A fractured HRE (a map of a WI)

Part IIIc Row, row, row, your boat…

1097 AD –

(Early January) After months of negotiation Matilda reached a tentative deal with the great cities of Northern Italy. This charter will become known as the Ovatio Pactio (The lesser bargain or lesser contract) but is generally known as the City Charter. The Charter agreed to the following.

All cities that agreed to this charter:
Are exempted from their feudal obligations toward the feudatories on their territory
Allowed to establish trade fairs
Create a government to run their respective cities as the citizens of said cities see fit (Two slight amendments were added to this, the local bishop or their representative was to be represented in government if the bishop chose to do so, and an observer appointed by the King of Italy is allowed to be present at all official government meetings.) [This was important to get Pisa on board as it was a promise that Henry IV gave them in 1077 but was forced to withdraw to secure his freedom.]
Allowed to administer high justice (An amendment was added that allowed an accused person(s) to appeal to the King of Italy for clemency in the Court of Justice, in Pavia, if the accused is a citizen from a city different from the one administrating high justice, and that city has signed the Charter.)

In exchange for these rights the cities had to yield the following:
A set payment of gold/silver paid twice per year, in January and October (This set payment is different for each city and for some is just a lump sum for others it is a percentage.)
Agree to bring all issues between cities and their feudatories to the Court of Justice in Pavia.

In addition to the Charter several other agreements were handled. Matilda agreed to levy a uniform duty for those traveling across Canossa lands and provide safe passage for those travelers. Also the Court of Justice in Pavia was to be solely funded by House Canossa (much of it would actually be funded by Boniface from his Duchy of Lombardy since it was being built in his capital).

(Late February) Minor nobles throughout Northern Italy angered by Matilda’s agreement with the cities begin to plot against her.

(Early March) In an effort to not appear weak after his recent defeats Clement III launched an attack towards the city of Bologna from his stronghold in Ravenna. Clement’s forces successfully begin the siege of the city.

(Late March) Sensing an opportunity while the bulk of Clement’s forces are invested in the siege of Bologna Boniface decided to make a daring gamble. Gathering his army in Rimini Boniface marched north. That same day Boniface hired several Venetian ships that had docked in Rimini, loaded them with some of his men, and under the command of one of his trusted lieutenants set sail upon a critical mission. They, under the cloak of night, gained access to Ravenna’s harbor and opened the nearest gate allowing Boniface’s troops in (Historical documents say that they used tiny brass mirrors to signal to the ships during the day when they were ready for them to proceed into the harbor.). The cities defenders outnumbered and surprised were quickly subdued (many surrendered) only Clement’s personal guard gave up much of a fight.

With Clement secured, the city surrendered and his forces elsewhere melted away. Sinigaglia, Ancona, and Faenza within days of having heard Clement had been captured quickly disposed of the few diehards remaining and welcomed Boniface’s troops. Only Ferrara remained as a group of mercenaries, at the demise of Clement, had declared that their captain was now lord of the city. Godfrey, who had joined his brother in Ravenna, took a force north to rid Ferrara of these pests, but by the time he had arrived the citizens had risen up and at great cost cleansed their city of this false lord and his gang. (No direct documentation exists that corroborates a text written fifty years later that the people of Ferrara had risen up after it was rumored that these mercenaries had raped several nuns in a small church within the city. The actual reason is lost to history but the text previously mentioned is doubtful in that it is written after the Church reforms that heavily slant Clement III as being more an anti-Christ than and anti-pope. It also fails to take in account the time difference between when Clement III was captured and when the supposed actions of the mercenaries took place.)

(Early April) Guibert (Clement III) is taken to Rome to meet with Urban II.

(Late April) A broad but scattered rebellion of minor nobles began within the Canossa domains. Their main grievance is the effect the Charter had on them or the agreement to create a uniform duty which would be going solely to Canossa [and not them].

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Part IIId next week, same AH time, same AH channel. (As I have time of course.)
 
Shadow Knight said:
Gaahh!!! No wonder when I did a search for it all I could find was information on the island in the Bahamas (nice place btw), well chalk that up to not looking at the map close enough. :eek: ;)
LOL, a bit early for Bahamas. Rimini was founded as a Roman colony, controlling the Via Adriatica. It was always an important stronghold through the Middle Ages and the renaissance.



Shadow Knight said:
Oh one of them will be showing up in the not too far future. I didn't mention it yet, but the two Canossa boys (when it is said like that is sounds like something out of Dukes of Hazzard...just had this weird image of a orange car with a confederate flag on the hood tooling around a middle ages battlefield fleeing from some knights with the car horn playing Dixie... :D ) have a temporary papal dispensation relieving them of their crusading duty while they are dealing with the anti-pope Clement III. Who is in a relatively strong position in Italy and thus a threat that needs to be dealt with immediatly. This situation should not last too much longer though leaving plenty of time for one of our plucky heroes to make it in time for some Crusading action.

I did give some thought to having Matlida go herself, but she is dealing with the cities currently. Besides Urban II did not want women, children, etc. to go, but for some reason I could see him making an exception for her. ;)
The Dukes of Hazzard :) it's a funny one, but also quite a cool name for the two reckless brothers. I would anticipate that a sort of carolingian story cycle will spring out of these events, and maybe they might be handed over to posterity under this name.

