A Giant Sucking Sound: a President Perot TL

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by MaskedPickle, Aug 23, 2011.

  1. MaskedPickle Well-Known Member

    I haven't thought of the TL-191 connotations, let's say it's an innocent reminescence... If he will have further influence on the narrative, it will be your guess!

    Putting famous people in alternate politics careers is the best toy of the alternate historian. We had President Walt Disney, President John Wayne, Prime Minister Hideaki Anno after all.

    As of the American Party, not only it was already taken by Dead Sea Squirrels in his Perot stint, it has too much negative connotations due to the xenophobic Know Nothing Party and George Wallace's American Independant Party. As of the Valors' Party, the name sounds a bit too convenient for a conservative party for me.

    And, to answer RazeByFire... Come on, you say I give him racist comments when I put in his mouth "colored", and not having him say "Negro", which was a much used term in Perot's youth, furthermore in the South? Oh, I know that he had his campaign sunk because he referred to the NAACP as "you people", but it's not because he's racist: I don't know about it, but let's say he's short-tempered and doesn't think to his words. We aren't in a rewriting of Philip Roth's The Human Stain, are we? I consider him as a maverick politician, refusing to use political doublespeak and using this unusual speech to insist on his specificity. But as of considering him racist... He's a Texan businessman, not a diplomat, who used populist terms and was more interested on economic issues than on foreign ones. Don't tell me that an oilman would be interested by the fate of Africa and starvation there. And by the way, Perot wasn't an oilman but worked on electronics and informatics: but it doesn't change anything to the matter, as working with other peoples doesn't mean you don't despise them in fact. See a bit in everyday life...
     
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  2. MaskedPickle Well-Known Member

    PEACE IN THE HOLY LAND ? PEROT PRESIDES SIGNING OF OSLO AGREEMENTS WITH RABIN AND ARAFAT
    -New York Times, September, 13 1993

    GUNS CONTROL PACKAGE PASSED IN SENATE ; HUGE PROTESTS CONTINUE ACCROSS THE UNION
    -Washington Post, September, 23 1993

    RUSSIAN TANKISTS REFUSE TO FIRE ON PARLIAMENT HOUSE, ARRESTED AND COURT-MARTIALED
    -New York Times, October, 4 1993

    RUSSIAN DEPUTIES SURRENDER SHORTLY AFTER MILITARY RAIDS
    -New York Times, October, 9 1993

    Even if the 1993 constitutional crisis reaffirmed for a while the control of President Yelstin over the country, it also had important ramifications that are necessary to understand the following events in Russia. First, the so-called « mutiny » of the first units dispatched near the Parliament House and ordered to fire on it led for a while the parliamentarians to believe the Army was supporting them, but barely delayed the final military assault that finally forced the rebels to step down. Not only Yelstin was seen as an authoritarian ready to use deadly force to assure its means, but he was all the more criticized for his failure to handle the military due to the mutiny. After the mutineers were court-martialed and condemned to various sentences ranging from death to jail, Defense Minister, General Pavel Grachev, who had made much to rally the army behind Yelstin during the coup attempt, was sacked along with other senior officers. The uproar within the army was great, and more and more officers defected or engaged in arms trafficking, as the terrible consequences would be seen in Japan. Grachev himself entered national politics but had to withdraw due to his many corruption affairs, and was replaced by General Alexander Lebed on the political scene.


    As of the public opinion, the harsh conclusion of the crisis was not only viewed as an evidence of Yelstin being a puppet to the hands of the oligarchs who were taking advantage of the privatization process, but the mutiny led electors to consider him as not tough enough to handle the Russian nation. The uproar was conveyed by the December, 12 results for the constitutional referendum and the parliamentary elections : even if the referendum was passed, the majority party in the House became Vladimir Zhirinovsky’s Liberal Democratic Party, seven points ahead of Yelstin-sponsored Russia’s Choice. Even if pundits announced that due to his chauvinistic, antisemitic and extravagant comments, Zhirinovsky’s momentum would soon vanish, he managed to renew his breakthrough in the 1995 elections…
    -From Democratic Hiatus : Russia under Yelstin, by Former Ambassador Condoleezza Rice, Ph.D., Professor of Political Science at Stanford University

    GENERAL AIDID’S FORCES DEFEATED, LEAVE MOGADISHU
    -CNN, October, 14 1993

    BENAZIR BHUTTO RETURNS AS PAKISTANI PRIME MINISTER
    -New York Times, October, 19 1993

