A divided Australia

Seldrin

Banned
This is going to be a timeline about an Australia that never fully federated, divergence is in 1899, but I figure that I'm not going to bother putting it in before 1900 for one year. Primary focus of this will be on WW2.
Please note that this is my first timeline so be gentle.

1899: The colony of New South Wales again fails to meet its needed target for a majority yes vote for federation.
South Australia and Western Australia pull out of the federal convention as participants due to lack of public support.
Samuel Griffith, the premier of Queensland, pulls out of the federal convention amid fears that he would lose the Kanaka labourers due to the white Australia policy.
The second Boer war begins, all Australian colonies send troops to South Africa.

1900: The Governments of Tasmania and Victoria begin collaborating a federation of their two colonies, New Zealand sits in as an observer.
Following the Anglo-German treaty, Queensland moves in on Papua New Guinea as the Germans increase their naval capacity
The Bubonic plague breaks out in Sydney

1901: The Boxer Rebellion comes to an end, following the signing of the Peking Protocal.
The Caste war comes to an end in Mexico, with a devastating loss at Chan Santa Cruz for the Mexicans. A truce is signed recognizing the Mayan Sovereignty over Eastern Yucatan.
Queen victoria dies at age 81
Edward VII become king

1902: Tasmania and Victoria hold a referendum that agrees to federalising the two colonies.
End of the second Boer war, recalled South and Western Australian troops are put to use establishing pipelines to inland settlements.
Women in Australia, except South Australia, are given the right to vote.

1903: First powered flight performed by Orville Wright.
Panama becomes indepndant from colombia, the panama canal area is given to the United States.

1904: Tasmania and Victoria formally federalise and become independant under the name of Victoria, Melbourne is declared the capital.
Russo-Japanese war begins.
The partition of North Australia:
The border of South Australia is lowered to 20 degrees South, Queensland and Western Australia border on the 125th meridian.
The entente is formed between France and the United Kingdom.
The Herero genocide takes place in German West Africa.


Anyways, that's all for now, tell me what you think.
 
The border of South Australia is lowered to 20 degrees South, Queensland and Western Australia border on the 125th meridian.
I take it you mean the 135th meridian - the 125th meridian cuts through WA. And by "lowered" you mean "shifted north".
 
Is this what you had in mind? Because that's a pretty damn big South Australia.

Unfederated Australia with partitioned NT v1.PNG
 
It's a very interesting idea, and one that doesn't get focused on nearly enough. I remember in What If?, by Stuart Macintyre and Sean Scalmer, the only real attempt at AH, there was only one Federation AH -- and that merely pushed Federation back 10 years. Compare that to a detailed, politically obsessive Dismissal TL, to go with all the other Dismissal TLs. (I got so bored writing mine that I decided to obliterate Newcastle from the earth. Originality in Australian AH is good.)

I don't mean to intimidate you, but DMA wrote a very good sketch along similar lines a few years ago, albeit with a much earlier POD. Unfortunately, I can't find it anywhere; dash and blast!
 

Seldrin

Banned
It's a very interesting idea, and one that doesn't get focused on nearly enough. I remember in What If?, by Stuart Macintyre and Sean Scalmer, the only real attempt at AH, there was only one Federation AH -- and that merely pushed Federation back 10 years. Compare that to a detailed, politically obsessive Dismissal TL, to go with all the other Dismissal TLs. (I got so bored writing mine that I decided to obliterate Newcastle from the earth. Originality in Australian AH is good.)

I don't mean to intimidate you, but DMA wrote a very good sketch along similar lines a few years ago, albeit with a much earlier POD. Unfortunately, I can't find it anywhere; dash and blast!

The legendary DMA did something like this?! However shall I go on with that great comparison to me.
But, nah seriously, I think that this should be...mildly different, to what anyone has come up with before, probably not as good as I imagine, but still good.
While I'm here, I just want to let you know that I plan to update daily, and Walker, if you're able could you PM me some stuff on New Zealand politics.
 
I take it you mean the 135th meridian - the 125th meridian cuts through WA. And by "lowered" you mean "shifted north".

Actually he does mean "lowered" as in "shifted south".

The Northern Territory in its entirety was administered by South Australia in OTL from 1863-1911. In this TL all of Northern Territory is still part of a South Australia that never federates with the rest of Australia, so South Australia would have a northern shore including the settlement of Darwin (established 1869). As to why Northern Territory is being partitioned instead of just being retained by South Australia....I have no idea. I would have thought "South Australia" (that would make for continuous humour wouldn't it, what with South Australia extending from south to north?) would have been keen to keep it.
 

Seldrin

Banned
Actually he does mean "lowered" as in "shifted south".

The Northern Territory in its entirety was administered by South Australia in OTL from 1863-1911. In this TL all of Northern Territory is still part of a South Australia that never federates with the rest of Australia, so South Australia would have a northern shore including the settlement of Darwin (established 1869). As to why Northern Territory is being partitioned instead of just being retained by South Australia....I have no idea. I would have thought "South Australia" (that would make for continuous humour wouldn't it, what with South Australia extending from south to north?) would have been keen to keep it.

I had intended to keep it as part of South Australia originally, but as said above, the Northern territory really is a dump, and I think that seperate governmental entities could make better use of it than what previous Australian governments have done.
 
Actually he does mean "lowered" as in "shifted south".

The Northern Territory in its entirety was administered by South Australia in OTL from 1863-1911.
Oh, yes, of course. For some reason I thought that NT was administered as separate to SA proper (like, as an external territory of the Province of South Australia) but apparently it was annexed outright.

(that would make for continuous humour wouldn't it, what with South Australia extending from south to north?)
Well, barely any Europeans lived in the northern part.

Maybe if Darwin etc. had grown suitably large they would've changed it to "Central Australia" or something eventually.
 

Seldrin

Banned
Finally, an update, as I said there won't be many major changes to the timeline until the second world war, but this is it so far, enjoy.

1905: A protest takes place in St. Petersburg, Russia, demanding better conditions for workers and universal sufferage laws to be introduced.
End of the Russo-Japanese war, with Japnese victory.
The first Moroccan Crisis takes place, The colonies of Australia, worried about the German influence in he pacific request to create the Royal Colonial Australian Navy, which is accepted.
Norway acheives independance from Sweden.
The Duma is Created in Russia.

1906: Queensland and New South Wales are granted the status of dominions, they still participate in the RCAN project.
South Australia passes womens sufferage laws.

1907: Korea becomes a protectorate of Japan.
The triple Entente is formed when Russia joins the alliance between Britain and France.
After much deliberation, New Zealand joins the dominion of Victoria, now formally known as the dominion of Victoria and New Zealand.
South and Western Australia are granted dominion status.


1908: The young Turk revolution begins in the Ottoman empire, in a response to the movement, the Ottoman Sultan reintroduces the constitution.
Bulgaria declares independance from the Ottoman Empire.
Austria-Hungary annexes both Bosnia and Herzegovina.
Tensions rise between Austria-Hungary and the Ottomans, a few border skirmishes occur.

1909: Korea is officially annexed by Japan.

1910:
Albania revolts against Ottoman rule.
The Union of South Africa is created.
Tensions continue to rise between the Ottoman empire and Austria-Hungary, both armies are mobilised.
Beginning of the Mexican Revolution, Eastern Yucatan unofficially declares war on Mexico.
The Victorian dollar is introduced.

1911: Eastern Yucatans "peacekeepers" have secured the Northern half of the Yucatan peninsula.

1912: Morocco becomes a french protectorate.
The First Balkan war begins between the Ottoman empire and the Balkan league.

1913: Acoup in the Ottoman empire causes a sort truce in the Balkan war,
fighting is later resumed.
The Balkan war ends with the treaty of London.

1914: Gavrilo Princip, a Serbian nationalist, assasinates Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria.
Austria-Hungary declares war on Serbia, beginning the first world war.
 
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After much deliberation, New Zealand joins the dominion of Victoria, now formally known as the dominion of Victoria and New Zealand.
Why? Why would they join Victoria, but not Australia?

The Victorian dollar is introduced.
The Victorian pound, surely? I mean, this is at the height of the British Empire and all, and I suspect that the naming of OTL's national currency as "the dollar" was greatly due to the whole "all the way with LBJ" mindset, which wouldn't be present here... (because there were other choices, like the "royal" and the "austral")
 
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Seldrin

Banned
Why? Why would they join Victoria, but not Australia?


The Victorian pound, surely? I mean, this is at the height of the British Empire and all, and I suspect that the naming of OTL's national currency as "the dollar" was greatly due to the whole "all the way with LBJ" mindset, which wouldn't be present here... (because there were other choices, like the "royal" and the "austral")

To start, they joined Victoria because Australia as a nation doesn't exist, it's a set of colonies except for Victoria. Victoria ITTL is booming in terms of economy and is far more relaxed when it comes to indigenous rights, which is why they joined Victoria instead of NSW or QLD for instance.

As for the Victorian dollar, that's just because it's a currency that I'm familiar with, you can call it whatever you like in your head, but I'm sticking with dollar because it symbolises the independance from the mother countrys pound. As for the Austral, it doesn't really work because it's not in distribution around the rest of the continent, it'd have to be called the Victral or something.
 
To start, they joined Victoria because Australia as a nation doesn't exist, it's a set of colonies except for Victoria. Victoria ITTL is booming in terms of economy and is far more relaxed when it comes to indigenous rights, which is why they joined Victoria instead of NSW or QLD for instance.

As for the Victorian dollar, that's just because it's a currency that I'm familiar with, you can call it whatever you like in your head, but I'm sticking with dollar because it symbolises the independance from the mother countrys pound. As for the Austral, it doesn't really work because it's not in distribution around the rest of the continent, it'd have to be called the Victral or something.
I think you misunderstood my questions.

In OTL, New Zealand was asked to join Australia but refused - and since your POD is 1899, this evidentally happened in TTL as well. My question was why New Zealand would choose to federate with Victoria a few years later when they had already refused to do so with all of Australia (with one of their main reasons being distance, which is just amplified when you're federating with a much smaller part of the Australian continent).

And my point about the "royal" and the "austral" was just that they were different names proposed for the Australian dollar in OTL in the 60s - that the name therefore wasn't necessarily going to be "dollar" (in fact, Menzies preferred "royal") - and the reason that the name "dollar" was chosen was because Australia had been growing distant from the UK and closer to the US. That isn't happening here - Victoria would still be very much attached to Britain, dominion status or no dominion status. And as it happens, there was an "Australian pound" in OTL from 1910 to 1966, introduced for the same reason as the "Victorian dollar" in TTL. From all this, it seems pretty clear that realistically, the currency of Victoria and New Zealand would be called the "Victorian pound".
 

Seldrin

Banned
I think you misunderstood my questions.

In OTL, New Zealand was asked to join Australia but refused - and since your POD is 1899, this evidentally happened in TTL as well. My question was why New Zealand would choose to federate with Victoria a few years later when they had already refused to do so with all of Australia (with one of their main reasons being distance, which is just amplified when you're federating with a much smaller part of the Australian continent).

And my point about the "royal" and the "austral" was just that they were different names proposed for the Australian dollar in OTL in the 60s - that the name therefore wasn't necessarily going to be "dollar" (in fact, Menzies preferred "royal") - and the reason that the name "dollar" was chosen was because Australia had been growing distant from the UK and closer to the US. That isn't happening here - Victoria would still be very much attached to Britain, dominion status or no dominion status. And as it happens, there was an "Australian pound" in OTL from 1910 to 1966, introduced for the same reason as the "Victorian dollar" in TTL. From all this, it seems pretty clear that realistically, the currency of Victoria and New Zealand would be called the "Victorian pound".


If you would recall in the first post, when the dominion of Victoria was founded between Tasmania and Victoria, New Zealand also attended but declined to join at that time. They're joining now though because certain conditions put forward have been met, I'll even name the conditions if you want.

As for the Victorian dollar, I already said that you can call it what you like, I understand that there is no real reason for it to be the dollar and not the pound but dollar is the one that I am most familiar with, so that's the one I wrote into the TL.
 
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