A Dutch Victory in the Dutch-Portuguese War?

I'm curious, how could the Dutch have won the war against the Portuguese? The D-P War was mainly fought by the Dutch so that the Netherlands could establish an overseas empire and increase trade.

Now, the Dutch seemed to be more successful in Asia during the war, while the Portuguese fared better in the Americas. What must happen for the Dutch to win outright and establish colonies in the Americas and Africa? Apparently the Portuguese in the Americas were weak, one way the Dutch were beat was because of a joint Spanish-Portuguese force, which pretty much spelled doom.

What could happen to ensure a Dutch victory? And what would be some of the results? Would we see a Dutch-speaking country in South America?
 

HJ Tulp

Donor
Well I don't think you can call the Dutch-Portuguese War anything but a Dutch victory with the East Indian holdings falling to the Dutch. South America was very much a side show really. It was run by the WIC which wasn't nearly as powerful as the VOC and was more focussed on privateering anyway. However, the Dutch possesions in Brazil were run by a Oranje-Nassau so who knows, maybe this time the strings he pulled (and he pulled almost every string he could find) dispatch a force to help the Dutch holdings.

Oh and there is a Dutch speaking nation in South America: Suriname.
 
Well, the Dutch could win bigger as they did OTL, Which could mean that east Timor and some other islands in Indonesia end up in Dutch hands and perhaps Goa and other Portuguese trading posts in India. I don't think this will have large consequences for the netherlands, expcept the Dutch become slightly more rich.
More interestingly would be if Angola and/or Mozambique end up in Dutch hands. This could mean that the Dutch would have less interest in colonizing south Africa, which could end up in British or French hands.
Brazil (or at least part of it) could end up in Dutch hands. Maybe this would butterfly away the Dutch conquest of Guyana during the Anglo-Dutch wars, because the Dutch already have an important colony in South America, which could lead to a New Netherlands that remains in Dutch hands.
For Portugual it would mean less wealth, because of the loss of colonies.
 
Well I don't think you can call the Dutch-Portuguese War anything but a Dutch victory with the East Indian holdings falling to the Dutch. South America was very much a side show really. It was run by the WIC which wasn't nearly as powerful as the VOC and was more focussed on privateering anyway. However, the Dutch possesions in Brazil were run by a Oranje-Nassau so who knows, maybe this time the strings he pulled (and he pulled almost every string he could find) dispatch a force to help the Dutch holdings.

Oh and there is a Dutch speaking nation in South America: Suriname.

Oops! I totally forgot about Suriname! :eek:

I was thinking if Nieuw Holland (Dutch Brazil) somehow succeeded, how would that affect the rest of Brazil? At the time Brazil wasn't really strong, and if a country that was well financed and had a somewhat strong military force come in, there was little they could do.

I also read that the English periodically helped the Dutch during the war off and on. (Sadly, the only information I found on that was on wikipedia. I'd prefer to find it somewhere else where it goes into greater detail.) Could that somehow work in the Dutch favor? Perhaps pursuade greater British aid (perhaps militarily) in return for something (not sure what exactly, New Netherlands perhaps? Maybe a few islands in the Carribean that had lots of natural goods on them?). This could work as to make the Spanish a little more leary of sending troops. Would they be willing to fight another sea battle with the British? Then again, I'm not sure England would be willing to do that for a country it viewed as a rival. So this whole point may be moot.

Another potential way of preserving soldiers on the Dutch side is maybe not attempting to attack the city of Salvador, or at least right off. Johan Maurits, who was the Colonial Governor, decided to risk an attack on the city, which failed miserably. If Maurits could somehow wait for more manpower (not sure if that was even an option or not), he would have a better chance at capturing Salvador.
 
More interestingly would be if Angola and/or Mozambique end up in Dutch hands. This could mean that the Dutch would have less interest in colonizing south Africa, which could end up in British or French hands.

Perhaps, if somehow South Africa ends up French, a large portion of Huguenots could relocate there (in OTL, many Huguenots already did settle there). Although the French were very strict about Huguenot settlements, meaning where they couldn't go, which could mean most of those could end up settling in a potential Dutch Brazil state, seeing as they shared a similar religion, much like here with South Africa. If the French are lax with that law, I see a lot of Huguenots settling in either South Africa or Quebec. But that's a whole other story.

Another interesting bit, a massive Anglo-French war could be fought in a split South Africa, provided both countries claim territories there, and in North America (French-Indian War). It would be interesting to see how the Dutch would react to a French-English war in North America if they manage to hold onto New Netherlands.
 
While Portuguese presence was not strong in Africa, it was not weak in Brazil.
There were resistance movements from Portuguese settlers in the areas occupied by the Dutch (the Dutch controlled basically some parts of the coast). Those movements were invigorated by the restauration of Portugal's independence.
Brazil was already a settlement colony (or a group of colonies) and not a purely comercial colony, so Dutch advances are easier in Africa than in South America and easier still in Asia.
 
As Archangel said, the Portuguese presence in Brazil was strong. IOTL the Dutch only managed to conquer the Northeast due to the colaboration of some local guides, as Calabar. Actually, after the death of Calabar in Porto Calvo they didn't conquer any new territory.

The problem of Dutch Brazil was the lack of loyal settlers. The Dutch were basically traders and soldiers locked inside Recife and some forts, while all the countryside belonged to the Portuguese farmers. When the farmers decided that they were tired of the WIC they simply expelled them, without any help from Portugal (the Portuguese were too busy fighting their independence war against Spain to provide any important help). Even the reconquest of Angola by the Portuguese was done entirely by Brazilians, who wanted their source of slaves back.

Probably Angola could stay in Dutch hands if the Brazilians can't send troops there (maybe a stronger Dutch reaction during the war of reconquest of Pernambuco, or some attempt to invade Salvador or Rio?) and if the Portuguese manage to find other source of slaves to their South American colonies.
 
Get a more competent WIC? From what I've read, the WIC was completely lacking the discipline and organization of the VOC. While the VOC employed skilled men of trade (mostly) regardless of station and enforced strict rules regarding ethics and the like, the WIC was always out for a fast buck and courted nobles, etc. to get funding.
 
A stronger Dutch power in the America could have been realised if the first Anglo-Dutch war was ended with a different Treaty of Westminster, what if after the battle of Leghorn the Dutch government allowed the pressgang to strength the fleet so that the English were less motivated after two lost battles to continue the war. So the English accepted the peace proposal of the Dutch in February just before the battle of Portland.
 
Dutch Southern Afrika

Do you see a way in which ALL Southern African Portuguese possessions could end up in Dutch hands?

The Cape Colony, which really did, although it wasn't Portuguese before + Angola, which was held for quite a time + also Mozambique.

Portuguese presence was limited in all these areas, so it might not have taken more than a fortunate set of circumstances for the Dutch to triumph, just like they did in Indonesia. But would there have been enough political will & power to fight for these lands? Would it have made any sense in the given historical context to insist? I can't decide.
 
Do you see a way in which ALL Southern African Portuguese possessions could end up in Dutch hands?

The Cape Colony, which really did, although it wasn't Portuguese before + Angola, which was held for quite a time + also Mozambique.

Portuguese presence was limited in all these areas, so it might not have taken more than a fortunate set of circumstances for the Dutch to triumph, just like they did in Indonesia. But would there have been enough political will & power to fight for these lands? Would it have made any sense in the given historical context to insist? I can't decide.
I think that in theory the Dutch could capture and keep both Mozambique and Angola, but if they do I doubt the Dutch will found the Cape colony. They already have their halfway station between the Netherlands and Indonesia.
 
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