    LIBERALS IN A LANDSLIDE, CHRETIEN TO BECOME PM ; PROGRESSIVE CONSERVATIVES SMASHED, BLOC QUEBECOIS BECOMES OFFICIAL OPPOSITION
    -The Globe and Mail, October, 25 1993

    1993 gubernatorial elections, November, 2 :
    New Jersey : James Florio (D) narrowly re-elected
    Virginia : George Allen (R) elected, succeeds Douglas Wilder (D)

    « It’s now official : by 48, 3%, with a very thin margin, the inhabitants of the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico have decided to acceed to a statehood status, and will become the 51st State of the Union. President Perot has called Governor Pedro Rossello of the New Progressive Party to congratulate him. The President has campaigned massively in the island for the statehood status, promising that it would acquire officially its status, to be part of the Electoral College and Congress, for the year 2000 at least… Let’s proceed with our special envoy in San Juan… »
    -CNN, November, 18 1993

    WHITEWATER SCANDAL : GOV. CLINTON AND LT. GOV. HUNT ASKED TO EXPLAIN THEMSELVES
    -Arkansas-Democrat Gazette, December, 9 1993

    KREMLIN ACCORDS SIGNED BY PEROT AND YELSTIN: MUTUAL DETARGETING OF RUSSIA AND UNITED STATES
    -Washington Post, January, 14 1994

    « We can already project the results for Puerto Rico, the newest state in the Union : since its accession to statehood in 2000, the island has remained a Freedom Party stronghold, as some sort of homage to former President Perot who campaigned for Puerto Rico’ statehood back in 1993, and it’s not a surprise that its seven electoral votes go for the Freedom Party ticket. In the 5th District, Freedomite William Miranda Marin defeated freshman Democrat Pedro Pierluisi, while Representative for the First District Luis Fortuno has defeated incumbent Democrat Sila Maria Calderon for a Senate seat, making a Freedom Party pick. State representative Jennifer Gonzalez, also a Freedomite, has also won the election to become the next governor of Puerto Rico, at 32, and will become the youngest female governor in the United States. Now back in mainland United States… »
    -CNN, Election Night coverage, November, 4 2008


    ---


    PS: My connexion problems continue, still unable to upload pictures.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2011
  3. John Fredrick Parker Donor

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    Nice to see a bright spot in Puerto Rico (though I'm wondering -- if statehood wins in 93 means, they still wouldn't officially be so sanctioned until 2000?). Also, Vladimir Zhirinovsky's rise promises nice, grim things to come...
     
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  4. historybuff Well-Known Member

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    Ugh, the Liberal Democratic Party in Russia have some pretty whacky views, especially their leader. Cool for a 51st state.
     
  5. Cylon_Number_14 Nothing Unreal Exists

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    Yay for Puerto Rico! And I love that you covered in detail the search for Freedom party candidates. I always considered that to be one of the most important stories to be told in any Perot TL or any other with a successful third party bid.

    The Freedom party is quite the hodgepodge of moderates and radicals. I think its platform will evolve into something of being socially liberal (the only common thread of all the candidates mentioned) and economically "pragmatic" meaning not afraid to raise taxes to balance the budget while not being beholden to the special interests of the traditional Dem & Rep lobbyists, so they'd be willing to take "austerity measures" when necessary also. But maybe that's just my hopeless idealism and ultimately they'd be beholden to their own lobbyists in time. :rolleyes:

    P.S. though he never admits it I'm pretty sure my dad voted for Perot in 1992. I could definitely imagine both my parents joining that party since they're socially liberal but more tight-fisted in their economic viewpoints.
     
  6. vultan Defying Gravity

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    Statehood for Puerto Rico, now. You think they'll lean Democrat or Freedom?
     
  7. DSS Foreign Minister

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    ...Good sir, I think you just made one of the best TLs ever. A thousand cookies for you, for making Stephen Colbert a U.S. Senator, and much, much more.

    I'm serious, too, this will be very epic.:D
     
  8. RamscoopRaider Some Sort of Were-Orca, probably an Akhlut Donor

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    Puerto Rico is going to lean freedom, the story says it right out

    Excellent work, glad to see the updates coming apace
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2011
  9. Vosem Well-Known Member

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    Ooh, Zhirinovsky will be fun. (I wonder if this butterflies my birth or leads to its being more likely than OTL...we'll see:D) Poland should be partitioned? Finland outright annexed? Having a "police state" (direct quote) be a campaign promise? Attacking the US for Alaska? Persona non grata in the Ukraine?

    Russia as the boogeyman is a little stereotypical (America's like...didn't we just go through this?), but I think its remarkable the son of a Russian and a lawyer hasn't gotten a TL yet.
     
