A different Three Way Cold War (NATO v. Soviet v. Fascists)

Okay, so NATO vs. Soviets vs. fascists isn't exactly a new idea. But what about this- instead of Nazi Germany holding on, what if WWII didn't involve Italy? For some reason Mussolini either makes peace or doesn't involve himself with the Axis. After the fall of Hitler, Italy forms a "Corporatist International" or some other name with a synonym for fascism. This ends up being an alliance of the Latin authoritarian regimes from Italy to Iberia to Argentina, all against both NATO and the USSR (but ultimately far less powerful than either). However, they continue to participate in influencing the rest of the world.

Is this a viable scenario?
 
I'll leave it up to more knowledgeable types to determine how ASB this is, but I really like that concept. However, with the number of independent "strongman" leaders out there all looking out for their own interests, would such an alliance be feasible for more than a few years? Also, as I can't see Italy as a superpower, how would you have such an alliance without the strong backing of a U.S.A. or U.S.S.R. equivalent?
 

The Vulture

Banned
MacCaulay and I were actually tossing that idea around a little while back, with Spain as the de facto leader of the Fascist bloc and a major weapons producer, regularly buying loyalty by undercutting the other two blocs on price of armament. The Fascist bloc was definitely the loosest and weakest of the three.

If I recall correctly, Spain's bloc in this scenario was Spain, Portugal, South Korea, Haiti, Nicaragua, Panama, South Africa, and Argentina.
 
It will essentially be a first-world and more expansionist equivalent to the Non-Aligned Movement. Which is to say they really don't have a superpower. Of course, I'm not sure what clerical fascist states and members they have besides the ones I mentioned and a few in Latin America.
 
Actually "Italy: 1936," adresses this scenario. Mussolini handles his foreign realtions more intelligently after the conquest of Ethipoia. No public alliance with Htler and trying to play the Axis and Alliess off during and before the War. Italy figfhts two "Parallel Wars" in the Balkans securing new territory and a sphere of influence while the other great powers are iccupied and uses Hitler to wring some "purchases" from Vichy with most of the onmey goping to Berlin.

Italy exists post war as more opf a renegade Great power and sets itself up as head of the Lira Block, allegedly neutral anticommunbists but mostly selling itself as an internatianl organization that is apasthetic to your internal affairs so loing as you are anticommunist and play by the few rules Rome sets.

There is a link in my signature.
 
Thanks for the link, I'll definitely check out your scenario.

MacCaulay and I were actually tossing that idea around a little while back, with Spain as the de facto leader of the Fascist bloc and a major weapons producer, regularly buying loyalty by undercutting the other two blocs on price of armament. The Fascist bloc was definitely the loosest and weakest of the three.

If I recall correctly, Spain's bloc in this scenario was Spain, Portugal, South Korea, Haiti, Nicaragua, Panama, South Africa, and Argentina.

South Africa definitely works, but Haiti? South Korea? East Asia will definitely be under the sway of the U.S. if the Pacific War happens as OTL, unless there's a Nationalist China in power.

I also have the wild idea of having Ireland be a proxy war battleground between the Fascists and NATO.
 

The Vulture

Banned
Rhee was one hell of a nationalist, and had to be kept on a tight leash to keep from invading NK. As for Haiti, Francois "Papa Doc" Duvalier was a rabid anti-communist and might be seen as a buffer state against Cuba.

The scenario is a little different, but I can link you to the thread if you like.You might be able to convert some of the ideas.

As for Ireland, maybe give Eoin O'Duffy some more followers and the Blueshirts become a more widespread movement? Just a thought.
 
Rhee was one hell of a nationalist, and had to be kept on a tight leash to keep from invading NK.

He also is in power because the United States Army backs him. If he defects to a rival power block, the American troops pull out, and North Korean tanks roll across the DMZ...
 

MacCaulay

Banned
He also is in power because the United States Army backs him. If he defects to a rival power block, the American troops pull out, and North Korean tanks roll across the DMZ...

Man...how long did it take to derail this thread?
 
Man...how long did it take to derail this thread?

I wasn't trying to...

Just saying that South Korea probably isn't a very good choice for a fascist bloc state, at least not for a while (if we get to the 70s, say, and the south can hold its own, things change...)
 
Okay, so NATO vs. Soviets vs. fascists isn't exactly a new idea. But what about this- instead of Nazi Germany holding on, what if WWII didn't involve Italy? For some reason Mussolini either makes peace or doesn't involve himself with the Axis. After the fall of Hitler, Italy forms a "Corporatist International" or some other name with a synonym for fascism. This ends up being an alliance of the Latin authoritarian regimes from Italy to Iberia to Argentina, all against both NATO and the USSR (but ultimately far less powerful than either). However, they continue to participate in influencing the rest of the world.

Is this a viable scenario?

Not impossible. The very nationalistic aspect of fascism makes it difficult to have any real "International" other than enlightened self-interest - "If you block the UN resolution against me and I will do the same for you". And that is both easy, useful and cheap.

My suggestion of a POD: some time after Ethiopia Mussolini (for once) listens to the experts and decides to keep away from Hitler and start searching for oil in the italian colonies. During WW2 oil is found in Libya, and Italy becomes far stronger (but is still not tier one and plagued with regional differences, low education level, non-realistic military etc).

After WW2 Spain and Portugal have an alternative to alliance with the US and allies (more or less formal) with Italy. It hurts NATO, but not so much. It will have som fairly huge effects on the early formation of the EU. Some Latin American countries may join after 1945 - but I doubt South Korea (wrong part of the world, religion and a dangerous neighbour). Haiti is possible - or South Africa. Both would be fun to see, but almost impossible.

Fascism / cooperativism / non-democracy is a realistic alterantive far longer than IOTL, but sooner or later the fairly clumsy dictatorships will fall. South Africa can't run apartheid much longer due to demography - but with Italian oil, spanish immigrants and blocking of UN trade sanctions they may survive some more years.

Decolonization in Africa will be far bloodier, if only that Italy hardly will let go of an oil-producing Libya. But both Spain and Portugal can't keep their colonies forever and probably destroy their fascist governments.

The history will mainly be as IOTL, but with some local big differencies (internal italian policy, the EU lacks 1/6 of its founding members - it must mean something).
 

DAMIENEVIL

Banned
both spain and portugal can keep their colonies forever if they do it properly and Italy might never lose ethiopia or libya and this might help both those places long term
 
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