite as bad as the US/Canada, but the US is inevitably going to be a huge source of investment and trade, and the border between the two is far too big to properly defend, which means that the side with the manpower and infrastructure advantage is in a much better position.

 

[Corder]

I can't see an Imperial Mexico being much more stable than Republican Mexico, at least in the short term. There will be revolts and anarchy on the periphery for some time to come I suspect. Who knows - Grant might be going on some Pershing-like bandit hunting in Northern Mexico.

Anyway glad to see an update.

 

[sloreck]

In this TL the USA is going to have to maintain a larger army than OTL because the reconstruction is going to be deeper/longer and enforced more vigorously. While Lincoln was not in favor of an overly harsh reconstruction here you are seeing disenfranchisement of a substantial number of southerners, and of course the exile of many. Combine this with the more thorough enfranchisement of African-Americans and you have a situation where Union "power" will need to be present much more so than OTL. Even before states were re-admitted to the Union the political, social, and economic leading classes of the south were back in the saddle in ways from employment contracts and rules for black labor little better than slavery to marginalization and shunning of any pro-Union elements or even those who sought reconciliation (like Longstreet). The US economy can support such a force without the need for the wartime tax structure.

 

[Darth_Kiryan]

I can't see an Imperial Mexico being much more stable than Republican Mexico, at least in the short term. There will be revolts and anarchy on the periphery for some time to come I suspect. Who knows - Grant might be going on some Pershing-like bandit hunting in Northern Mexico.

Anyway glad to see an update.

And as much as the emigrating Confederates are coming down into Mexico, i can't see them making Mexico that much more stabler either - at least for the moment.

 

[TheKnightIrish]

And as much as the emigrating Confederates are coming down into Mexico, i can't see them making Mexico that much more stabler either - at least for the moment.

The experienced manpower will help as will some capital (what little comes with them) but their existence brings trouble with the Church as a bare minimum.

 

[Kaiphranos]

Finally made it to the end of this, after starting earlier this week. The remaining portraits in the earlier updates remind me that the 19th century seems to have been the Golden Age of Facial Hair...

On a more serious note, I am interested to see how Imperial Mexico gets on. And further south yet, have any butterflies reached the Platine basin? The War of the Triple Alliance should be kicking off soon...

 

[xxmagex]

Looking forward to the next update,
Bumpity bumpy

 

[Corder]

May I echo these sentiments. I hope you get over your writers block soon. God how I hate the tyranny of the blank page!

 

[TheKnightIrish]

Thank you for all the encouragement. I think my dry patch may be over. When I say I am finding the voices again I mean the different, competing viewpoints and not that I am only compelled to write by the voices! (Though actually that is probably true too!

Research has resumed in earnest. I am expecting the chapters on Lincoln's second term to start following early next week.

 

[Shadow Knight]

Thank you for all the encouragement. I think my dry patch may be over. When I say I am finding the voices again I mean the different, competing viewpoints and not that I am only compelled to write by the voices! (Though actually that is probably true too!

Research has resumed in earnest. I am expecting the chapters on Lincoln's second term to start following early next week.

Huzzah! Huzzah to the return of the voices! I think...

 

[TFSmith121]

The voices...

Thank you for all the encouragement. I think my dry patch may be over. When I say I am finding the voices again I mean the different, competing viewpoints and not that I am only compelled to write by the voices! (Though actually that is probably true too!

Research has resumed in earnest. I am expecting the chapters on Lincoln's second term to start following early next week.

The voices... of Alternate Histories Past!

Bwa-ha-ha-ha...

Best,

 

[TheKnightIrish]

Did anyone spot if I listed the full Supreme Court member list. I can find my written note.

PS - Reconstruction and the Supreme Court: what a complete shower!

 

[Corder]

Did anyone spot if I listed the full Supreme Court member list. I can find my written note.

PS - Reconstruction and the Supreme Court: what a complete shower!

I just recall David Davis elevation to Chief and the appointment of William McKee Dunn.