  10. thekingsguard Founder of Korsgaardianism

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    Keep up the good work on this one man, it keeps shaping up into something cooler and cooler.
     
  11. Paul V McNutt Paul V McNutt Banned

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    Nov 20, 2007
    Freedom Party ,that brings back TL 191 memories.. ITTL Harry Turtledove has to think of another name for the CSA's Nazi Party
     
  12. MaskedPickle Well-Known Member

    « My opponents, in the left and in the right, have decried me for allegedly trying to weaken the Union by splitting the political forces that rule the country ; here is my answer to them : even if I had, during this first year, many occasions to have my platform passed thanks to intelligent and reasonable bipartisanship, I felt that I had to found a new party, that would embody our need of reforms, give a voice to those who are disatisfied with the current state of affairs and call into question the rules of these great United States of America. »
    -President Ross Perot’s First State of the Union Adress, January, 25 1994

    « President Perot’s leadership has failed, not because of a so-called obstructionnist Congress on which he blames everything, paving the way for a Republican takeover, but because he has no real experience on politics : by running on the single issue of the free trade agreement, he deliberately endangered American economy, and now, the President refuses to frankly commit the United States of America in the ongoing conflict in Bosnia, which kills more and more people as the days go by, and forces US troops overseas to engage in an unwinnable guerilla in Somalia. »
    -Democratic response to the State of the Union Address, delivered by Senator Tom Harkin (D-IA), January, 26 1994

    « Even I personally supported President Perot’s initiatives on balanced budget and national security, it’s an euphemism but to consider to his attempts at bipartisanship have failed. Not because of congressional process, but because of his behaviour, refusing to strike compromise with the different parties, reducing congressionnal staff in order to make extravagant spenditure on the Internet or other matters, giving up his campaign promises by putting in place a ludicrous policy of guns control that would only infuriate the people of the United States of America by denying them their most sacred right… And now, President Perot tries to conceal his failures by putting in place a third party without any consistency. He must submit or quit. »
    - Republican response to the State of the Union Address, delivered by Senate Minority Leader Bob Dole (R-KS), January, 26 1994

    NATO AUTHORIZED TO LAUNCH AIR STRIKES ON HOSTILE ARTILLERY AROUND SARAJEVO
    -New York Times, February, 9 1994

    WINTER OLYMPIC GAMES OPEN IN LILLEHAMMER, NORWAY
    -Washington Post, February, 12 1994

    To say that the President wasn’t interested with what was going in Bosnia is a bit harsh ; to say that he was reluctant is far better. Even with all his meetings with Secretary of State Kirkpatrick, President Perot couldn’t understand anything at the situation in Bosnia, barely seeing it as a religious war between catholics, orthodoxes and muslims, even more complicated by the ethnic links. By the way, the failure of the Vance-Owen Plan back in 1993 had convinced him that nothing could be done to broker peace in the area. When the Markele massacre raised world concern about the siege of Sarajevo, he authorized NATO forces to open fire on Serbian positions, the ones that threatened the civilians, or to enforce the no-fly zone ; but in spite of Secretary of Defense Powell’s pressure, he refused to commit himself frankly in former Yugoslavia and let the Europeans lead the negotiations. As such, he refused to hold the negotiations between Croatia and Bosnia in Washington.


    I once had a conversation with Mr. Vance, after the presidency : according to him, President Perot’s refusal to engage in Bosnia until the Srebenica Massacre happened was due to a simplistic view : he viewed Bosnians as dangerous to their Muslim faith that would eventually lead them to islamic terrorism, while he viewed Croatia as already a valuable economic ally for the European Union and remained soft on Serbia in order to not infuriate the Russians, with whom he was negotiating the START III treaties. I don’t know if Mr. Vance is right ; I was only the White House Counsel, not a diplomat.


    By the way, President Perot was attached to his old doctrine not to do everything at the same time : I worked extensively with him in order to soften the public outcry against the Guns Control Package, which still trigerred dozens of mass protests accross the country, and to convince the Supreme Court that these laws weren’t a violation of the Second Amendment. Also, all our foreign efforts were committed either to the disarmement process in Iraq, which had been very weakened by the bombing campaign in summer 1993, and in Somalia, where General Aidid’s troops had been surgically wiped out and were now retreating from Mogadishu. And the President was also pleased by the Lillehammer Olympic Games, personnally calling each gold medalist to congratulate him on behalf of the American people.
    -From The President’s Son-in-Law : Memoirs from Washington, by former White House Counsel Clay Mulford

