A European colonial power founds a Chinese dynasty

Dorozhand

Banned
What if a colonial power in Europe decided to directly conquer and colonize regions of China (at the expense of a decaying and collapsing older dynasty), and justify it to the people by proclaiming a new Dynasty? It might be similar to the British in India, making the monarch "Emperor of India", or the Italians in Ethiopia.
Could this ever happen for any amount of time?

I'm picturing an 18th century European ruler with a powdered whig wearing yellow robes and taking an era name :D
 
What if a colonial power in Europe decided to directly conquer and colonize regions of China (at the expense of a decaying and collapsing older dynasty), and justify it to the people by proclaiming a new Dynasty? It might be similar to the British in India, making the monarch "Emperor of India", or the Italians in Ethiopia.
Could this ever happen for any amount of time?

I'm picturing an 18th century European ruler with a powdered whig wearing yellow robes and taking an era name :D
Not quite the same thing: the British never tried to pass their monarch off as Indian and the Italians didn't try to make their king seem Ethiopian.

If Europeans powers have the technology and ability to conquer China, they're probably strong enough to just take the title without bothering to retain the institutions.
 
Not quite the same thing: the British never tried to pass their monarch off as Indian and the Italians didn't try to make their king seem Ethiopian.

If Europeans powers have the technology and ability to conquer China, they're probably strong enough to just take the title without bothering to retain the institutions.

Agreed. It would have to be a European adventurer, or maybe a monarchy that conquers some part of China but then has to flee to China after a usurpation or revolt or something. Either way, without the large industrial base back home you'd have a reason for the ruler to try to placate Chinese elite opinion by intermarriage and proclaiming himself a Chinese emperor.
 
Agreed. It would have to be a European adventurer, or maybe a monarchy that conquers some part of China but then has to flee to China after a usurpation or revolt or something. Either way, without the large industrial base back home you'd have a reason for the ruler to try to placate Chinese elite opinion by intermarriage and proclaiming himself a Chinese emperor.

My natural instinct is to say that any adventurer who conquers an Asian state with no support from back home to rely upon, or a European monarch who is, again, fleeing to Asia with no support from back home to rely upon, is going to get deposed very quickly.
 
What if a colonial power in Europe decided to directly conquer and colonize regions of China (at the expense of a decaying and collapsing older dynasty), and justify it to the people by proclaiming a new Dynasty? It might be similar to the British in India, making the monarch "Emperor of India", or the Italians in Ethiopia.
Could this ever happen for any amount of time?

I'm picturing an 18th century European ruler with a powdered whig wearing yellow robes and taking an era name :D

conquerors of china always become china, no exceptions. :D
 
The only way I could see this happening is if a good sized, cohesive European group migrated into China ala the Manchus or Mongols.

I suppose you could have a situation where Russia collapses early on and a noble and a few thousand peasants and soldiers migrate to Manchuria and following a crisis/collapse in China move-in.
 
I suppose you could have a situation where Russia collapses early on and a noble and a few thousand peasants and soldiers migrate to Manchuria and following a crisis/collapse in China move-in.

Maybe in 1850, Russia would take whole of Manchuria. With Russian Government support millions of peasants move to Manchuria.
After collapse of Qing, Russians move aggressively to Northern China and control/puppetize it.
Russian Empire falls, and White Army retreat to Manchuria and Northern China. with some luck they would unite China and Russian Emperor/or Royal family member declares new Chinese Romanov Dynasty?
 
Maybe in 1850, Russia would take whole of Manchuria. With Russian Government support millions of peasants move to Manchuria.
After collapse of Qing, Russians move aggressively to Northern China and control/puppetize it.
Russian Empire falls, and White Army retreat to Manchuria and Northern China. with some luck they would unite China and Russian Emperor/or Royal family member declares new Chinese Romanov Dynasty?

I would love to see that as a TL
 
In a lot of ways, Chinese perceptions of Europeans seemed to regard them mostly as "Mongols from the sea", in the long history of foreign conquerors coming into China for pillaging and raiding for wealth.

I agree with others who say Russia seems like the most sensible choice, it's the only reliable provider of a significant amount of people that could form the basis of an embryonic ruling class. Not that this crowd would be all that Russian after a while, even if they refused to intermarry (plenty of the Manchus never mixed with the Han), they'd still have to embrace the trappings of Chinese civilization and preach the undying superiority of Confucian ideals and other fundamentals of Chinese culture. So Chinese Romanovs probably wouldn't cut it.

Institutionally I can't see them being too much different than the Manchus: they wouldn't be initially inclined to accept the various nomadic peoples, but they would have to in order to have allies against the Han majority.
 
Emperor Fredrick Townsend Ward (The Devil Soldier in China) or Emperor Charles Gordon (Chinese Gordon) or if you want a real distopia Emperor Henry Burgevine.
 
Emperor Fredrick Townsend Ward (The Devil Soldier in China) or Emperor Charles Gordon (Chinese Gordon) or if you want a real distopia Emperor Henry Burgevine.

Changing dynasties in late-period China is hard because it invites some pretty serious instability (and instability can lead to foreign interventions), the problem with people doing this in 19th century China is that not only would the Chinese system likely reject people who were implicitly associated with the foreigners in China, but the foreigners themselves would have no desire to have some upstart rocking the boat, and in all likelihood would act against such a usurpation of the Qing Dynasty.

The earlier something like this happens, the more likely it actually sticks.
 
Emperor Fredrick Townsend Ward (The Devil Soldier in China) or Emperor Charles Gordon (Chinese Gordon) or if you want a real distopia Emperor Henry Burgevine.
 
My natural instinct is to say that any adventurer who conquers an Asian state with no support from back home to rely upon, or a European monarch who is, again, fleeing to Asia with no support from back home to rely upon, is going to get deposed very quickly.

It doesn't need to be no support at all. He could have friendly relations with, or even be close to a puppet of, some European power, without necessarily feeling confident that he can pull on the full weight of the European nation to defend him. So he'd also make efforts to adapt native power structures.
 
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