The Papal Dispensation from crusading is a very good point; I had missed it.
Even better is the notion of Mathilda going crusading: Urban II would grant her the right, this is quite sure. And Mathilda has a history of fighting battles, in full armor. In 1197 she is fiftysh, but she should be still slim and strong (in particular in a TL where things go her way famously). Robert Curthose is in the Levant too, which again is a good reason for her to go.
It might be considered a bit corny (possibly too corny even for Hollywood), but I might envisage Mathilda sealing the negotiations with the Italian cities by a call to crusade, and vowing not to return until Jerusalem is Christian again. And Robert and Mathilda might meet again at the siege of Tripoli, when the Pisan navy, led by the countess, forces the entrance to the harbour while the duke of Normandy is among the first ones over the walls.... I'll leave it to you. Even cornier would be mathilda dieing at the taking of Jerusalem: now you'd have a Saint Mathilda in a whiff (and maybe even a completely different holy fighting order: Mathilda's maidens).

Liked the way you wrapped up both the cities issue and Clement's revolt.
The former is a neat solution to a problem that in OTL was never successfully dealt with. I'd suggest however that the great nobles get a cut of the cities revenues: another good way of ensuring their good behavior. Since both the cities and the great nobles are happy, there must be someone being shafted: the small nobles, and robber barons who are not in a position to negotiate a bargain. There will be a revolt for sure (and maybe one of the big families - the aleramo of Ivrea or the Montferrats - might be stupid enough to lead it). The succesful repression of the insurgents will have a couple of big beneficial results: the smaller fiefs will never become inheritary, the king will always appoint the new lord at the death of the old one; the standing army of the king of Italy [or better the standing army of the Comes Italicus, our good friend Bonface the reckless] will be stronger and better tried.

There are various possibilities to dispose of Clement III: I do believe that a public confession of his sins, in particular of the hideous sin in revolting against the Holy Pope, followed by his tonsuring and immuring in a monastery somewhere in the Appennins would be best. Church has naver taken kindly to the bloodily disposal of even the worst sinners among her priests.
 
LordKalvan said:
LOL, a bit early for Bahamas. Rimini was founded as a Roman colony, controlling the Via Adriatica. It was always an important stronghold through the Middle Ages and the renaissance.

Yeah I thought it was a bit funny when I first saw it and thought it said Bimini like the island, but I then thought well maybe they named the island after the city. But you were right upon closer inspection that B was actually an R (the map is a bit hard to read and the city's name was underlined making the R look like a B).

LordKalvan said:
The Dukes of Hazzard :) it's a funny one, but also quite a cool name for the two reckless brothers. I would anticipate that a sort of carolingian story cycle will spring out of these events, and maybe they might be handed over to posterity under this name.

Now if I could only get a Hazzard County somewhere in Italy.... :D

Maybe a French or italian Chaucer writing down some of the tales of the Canossa boys?

LordKalvan said:
The Papal Dispensation from crusading is a very good point; I had missed it.
Even better is the notion of Mathilda going crusading: Urban II would grant her the right, this is quite sure. And Mathilda has a history of fighting battles, in full armor. In 1197 she is fiftysh, but she should be still slim and strong (in particular in a TL where things go her way famously). Robert Curthose is in the Levant too, which again is a good reason for her to go.

You know I kind of tossed that out there off-handed but the more I think about it...the more I like it.

LordKalvan said:
It might be considered a bit corny (possibly too corny even for Hollywood), but I might envisage Mathilda sealing the negotiations with the Italian cities by a call to crusade, and vowing not to return until Jerusalem is Christian again. And Robert and Mathilda might meet again at the siege of Tripoli, when the Pisan navy, led by the countess, forces the entrance to the harbour while the duke of Normandy is among the first ones over the walls.... I'll leave it to you. Even cornier would be mathilda dieing at the taking of Jerusalem: now you'd have a Saint Mathilda in a whiff (and maybe even a completely different holy fighting order: Mathilda's maidens).

Is anything too corny for Hollywood? Seriously have you seen some of the crap they have put out over the years?

Some stuff to think about, but at the moment I a little bit stuck on how events are going to fall in Anatalia with Conrad and co. Less friction between them and the Byzantines as with a large contingent of Sicilian Normans is not present (Tancred brought some, most important are those who've had several years fighting muslims in the deserts of North Africa which is invaluable experience where they are going, also Alexius I hated Bohemund and actually allied with Raymond of Toulouse against him), and an actual king to keep some of the unruly nobles in line...Conrad has his work cut out for him. At the moment I'm leaning to seeing a Byzantine Antioch (the county of Edessa is still going down as OTL) anything after that the Crusaders could get off their oath by saying they are taking it from the Fatimids/Egyptians not the Turks. But in any respect the Seljuks are in for a rough time.