    GENERAL AIDID’S CAR SHOT BY A TOMAHAWK MISSILE : CONFIRMED DEAD
    -Washington Post, March, 2 1994

    « With General Aidid’s dead, Mogadishu under joint UN and Somali governement control, I can tell you now : Mission accomplished ! »
    -Secretary of Defense Colin Powell in visit in Djibouti, March, 7 1994

    PEROT RECEIVES GENERAL AIDID’S SON AT THE WHITE HOUSE : « THIS MARINE IS READY TO HANDLE HIS BIRTHPLACE »
    -Washington Post, March, 9 1994

    VIENNA AGREEMENT : CEASEFIRE AND ALLIANCE BETWEEN CROATIA AND BOSNIA AGAINST SERBIA, FEDERATION OF BOSNIA AND HERZEGOVINA ESTABLISHED
    -CNN Breaking News, March, 18 1994

    « I believe in America. I voted Perot in 1992, but I came to regret it. Damn, he was the only politico to stand genuinely against gun control, and yet, he wanted to register all law-abiding citizens in this Internet thingie, and to issue a ban and a gun licence. What would we have needed to have a gun, according to the first version of the bill ? I read it in the newspapers : « Have a reasonable reason to have weapons ». Hell, when the Founding Fathers, in the middle of the War of Independance, proclaimed the « right to bear arms », wasn’t it reasonable ? When we were still under the threat of the reds, the foreigners or else, didn’t we had the right to fight for our lives ?


    My wife agreed with me. We couldn’t wait the government to disarm all people and then to thwart every attempt at voicing their own dissent, like they did in Ruby Ridge and Waco. So I went to see my brother John, who was already a member of the Michigan Militia, and I asked him to register us. Us, it means I, my wife and my two children, who were barely 11 and 8 at the time. I had received basic training, you see, but what I learnt while training in the Michigan fields, with these good fellas, was unforgivable. And each time, when he seated around the fire, we all agreed : something had to be done, before it was too late.


    What has happened after, I don’t regret it at all. »
    -Mark Korosten, from Grand Rapids, MI, quoted in Outrun my Gun-A Short History of the Militia Movement, Winner for Documentary Film Price at the 2004 Cannes Film Festival

    ALLIANCE OF PROGRESSIVES SCORES VICTORY IN ITALIAN GENERAL ELECTION, LOWEST TURNOUT IN TWENTY YEARS ; FORMER COMMUNIST ACHILLE OCCHETTO TO BECOME PRIME MINISTER
    -Washington Post, March, 27 1994

    « Even if President Perot admits, in his own words, that « he doesn’t like very much the communists », he hails Italy’s decision to turn the page of corruption and gangster politics, evidenced by the current trials of Bettino Craxi, Giulio Andreotti and Silvio Berlusconi, and will be happy to work with Prime Minister Occhetto in the future. »
    -Press Secretary James Squire, March, 28 1994

    UNITED NATIONS RELEASE PLAN FOR WITHDRAWAL FROM SOMALIA
    -The Guardian, March, 30 1994

    Each Fifth of April has a sharp taste for every Nirvana fan, as everybody knows it was, ten years ago, in 1994, the fateful date on which Kurt Cobain, the founder and singer of the legendary band, tried to take his own life, ultimately failing, but making the band enter into music history. The tenth anniversary of this terrible event gathered thousands of fans in Seattle, Washington, for a homage performance that featured plenty of musicians, famous or amateur, that were influenced by the grunge band. The notable appearences included Cobain’s wife Courtney Love, former Nirvana drummer Dave Grohl and most notably Nirvana co-founder and bassist Krist Novoselic, who since became a State Representative for Washington and the Freedom Party’s candidate for this year’s gubernatorial election ; Novoselic had the decency not to turn the event into a political rally… Or so it seems.


    As of Kurt Cobain, he has been locked for ten years in permament vegetative state and is treated in the University of Washington Medical Center. When he was discovered on April, 5 by electrician Gary Smith, he had already suffered extensive brain injury from his self-inflicted gunshot, and couldn’t be reanimated. Even if no photos have been displayed, Cobain is reported to have been awfully disfigured by his wound and still lies in coma, and is reported to be still conscious. Each year, there is a rumour according to which a neurologist will be able to use Cobain’s brain waves in order to record the new melodies he’s creating in his coma ; but it is unlikely that Kurt Cobain will ever awake, or at least, have all his mental capacities. If he were to awoke, however, the musical genius would be quite astonished to see today’s world, ten years after.
    -Spin, April 2004
     
  13. RamscoopRaider Some Sort of Were-Orca, probably an Akhlut Donor

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    Good work keep it up
     
  14. MaskedPickle Well-Known Member

    I'm sorry to Nirvana fans as I'm myself one, but I thought this cruel fate to Kurt Cobain was far more interesting than his survival. And it allows me to make a big wink to Novoselic's future ATL carrer.


