A French Sudan?

GauchoBadger · Nov 25, 2017

Is it possible for the french, with a PoD after 1848 and before 1900, to acquire the Sudan region, and possibly an outlet to the Red Sea? I'm under the impression that they were not able to colonise Egypt due to Britain's vested interest in controlling communications with India, but i still think the french could get a hold of the lands south of Aswan.
What sort of PoD would be necessary for this?

Revachah · Nov 25, 2017

You'd have to go through Equatoria and not die through the Sudd then go through a part of Ethiopia Habesha couldn't get through until western weaponry and they struggled through that even.

funnyhat · Nov 25, 2017

FWIW, there actually was a French Sudan although it was what we now call Mali.

Grand Prince Paul II. · Nov 25, 2017

funnyhat said:
FWIW, there actually was a French Sudan although it was what we now call Mali.

Push it to the East.

Nik · Nov 25, 2017

IIRC, the French kept enough influence to begin dredging a canal through the Sudd. Got most of the way, then the workers were attacked by rebels, the big machinery damaged and/or abandoned. Seems they're going to have another try, as a lot of that Nile's water is lost to evaporation in the swamp. It is wanted for irrigation...

Young Lochinvar · Nov 26, 2017

Fashoda anyone? If you reverse the outcome of that incident, then France gets a stake in what is now South Sudan. Now in the long run, a reversal for the British in this could torpedo the prospects of the Entente for the upcoming WWI - so the question of whether the French would keep the Sudan for very long is another matter.

dmg86 · Nov 26, 2017

The possible problem with using Fashoda is that the French force was outnumbered, the french fleet wasn't ready and the french themselves were divided over Dryess issues.

GauchoBadger · May 12, 2018

Bump.

Could a Mahdist victory at Omdurman (1898) lead to a delayed and, thus, worse Fashoda Crisis?
If the French really do get the Sudan in one way or another, will they end up preying on Italian Eritrea, seeming as it's in the way between the Sudan and Djibouti?

Emperor-of-New-Zealand · May 12, 2018

GauchoBadger said:
Bump.

Could a Mahdist victory at Omdurman (1898) lead to a delayed and, thus, worse Fashoda Crisis?
If the French really do get the Sudan in one way or another, will they end up preying on Italian Eritrea, seeming as it's in the way between the Sudan and Djibouti?

I'd say it's more likely they make a play for Abyssinia - either an unequal treaty or some other similar arrangement (I wouldn't rule out conquest, though it really depends on what kind of nation France is at this point).

FillyofDelphi · May 12, 2018

Emperor-of-New-Zealand said:
I'd say it's more likely they make a play for Abyssinia - either an unequal treaty or some other similar arrangement (I wouldn't rule out conquest, though it really depends on what kind of nation France is at this point).

So soon after the Italians tried to pull off an unequal treaty on them via a difference in translation? I think Abyssinia is a bit more politically savy than that. France is likely going to have to impliment regime change in the Empire if they don't want to go through the trouble of directly conquering/incorperating it

Emperor-of-New-Zealand · May 12, 2018

FillyofDelphi said:
So soon after the Italians tried to pull off an unequal treaty on them via a difference in translation? I think Abyssinia is a bit more politically savy than that. France is likely going to have to impliment regime change in the Empire if they don't want to go through the trouble of directly conquering/incorperating it

That depends on the 'when'. If we're talking Fashoda, then you're right, Abyssinia likely would be less naive, but if we're talking earlier, then Abyssinia likely becomes just another target.

galileo-034 · May 12, 2018

In a scenario I had imagined over the Second Empire continuing without the war of 1870, France's colonial adventure wasn't interrupted for a decaded as it was IOTL. That means in my scenario an expansion of France in the Red Sea area with development of the Cheikh Said holding in Yemen (with protectorates over Asir and Sanaa following within the decade), but also an occupation of Erythrea beginning with the Munziger expedition, an OTL expedition initiated and to be led by Werner Munziger, Swiss explorer and consul of France in Abyssinia, which aborted because of the war.
From that point, I would see France eventually purchasing Egyptian rights to begin with, something not too hard with Egypt in deep trouble because of its debt issues. Then, with a foot in, France would be well positionned to intervene in Sudan during the Mahdist revolt, instead of leaving the job to the British alone.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_Munzinger