LordKalvan said:
Liked the way you wrapped up both the cities issue and Clement's revolt.
The former is a neat solution to a problem that in OTL was never successfully dealt with. I'd suggest however that the great nobles get a cut of the cities revenues: another good way of ensuring their good behavior. Since both the cities and the great nobles are happy, there must be someone being shafted: the small nobles, and robber barons who are not in a position to negotiate a bargain. There will be a revolt for sure (and maybe one of the big families - the aleramo of Ivrea or the Montferrats - might be stupid enough to lead it). The succesful repression of the insurgents will have a couple of big beneficial results: the smaller fiefs will never become inheritary, the king will always appoint the new lord at the death of the old one; the standing army of the king of Italy [or better the standing army of the Comes Italicus, our good friend Bonface the reckless] will be stronger and better tried.

Thanks. Good points on the greater nobles getting a cut. Montferrat...sounds like a villain's name to me, might I have found the boss Hogg to the Duke boys? :D

Your last point on the king appointing the new lord has just solidified my thoughts on where this TL might just end up, thanks! And yes for all practical purposes the standing army will be of the Comes Italicus, who dutifully serves his king (in this case who happens also to be his friend Conrad)

LordKalvan said:
There are various possibilities to dispose of Clement III: I do believe that a public confession of his sins, in particular of the hideous sin in revolting against the Holy Pope, followed by his tonsuring and immuring in a monastery somewhere in the Appennins would be best. Church has naver taken kindly to the bloodily disposal of even the worst sinners among her priests.

Well the public confession is good and the tonsuring and immuring (not sure exactly what they are but it sounds distasteful) are good too. I was think of a nice little recently created monastary in Sicilian/South Italian/Norman North Africa near the desert but if you think the Appennins would be better then that's cool.


Wow look at those views fly over 1200!
 
Shadow Knight said:
Now if I could only get a Hazzard County somewhere in Italy.... :D

Sorry, but no suitable name here. I was trying to imagine how a high-medieval chronicler might translate "Dukes of hazzard" in Church Latin, but I did not go beyond "Fortunae Duces".

Maybe a French or italian Chaucer writing down some of the tales of the Canossa boys?

Here you just have to take your pick: Boccaccio, if you want something down-to-earth, and a bit saucy: very Chaucerian (or maybe the other way around, lol: Chaucer was quite impressed by the Decameron); Dante if you want something epic, and more apt to be read aloud at court.

You know I kind of tossed that out there off-handed but the more I think about it...the more I like it.

Loved it from the first moment; and Mathilda would not have been able to resist either

Is anything too corny for Hollywood? Seriously have you seen some of the crap they have put out over the years?

:( I stand corrected: Hollywood can easily be cornier than anyone on earth. Look at the Kingdom of Heaven, just to be in the right place and time

Some stuff to think about, but at the moment I a little bit stuck on how events are going to fall in Anatalia with Conrad and co. Less friction between them and the Byzantines as with a large contingent of Sicilian Normans is not present (Tancred brought some, most important are those who've had several years fighting muslims in the deserts of North Africa which is invaluable experience where they are going, also Alexius I hated Bohemund and actually allied with Raymond of Toulouse against him), and an actual king to keep some of the unruly nobles in line...Conrad has his work cut out for him. At the moment I'm leaning to seeing a Byzantine Antioch (the county of Edessa is still going down as OTL) anything after that the Crusaders could get off their oath by saying they are taking it from the Fatimids/Egyptians not the Turks. But in any respect the Seljuks are in for a rough time.

Better relations between the Byzantines and the crusaders would be a true bonus (even if I believe that sooner or later relations will sour). Still your points are quite good: the presence of Conrad, to keep the unruly nobles under check, and the absence of a strong and much-disliked Norman contingent (as well as the early death of bohemund, another quite unsavory character).


Thanks. Good points on the greater nobles getting a cut. Montferrat...sounds like a villain's name to me, might I have found the boss Hogg to the Duke boys? :D
Might be the right guy (or guys). The Montferrat are quite rich and powerful (OTL, they sent a big contingent to the Crusades). I'll have a look

Your last point on the king appointing the new lord has just solidified my thoughts on where this TL might just end up, thanks! And yes for all practical purposes the standing army will be of the Comes Italicus, who dutifully serves his king (in this case who happens also to be his friend Conrad)



Well the public confession is good and the tonsuring and immuring (not sure exactly what they are but it sounds distasteful) are good too. I was think of a nice little recently created monastary in Sicilian/South Italian/Norman North Africa near the desert but if you think the Appennins would be better then that's cool.
Tonsuring is the baring of the pate, which is requested for all priests. Here I would imagine that, since Clement is banished to a monastery, they renew his tonsure to mark the start of a new life, as a benedictine novice. Immuring means literally "bricking him in", which might as well be done to Clement (the door of his cell might be walled up with bricks, leaving just a small opening for food and water). Or maybe Urban will be so kind as to put him just under a vow of silence. Whatever. IMHO, his "retirement" place will be on the Appennines, since Urban wants to keep an eye on him (and Roger Bursa might take advantage of having Clement under his control, if any difference of opinions arise in the future.

Wow look at those views fly over 1200!