    John Fredrik Parker - Well, I don't have a clue on the statehood process in the United States, but I think giving a territory all the needed infrastructures to fully enjoy his status, along with congressionnal procedures, would take a while.

    historybuff, Vosem - Well, if an agressive Russia seems rather cliché, let's say that a hostile China is, in turn, a future history trope! Russia, due to his utter instability in the 90s, has the most potential for going dystopian, and the Liberal Democratic Party, for utter awesomeness, is the closer that could be of a Russian Nazi Party, even if having Guennady Zyuganov winning is a bit more realistic, at least during the Yelstin era. But the Russian military malaise will have other consequences...

    Cylon_Number_14 - You, Sir, have perfectly understood the structure of the Freedom Party.

    vultan, Ramscoop Raider - It is all in the update!

    Dead Sea Squirrels - Thank you, my Lord, now I can take my distance from your TL, as yours didn't manage to go beyond the third party's foundation point.

    thekingsguard, Paul McNutt - Thanks a lot, and again, I didn't even thought of the Turtledove reference!
     
  15. historybuff Well-Known Member

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    Ugh, militia groups. As long as this doesn't turn into a distopia, I'll still read it.
     
  16. vultan Defying Gravity

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    Somewhere Only We Know
    Hey, when I was reading about Paul Tsongas for my TL, i read he approached Colin Powell in the 90s with the idea to form a fiscally conservative, socially liberal third party. Though it may not matter much, because he'll die of cancer soon, maybe he lends support to the Freedom Party ITTL?
     
  17. Redem Proud citizen of her majesty

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    Canada
    Well they did have the technology to get music from his comatose body however it turn its just song that are stuck in his head and most of it are 80's pop
     
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  18. Plumber جعل أميركا أكبر مرة أخرى

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    The only constructive criticism I can think of now is that Puerto Rico would most likely be a state by the end of the year. Certainly by 1996.
     
  19. nerdknight01 Helsman TCS Vengance.

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2010
    ¡ Hi ! ¡ INTERESTING TIMELINE !:cool:.

    A free tip, idea. In Dicember of 93 México was in some steps for a total collapse, meltdown:eek: because all the mexican banks don´t have money and resources for their clients:eek:, and more important, the mexican monetary reserves collapsed trying to salve the banks:(. In short, the american´s goverment fearing of what can happen in México, lend how to say, millons and millons of dollars to the mexican´s goverment, more or less 1,000,000,000 to 30,000,000 a freaking scary number don´t you think:eek:. Of the record;), that maybe was the worst economical crysis in México´s history, and the probabilities of some how to say, civil war, dictatorial goverment, goverment´s and social collapse were very but very strong, thanks to the american´s goverment lend México don´t it be having a freaking scary meltdown/collapse, and i wonder if Perot how to say, the brains or will to lend that money to México´s goverment;):eek::eek:.

    Peace:).
     
  20. TheBerlinguer New-school baby-eater

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    I was reading the last update, still confused since discovering that a name so seemingly harmless as "Liberal Democratic Party" could be applied to an organisation that is really a Russian Nazi Party, when something hit me in the gut: ACHILLE OCCHETTO PRIME MINISTER?

    OK, Berlusconi (and Craxi, may his soul never find peace...) was thrown in jail thanks to the heroic Butterfly Mobile Squad...

    OK, no Berlusconi almost guarantees a smashing victory for the Progressives in '94...

    OK, Occhetto was OTL candidate...

    But he is a total, utter and irrededeemable cipher!!
    While this TL is a little dystopic-oriented I think you've just created the worst political scenario for the Italian Second Republic I've ever seen: a "Red Whale" (i.e. a left-wing Christian Democracy, or "White Whale") without a serious political opposition (both North League and National Alliance are too small and without Mr. B a coalition is as plausible as a moose-mounted Operation Sealion) led by the definition of everything that was wrong in the old PCI ("The party is my life, the words of Marv...Mart...Marley...that guy are my Bible and the party bosses my guiding light...So what now that I'm the Boss?"). And I'm not sure Mediaset will be as healthy as OTL, being part of a scandal-hit Fininvest, so who knows what is going to happen to all those reality shows created only to distract the Italian public from interesting in poltics.

    Interesting times ahead for sure!

    That said, I like your TL very much and hope to see it continued to its natural end in present times!:D:cool: