A Giant Sucking Sound: a President Perot TL
- Thread starter MaskedPickle
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The Poarter
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I wonder what would happen if some portal allowed everyone to see this universe and everyone in this timeline to see our world. What what do you think that would do?
IMO, this would generally be a more merchantilist rather than liberal (in the Adam Smith sense of the word) world. This will have some positive consequences like more egalitarianism and a more solid economic base for recovery but on the other hand would be more prone to trade wars/currency conflicts due to the weakening of various international economic institutions like the WTO that will create more insecurity.
Overall, this world would be more vibrant and thrilling if not dangerous. There would be a greater revival of intellectualism due to its prominence in pop culture starting with A Confederacy of Dunces and the more complex political questions posed by a three-party political environment in the US.
I am pretty certain that MaskedPickle took his ideas for the Trump presidency from his OTL 2000 book The America We Deserve. In it he detailed how he was outright in favour of a national health service (and has implied on various occasions in OTL 2016 that he still is). In addition, Russ Feingold is also in favour of a national health service. I cannot say for certain whether MaskedPickle intended for either of these figures to be successful although the introductory perspective from TTL 2013 on page 1 mentions a "reformed" healthcare service (although we cannot know what this means exactly).
I was thinking today about how another one of Trump's policies, public campaign financing might contribute to another wave of political radicalization from 2006 - present. There is a general public disdain for corrupt politics across the political spectrum. Therefore, if US politicians had to publish their campaign financiers in their campaigns, the voters would likely gravitate more to those politicians whose support is visibly grassroots in its nature. As these politicians would be more principled, there would be a greater likelihood of them also being more radical. This likely explains the later political successes of Russ Feingold, Ted Nugent, and Jello Biafra ("elites can't buy them").
Speaking of Jello Biafra, I imagine that his administration of California would be of the extreme "nationalize everything" variety (after all, he is in favour of a MAXIMUM WAGE among other things). I think that one policy initiative would be to nationalize a failing MGM as a "treasure of California's cultural heritage" meaning that in TTL it would produce more than James Bond films.
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After all these years, I realize that a major theme of this TL is the deconstruction of the third party in the US political system. Yes, while the Freedom Party has survived and gives a voice to those who are marginalized by the current system, it's also attracts a number of fringe and sometimes unstable political figures, some very publicity driven, like Jesse Ventura. The fact that Donald Trump got elected shows this. It is also very unstable, because it is a popular front, which extends from the center right to the far left, which causes a lot of friction within the party. The 2000 election, with the chaotic convention and Jerry Brown and Bernie Sanders splitting off is a big example of this. The party has a massive identity problem, largely stemming from the fact that its members have a number of contrasting views.
The Poarter
Banned
On the other hand it can also be considered a reconstruction if we consider the world it has created. Yes alot of stuff sucks but the fact that quite a few instances of what is wrong in our world gets fixed shows that despite, or perhaps because of, the chaos this world is better than our own.
I personally think that terrorism worldwide would be at 1960s - 1970s levels. It is largely forgotten today how around that time, pretty much every radical/nationalist mindset led many to terrorism (i.e. Japanese Red Army, Minutemen, Weather Underground, IRA, German Marxists, PLO, Italian Marxists, the "Angry Brigade" in Britain, etc). Ultimately, the modern world isn't really more dangerous than in the recent past. It is largely the images rather than the actual events that are more pervasive due to the modern 24-hour mass media, which didn't exist as we know it in the 1960s - 70s.
I specified specific reasons above for why I believe that different circumstances would lead other groups (i.e. populist right in Europe) to terrorism. One should also consider the fact that this world never saw the shift away from what Isaiah Berlin called "positive liberty" (freedom from oneself for the sake of individual and collective improvement) and towards negative liberty (freedom from coercion) as there is a greater impression that one can change society for the better through collective involvement (one can learn about how these concepts shaped the past couple decades in Adam Curtis' The Trap: What Happened to Our Dream of Freedom - Episode 3).
The Poarter
Banned
What do you guys think has happened to these countries in this timeline:
- South Korea
- New Zealand
- Iran
- Jordan
- Bostwana
- Tanzania
- Netherlands
- Argentina
- Dominican Republic
"LEE TENG-HUI REELECTED, 40% TO PENG MING-MIN’S 32%
-China Times, March, 23 1996"
I don't see the Chinese government responding to a Lee Teng-hui declaration of independence with an encouragement to back the DPP candidate, as the DPP was unapologetically pro-independence in 1996. A Chinese threat would result in increased support for Lin Yang-Kang among Taiwanese scared for war.
-China Times, March, 23 1996"
I don't see the Chinese government responding to a Lee Teng-hui declaration of independence with an encouragement to back the DPP candidate, as the DPP was unapologetically pro-independence in 1996. A Chinese threat would result in increased support for Lin Yang-Kang among Taiwanese scared for war.
Indeed - particularly since Trump is fundamentally an ideal Freedomite candidate in OTL as much as TTL, particularly with regard to his merchantilist convictions. One should also consider that in spite of his highly inflammatory (and occasionally worrying) rhetoric this campaign season, he is a relative moderate with regard to elements the welfare state (in favor of defending it and some friends of his (i.e. Conrad Black) still believe he is secretly in favor of single-payer healthcare), which is in line with the more "centrist" appeal of the fictional Freedomites. Finally, his foreign policy views are more in line with a kind of (clumsy) realpolitik as opposed to the humanitarian, international diplomacy focused worldview stereotypical of the Democrats and the aggressive "freedom" evangelism that is stereotypical of the Republicans.
I have to admit, the OTL 2016 climate does spookily resemble the TTL 1996 climate in many ways. Let's see, the current administration has been engulfed over the past few years by a deteriorating security situation at home and abroad and the world has seen an upsurge in international terrorism including a particularly bloody one by Islamists in Paris. The election season that year sees tremendous enthusiasm for a more radical Democrat of Jewish heritage from a rural, northern state. After a triumph at the New Hampshire primary, his insurgent campaign increases momentum against the moderate wing of the Democrats. Ultimately, the insurgent's campaign comes to a tragic failure and the Democrats nominate the first female candidate in history with an "iron lady" persona who scored most primary victories in Southern states and in spite of being a traditionally DLC Democrat, she tries to placate the left-wing insurgents by running as a lite version of his dead campaign. She is deeply troubled by accusations of cronyism by left and right and most hold off these accusations to effectively challenge her Republican opponent.
The opponent is another insurgent notorious for his firebrand rhetoric, controversial statements about minorities, accusations of enthusiastic support by the lunatic fringe, and a clumsy grasp of foreign policy.
Sound familiar?
I'd say the parallel is a bit of a stretch, given that Wellstone's campaign ends due to him being assassinated (a genuine tragedy), while Sanders ended because three and a half million people voted for Clinton over him (disappointing, but hardly on the level of "shot by white supremacists").
Here is my questions after reading this timeline. It was a awesome reading C:
Well here are my questions about whether do they exist or not.
Does Sonic the Hedgehog still exist in timeline. (I know Pokemon doesn't since the creator died in the Nagoya blast) (Plus Sonic was my childhood for a 2000's kid playing Sonic Advance series and watching Sonic X)
What about Spongebob? Does it exist like in reality, and does it still air in 1999? Or does Nick not even have it. I can't imagine what it would be like without that show that has now become a icon.
No Fresh Prince of Bel-Air? So no catchy fun tune?
What about Everyone Loves Raymond? Especially the actor Ray Romano? Where is he, did he even become popular celebrity?
Also Family Guy, does Seth still makes it as TV show on FOX?
Well here are my questions about whether do they exist or not.
Does Sonic the Hedgehog still exist in timeline. (I know Pokemon doesn't since the creator died in the Nagoya blast) (Plus Sonic was my childhood for a 2000's kid playing Sonic Advance series and watching Sonic X)
What about Spongebob? Does it exist like in reality, and does it still air in 1999? Or does Nick not even have it. I can't imagine what it would be like without that show that has now become a icon.
No Fresh Prince of Bel-Air? So no catchy fun tune?
What about Everyone Loves Raymond? Especially the actor Ray Romano? Where is he, did he even become popular celebrity?
Also Family Guy, does Seth still makes it as TV show on FOX?
Sonic the Hedgehog debuted in June of 1991. Almost a full year before the POD.
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