Looking forward to see
 

Keenir

Banned
LordKalvan said:
The Papal Dispensation from crusading is a very good point; I had missed it.
Even better is the notion of Mathilda going crusading: Urban II would grant her the right, this is quite sure. And Mathilda has a history of fighting battles, in full armor. In 1197 she is fiftysh, but she should be still slim and strong (in particular in a TL where things go her way famously). Robert Curthose is in the Levant too, which again is a good reason for her to go.
It might be considered a bit corny (possibly too corny even for Hollywood), but I might envisage Mathilda sealing the negotiations with the Italian cities by a call to crusade, and vowing not to return until Jerusalem is Christian again. And Robert and Mathilda might meet again at the siege of Tripoli, when the Pisan navy, led by the countess, forces the entrance to the harbour while the duke of Normandy is among the first ones over the walls.... I'll leave it to you. Even cornier would be mathilda dieing at the taking of Jerusalem: now you'd have a Saint Mathilda in a whiff (and maybe even a completely different holy fighting order: Mathilda's maidens).

not sure how corny this is...

when Robert and Mathilda meet, they fall madly in love, and start producing their own dynasty.

:)
 
Keenir said:
not sure how corny this is...

when Robert and Mathilda meet, they fall madly in love, and start producing their own dynasty.

:)

Wow! A post not from me or LordKalvan...sweet.

Actually Keenir in this TL they are already married and have daughter, Constance. But if I got two people who think it is only midly corny then I got an idea of how it might just play out.

Thanks Keenir for posting, it is really nice to hear from people.
 
LordKalvan said:
Sorry, but no suitable name here. I was trying to imagine how a high-medieval chronicler might translate "Dukes of hazzard" in Church Latin, but I did not go beyond "Fortunae Duces".

Ah too bad, well I'll try to work it in somehow...

LordKalvan said:
Here you just have to take your pick: Boccaccio, if you want something down-to-earth, and a bit saucy: very Chaucerian (or maybe the other way around, lol: Chaucer was quite impressed by the Decameron); Dante if you want something epic, and more apt to be read aloud at court.

Hmm, maybe both. One a more farcical/comical tale while the other a more serious work. Kind of like the various works on King Arthur that have cropped up over the years.

LordKalvan said:
Loved it from the first moment; and Mathilda would not have been able to resist either

The more you keep pimping it the more I believe I'm going to write it in.

LordKalvan said:
Better relations between the Byzantines and the crusaders would be a true bonus (even if I believe that sooner or later relations will sour). Still your points are quite good: the presence of Conrad, to keep the unruly nobles under check, and the absence of a strong and much-disliked Norman contingent (as well as the early death of bohemund, another quite unsavory character).

Yes it should alleviate some problems but your quite correct they are going to have a falling out at some time. Having a clear superior [in rank], Conrad, is going to alleviate some issues for them but is probably going to complicate others too.

LordKalvan said:
Might be the right guy (or guys). The Montferrat are quite rich and powerful (OTL, they sent a big contingent to the Crusades). I'll have a look

Thanks I'd appreciate it.

LordKalvan said:
Tonsuring is the baring of the pate, which is requested for all priests. Here I would imagine that, since Clement is banished to a monastery, they renew his tonsure to mark the start of a new life, as a benedictine novice. Immuring means literally "bricking him in", which might as well be done to Clement (the door of his cell might be walled up with bricks, leaving just a small opening for food and water). Or maybe Urban will be so kind as to put him just under a vow of silence. Whatever. IMHO, his "retirement" place will be on the Appennines, since Urban wants to keep an eye on him (and Roger Bursa might take advantage of having Clement under his control, if any difference of opinions arise in the future.

Ah thanks for the explanation. Got a good monestary that would serve this purpose?
 
A thing I would like to butterfly away in TTL is the massacre of Jews and Moslems at the taking of Jerusalem.
Maybe this time the presence of Conrad and mathilda will keep the crusaders under better control (including Godfrey of Bouillon, who's a guy I never liked).

Ok, let's go for both epics: Dante will write in pristine verses, and Boccaccio will tell the counterpoint (which - remember Chaucer - is not just a saucy tale: Boccaccio had quite good insights, and was a keen observer and an outspoken critic of the people of his time). But Mathilda's epic will be the Gerusalemme Liberata (the Liberation of Jerusalem), in another 4 centuries.

Not found the time to look over the Montferrats: will try tomorrow.

A good (even if quite obvious) choice of where to keep Clement is the Benedictine abbey at Montecassino: close enough to Rome, fortified and the abbot is certainly a man chosen by the Pope.
 
LordKalvan said:
A thing I would like to butterfly away in TTL is the massacre of Jews and Moslems at the taking of Jerusalem.
Maybe this time the presence of Conrad and mathilda will keep the crusaders under better control (including Godfrey of Bouillon, who's a guy I never liked).

That's what I was thinking also, but armies of this era were not exactly the easiest to control (and after it isn't really until the modern era with better communications technology). Still the majority of it should not happen, sporatic killings will happen though, got to keep it plausible.

LordKalvan said:
Ok, let's go for both epics: Dante will write in pristine verses, and Boccaccio will tell the counterpoint (which - remember Chaucer - is not just a saucy tale: Boccaccio had quite good insights, and was a keen observer and an outspoken critic of the people of his time). But Mathilda's epic will be the Gerusalemme Liberata (the Liberation of Jerusalem), in another 4 centuries.

I can go with that.

LordKalvan said:
Not found the time to look over the Montferrats: will try tomorrow.

Sure when you get time...like the next part will get done when I get some time.

LordKalvan said:
A good (even if quite obvious) choice of where to keep Clement is the Benedictine abbey at Montecassino: close enough to Rome, fortified and the abbot is certainly a man chosen by the Pope.

Okay works with me, Montecassino it is.
 
Part IIId How to get a city to surrender in three easy steps…

(May) [Asia Minor] The Crusader army in Constantinople is shipped across the strait with Nicaea, current capital of the Seljuk Sultanate of Rum. A Byzantine army under Taticius also went with the Crusaders to be guides through Asia Minor (In addition other Byzantine armies were setting out to reclaim other territories in Asia Minor from the Seljuks.)

Within a week the Crusaders had placed the city under siege. Several days later the Turkish garrison of Nicaea sallied but was forced to withdraw with moderate losses. Weeks into the siege Seljuk forces attempted to supply the city via the Ascanian Lake but failed as a group of Saxon knights deployed there by Conrad foiled their attempt. The Turks were able to get some supplies when they evaded the Crusader patrols, but even this sporadic lifeline ended when Alexius I supplied the Crusaders with boats (brought overland).

This attempt was only the first as Kilij Arslan, leader of the Sultanate of Rum, returned from the war against the Danishmends in the east to combat the forces that had besieged his capital. Arslan fought a pitched battle with the Crusaders but was forced to withdraw after he took heavy casualties. (The Crusaders also took a relatively high number of casualties.)

[Italy] Guibert, formerly Clement III, publicly confesses his sins of revolting against the Church and the holy Pope, Urban II. He is then quietly and under heavy guard sent to the abbey of Monte Cassino. While there he was forced to tonsure and take a vow of silence. (There is some evidence that he was also immured within his cell in the abbey but it is unknown whether this was at Urban II’s orders or those of the abbot of Monte Cassino.)

With the last city, Ancona, having signed the Charter Matilda promptly declares to a surprised audience that she will not return until the holy city of Jerusalem is retaken from the infidels. No one was more surprised than her two sons, Boniface and Godfrey, who promptly were informed, that they were to “deal with these unruly jumped-up farmers who claim to be nobility” (the minor nobles currently at odds with her over the City Charter). Matilda proceeded to gather a fleet of Pisan and Genoese vessels, outfitted them with supplies and troops, and set sail to join the Crusading army on their way to Jerusalem. (It actually took Matilda until July to gather the needed men, supplies, and ships before she can left Italy. Pope Urban II is said to have loaned a genuine Saint’s relic to ‘guide her safely unto the holy city.”) As soon as she took her vow she wore nothing but simple clothes and the donned the red cross over her armor, the symbol of the Crusader.

(Mid-June) [Asia Minor] When it became apparent to the Turkish garrison that Kilij Arslan would not or could not return the Turkish garrison offered to surrender to Alexius I (a Byzantine delegation under the command of Manuel Boutoumites had quietly sailed over and negotiated their surrender). At first the Crusaders were angry when they woke up to find the city flying the Byzantine standard (no chance for loot) but Conrad, with a nodding Adhemar standing beside him, reminded them that it was the walls of Jerusalem not Nicaea that was what mattered. It also helped that Alexius I sent gifts but it left a bad taste in the mouths of some of the Crusaders. (Conrad was able to negotiate with Boutoumites, the new Duke of Nicaea, with an agreeable level access to the city for the Crusaders where he offered to pay for any damage done to the city from any unruly Crusaders. No historical documentation shows any major damage to the city from Crusader visitors beyond a few complaints of broken noses.)

Boniface and Godfrey began negotiating with the more powerful nobles to take a portion of the payment from the cities in an effort cutoff the rebellion from spreading any further. It will take months to come to an agreement with just a few of them and take many more to finish. However the flame of rebellion among the minor nobility still remained and grew stronger as a leader among them emerged.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry that is all that I had time for today, stupid work. :D

LordKalvan please tell me you got someone in mind for this mysterious leader among the minor noblility whether it is the Montferrats or somebody else I need your assistance on this one.
 
The Canossas were old enemies of the Aleramici family (descending from the first count Aleramo who in 967 was made marquis of Montferrat, of Corsica and Massa.
At the end of the 11th century, the Aleramic family had split in a number of dinasties, the most important of which were the marquesses of Montferrat (whose possessions included also most of the western ligurian coast, from Savona to Ventimiglia) and the marquesses of Massa and Corsica (who dominated the eastern Ligurian coast, and the appennine valleys at the border between Liguria and Tuscany; they still had extensive possessions in both Corsica and Sardinia, but the title of Marquis of Corsica was an empty one). The Marquis of Massa (Albert IV Rufus) had been a staunch ally of Henry IV, during his Italian wars, and strongly resented the progressive encroachment of the comuni (in particular Genoa and Pisa) on his possessions. The same thing was happening to the Western branch of the Aleramic family: the growing richness of Asti and Turin were strongly resented by the Marquis of Montferrat, Wilhelm II. As usual, the main root of what the historians will call the Revolt of the Barons had very practical if somehow base origins: the bishop of Luni was quite strong-headed, and refused to submit to Albert Rufus, handing him some fortresses and strong points controlling the broad Lunigiana valley (which connects the Thyrrenian coast to the Po plains). The bishop of Luni enjoyed the support of Pisa, and in the aftermath of the defeat of Henry and his capture, soon made all his claims good. The Aleramics were now starting to worry, and tried to mend the fences with the Canossas. However, when Mathilda negotiated the Lesser Bill of Rights with the free comuni they decided that the situation was beyond any possible mending: the upstart merchants had to be stopped, and the pretenses of the Canossas curbed. Negotiations started in earnest with the other major Italian families, but without great success: the Arduinic ruler was Adelaide of Savoy (countess of Aosta and marquise of Ivrea), who, although quite old was still a sharp cookie, and interested in maximising the revenues from the flow of merchandise to and from Bourgogne and Flanders; the Welf-Estes were satisfied by their gains in Veneto, and were not eager to start another war (it is said, however, that Henry IV was informed, and gave an informal blessing to the enterprise). Still, a much more positive answer was gained from the minor nobles, who resented both the growing Canossa power and the stricter rules of conduct they were compelled to follow.
Taking advantage of the chaos after the capture of Clement, and the need of the Canossa to garrison the newly taken cities, Albert Rufus put siege to the walled town of Luni, while the son and heir of the marquis of Montferrat, Ranieri, marshalled a strong army in front of the walls of Asti, demanding that the comune accepted again its feudal obligations to the Marquesses.
At the same time, a spatter of revolt plagued the Canossas lands: small barons closing up in their castels, plaguing the commerce routes, and refusing anything to do with "this unacceptable and sacrilegious defacement of the established social order".

So here you have your villain, Ranieri of the Montferrat Alerami. Probably he was not a genius, but OTL he managed to keep his possessions. Not sure what is going to happen here.
 
Awesome LordKalvan. For some reason I had an image in my mind with this guy wearing a large cap and having the classic evil villian long thin mustache. :D
Not going to be like that just the image I had.

I got some ideas but I need to look at some stuff tomorrow when I get some time at work.
 
Re. the taking of Jerusalem in the future, I agree that it will be not credible to butterfly away all the massacre. Still there is a difference between the blood-bath which happened in OTL and what might happen here.

Godfrey of Bouillon is family, btw. His mother Ida was a daughter of Godfrey the Bearded, and Godfrey the Hunchback was his uncle. Given the propensity to intermarriage in the family of the dukes of Lorraine, I am quite sure that he was also related to Mathilda's mother, Beatrice.

I think that the presence of both Conrad and Mathilda, backed by a strong contingent of knights and men-at-arms, would also result in having the Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem (Dagobert of Pisa - I swear it is a bloody village tale) succeeding in having Jerusalem given to the Pope (in OTL he almost succeeded, and here he's much more backing): so no kingdom of jerusalem here, and all the Crusader states subject to the feudal lordship of the Pope. As a side effect, I would expect the Knight orders to be much stronger here, and to become sooner or later the true army of the Pope. We've yet to see if this means also that they will be less lax than in OTL: if seen in the frame of a reforming church, this might also happen.
 
Going back to Italy, and to the reform of the Church.
I believe that the Pataria (a grass-root reformist movement, strongly opposed to simoniac and corrupt priests - and obviously supporting merchants and city freedoms against aristocracy) will be much more successful here. OTL, various popes supported the Patars (in particular in Milan) during the struggle with the HRE for the investiture of the bishops. However, in 1089 Urban II issued a bulla which declared that all sacraments administered by simoniac or corrupt priests were still valid: this was the death knell for Pataria, and soon its adherents were labelled as eretics, and persecuted. TTL, the situation is a bit different, and Urban still needs supporters in the new cities (and Clement is the symbol of corrupt and simoniac priests, so again there is an interest in keeping Pataria stronger). Mathilda was always interested in religious matters, and took a fancy to preachers full of flame and brimstone: the reality of politics and the need to find any ally against the empire first (and against the rebellious nobles later) should again work in favor of the Patars.
 
Shadow Knight said:
Awesome LordKalvan. For some reason I had an image in my mind with this guy wearing a large cap and having the classic evil villian long thin mustache. :D
Not going to be like that just the image I had.

I got some ideas but I need to look at some stuff tomorrow when I get some time at work.
Probably a full beard: we are still in the high Middle Ages here. But I was unable to find any picture.
I think that Adelaide of Susa (who is still alive, but no more regent for her grandchild at this stage) should be willing to help the Canossa in putting down the rebellion: the count of Savoy (or better, of Maurienne at this stage) have their eyes on both sides of the Alps: in Italy they want to expand their possessions toward the south (where the Alerami have their own Marquisate), in Lotharingia theyr are veeeery much interested in acquiring lands in Bourgogne (the wife of Ranieri is a daughter of the Count of Bougogne, btw; and when Henry came to Italy in 1077, he had to negotiate a passage through Savoy with Adelaide - who was his mother-in-law: the price was 5 bishoprics in Bourgogne).
 
LordKalvan said:
Re. the taking of Jerusalem in the future, I agree that it will be not credible to butterfly away all the massacre. Still there is a difference between the blood-bath which happened in OTL and what might happen here.

Godfrey of Bouillon is family, btw. His mother Ida was a daughter of Godfrey the Bearded, and Godfrey the Hunchback was his uncle. Given the propensity to intermarriage in the family of the dukes of Lorraine, I am quite sure that he was also related to Mathilda's mother, Beatrice.

I think that the presence of both Conrad and Mathilda, backed by a strong contingent of knights and men-at-arms, would also result in having the Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem (Dagobert of Pisa - I swear it is a bloody village tale) succeeding in having Jerusalem given to the Pope (in OTL he almost succeeded, and here he's much more backing): so no kingdom of jerusalem here, and all the Crusader states subject to the feudal lordship of the Pope. As a side effect, I would expect the Knight orders to be much stronger here, and to become sooner or later the true army of the Pope. We've yet to see if this means also that they will be less lax than in OTL: if seen in the frame of a reforming church, this might also happen.

Can I keep nothing from you...you ruined the surprise. :)

I agree on the Knight orders (Templars, Hospitalers, Teutonic Knights [I've got some plans for them.]) and have some ideas as to what their responsibilities will be, but if you've got any suggestions please offer them up.
 
Last edited:
LordKalvan said:
Going back to Italy, and to the reform of the Church.
I believe that the Pataria (a grass-root reformist movement, strongly opposed to simoniac and corrupt priests - and obviously supporting merchants and city freedoms against aristocracy) will be much more successful here. OTL, various popes supported the Patars (in particular in Milan) during the struggle with the HRE for the investiture of the bishops. However, in 1089 Urban II issued a bulla which declared that all sacraments administered by simoniac or corrupt priests were still valid: this was the death knell for Pataria, and soon its adherents were labelled as eretics, and persecuted. TTL, the situation is a bit different, and Urban still needs supporters in the new cities (and Clement is the symbol of corrupt and simoniac priests, so again there is an interest in keeping Pataria stronger). Mathilda was always interested in religious matters, and took a fancy to preachers full of flame and brimstone: the reality of politics and the need to find any ally against the empire first (and against the rebellious nobles later) should again work in favor of the Patars.

That's interesting, well I'm going to go with you on this and say he didn't issue that particular bulla, but do you think beyond all the condemning of simoniac priests would he have issued a bulla denouncing them and calling the heretics, etc. I would say no, at least not yet, for political reasons (no need to stir the angry hornets next).

Got some notable leaders of this group (Pataria) in mind that can be written in?
 
LordKalvan said:
Probably a full beard: we are still in the high Middle Ages here. But I was unable to find any picture.
I think that Adelaide of Susa (who is still alive, but no more regent for her grandchild at this stage) should be willing to help the Canossa in putting down the rebellion: the count of Savoy (or better, of Maurienne at this stage) have their eyes on both sides of the Alps: in Italy they want to expand their possessions toward the south (where the Alerami have their own Marquisate), in Lotharingia theyr are veeeery much interested in acquiring lands in Bourgogne (the wife of Ranieri is a daughter of the Count of Bougogne, btw; and when Henry came to Italy in 1077, he had to negotiate a passage through Savoy with Adelaide - who was his mother-in-law: the price was 5 bishoprics in Bourgogne).

So a whole lot of land is going to be changing hands then?
 
Part IIIe Water, water, my kingdom for water…

(Late June) [Asia Minor] As soon as enough supplies were gathered the Crusaders and a small Byzantine army under Taticius left Nicaea heading towards the city of Dorylaeum, under Seljuk control. Kilij Arslan planned a trap near the city but was unable to bring to battle when the small contingent of Norman knights from North Africa discovered the plot using tactics they had learned while fighting the Islamic nomads at home in North Africa. Kilij Arslan withdrew with only a minor skirmish. The city of Dorylaeum surrendered the Byzantine general Taticius.

As Arslan withdrew he destroyed crops and watering holes along the Crusaders intended route. Hundreds of men and horses died of thirst in the long hot Anatolian Summer.

[Italy] With resources stretched thin (Matilda gathering forces and supplies for her contribution to the Crusade, ships sending supplies and money to Robert Curthose’s forces in Anatolia, and the need to garrison the newly taken cities) Boniface and Godfrey found themselves not able to deal with all these petty ‘nobles’ quickly. The other great houses while bought off and content with the deals they had made, and sympathetic of course to House Canossa’s plight, were not about to get involved. The only exception was that of the Count of Savoy, at the urging of his grandmother Adelaide of Susa, who was willing to see the Aleramici south of the Alps punished (and a chance to expand their lands to both sides of the Alps). The Count began marshalling his forces to relieve the city of Asti.

A band of Pataria, staunch supporter of merchants and city freedoms (also against corrupt and simoniac priests) capture a minor noble near the city of Pistoja who tries to rebel against the Canossa’s. He and several of his retainers are sent in chains to Boniface who was in Florence at the time gathering support (the city had offered some of its levies to help suppress the rebellion).

(July) [Asia Minor] Kilij Arslan again attacked the Crusader army, this time near the city of Philomelium but is forced to withdraw towards Iconium as several bands of knights began to turn his flank and threatened his camp.

(Late July) [Asia Minor] Both Iconium and Philomelium surrendered to the Byzantine general Taticius. Elements of the Crusader army begin to grumble again at the Byzantines seeming to get all the rewards of the journey and they once again got nothing. Taticius sends food from the city but this seems to only inflame the men. (A famous line from the book Anatolian Sun, second in a series of books about the Crusade to liberate Jerusalem, “What are we beggars to be tossed a stale bit of crust [bread] or dogs to fight over a cracked bone?” details the feelings adequately of some of the Crusaders.) Conrad is able to smooth the ruffled feathers of the leaders, but admits in his letters to his wife that it was his belief that he was on borrowed time before something triggered a conflict between the Byzantines and the Crusaders.

(August) [Asia Minor] Near the town of Heraclea (under Seljuk control) the Crusader army came to a rest to gather supplies from the countryside before they continued on. Their plans were interrupted when Kilij Arslan tired of these foreign invaders once again attacked them. The battle lasted all day and into the night the battle drew to a close when a daring cavalry raid by a group of Italian knights made their way into Arslan’s camp. As Kilij attempted to remove these interlopers from pillaging his camp he was wounded. His son Kilij Arslan II took command and withdrew with what forces he could (the casualty estimates are in the thousands for the Seljuks and the Crusaders too took high casualties among the lesser armored foot troops.). (Military historians have studied this battle and determined that Kilij was on the verge of victory but the raid on his camp panicked some of his non-veteran troops. The armored Crusaders were difficult for the Seljuks to take down but the foot troops were more vulnerable to the hail of arrows unleashed by the Turkish horse archers of the Seljuk army which ripped wholes within the Crusader lines.)

When dawn broke the Crusaders were surprised to find that during the raid they had captured Arslan’s treasury (Finally loot!) which quieted the more hot tempered Crusaders angry at the Byzantines for denying them loot as it made them quite wealthy (for a while). With the defeat of Arslan I the Crusaders were no longer bothered, with the exception of the odd raid, as they continued on to pass through the Cilician Gates.

(Kilij Arslan I will die of his wounds several days after the battle leaving his son Kilij Arslan II as the new Sultan of Rum. As he withdrew north from Heraclea he received news that Byzantine forces were capturing territory throughout his realm, but with the mauling his father’s forces took outside Heraclea he did not have the strength to oppose them. However he did have the strength to continue his father’s gains against the Danishmends and other smaller tribes to the north of Mosul. He will go on to ally with the Atabeg of Mosul receiving much needed funds. Over the rest of his life he will vanquish many of these smaller tribes and establish his Sultanate at Nexeram (Nexeram once called Theodosiopolis. His forces would occasionally raid into Byzantine central Anatolia but as succeeding emperors continued to gain a firmer hold on the reclaimed territory and build fortifications it became difficult.)

[Italy] Matilda finally has gathered enough men and supplies and sets sail to join the Crusade.

(August) [Italy] The city of Luni (Luna) continued to hold out as its port brought in supplies from Genoese ships frustrating Albert Rufus in his attempt to bring the city to heel. Ranieri Alerami had better luck with his attack on Asti, but has yet failed to take the city (twice his forces have gained a section of wall but were forced off it as reinforcements arrived).

[Asia Minor] After passing through the Cilician Gates, Baldwin of Boulogne set off on his own towards the Armenian lands around the Euphrates. (He will go on to be adopted as heir by King Thoros, a Greek Orthodox ruler. Thoros was soon assassinated and Baldwin became the new ruler of the newly created County of Edessa, which included the cities of Edessa and Melitene. It will eventually dominate several other Armenian states but be at odd with the Byzantines for total control.)

(October) [Syria] The siege of Antioch begins. The Crusaders had barely enough men to complete the encirclement of the city but were encouraged by Taticius to gather supplies for a lengthy siege, however not many wanted to listen to him as food was plentiful and the need was not seen.

[Italy] The Count of Savoy’s troops finally arrived in Asti and relieved the city. Ranieri Alerami withdrew without battle but continued to gather forces and plotted to attempt again in the spring.

Godfrey finally eliminated the last of the rebellious minor nobles in his Duchy of Spoleto and moved to aid his brother in the more troublesome Tuscany.

(November) [Syria] Genoese and Pisan ships arrived at the port of St. Symeon with food and supplies. Enough supplies were accumulated to stave off the famine that was beginning to set in, but only barely. The Crusaders finally see the need to forage and send forth a party south to forage for supplies.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Part III continues, hopefully tomorrow, with the end of 1097 and the beginning of 1098 AD. Woohoo!
 
Top