A different Netherlands

JJohnson

Banned
For the sake of argument, let's say the United Kingdom of the Netherlands (OTL Netherlands and Belgium) survives to this day. What's the likelihood of keeping Suriname part of the country, similar to how New Caledonia is part of France, and elects representatives to the national parliament? How could that be brought about?
 
Honestly whether or not they keep Surname is probably one of the least important things that happens. A United Kingdom Of The Netherlands survivng is entirely capable of being a great power.
 
For the sake of argument, let's say the United Kingdom of the Netherlands (OTL Netherlands and Belgium) survives to this day. What's the likelihood of keeping Suriname part of the country, similar to how New Caledonia is part of France, and elects representatives to the national parliament? How could that be brought about?
OTL there already was a pretty big chance of Surinam remaining part of the Netherlands. Surinam was basicly forced into independence by the Dutch anti-colonial government. I doubt a majority of the people living in Surinam were pro-independence as more than 1/3 of the people living there moved to the Netherlands just before independence. I don't think it realy matters wether Belgian had remained Dutch or not. You just need a Dutch government that doesn't want to force the issue and Surinam is about as likely to become independent as the Dutch Antilles, who still are Dutch and in general want to remain Dutch (although Curacao might want to become independent, but we'll await the result of the possible referendum).

So Surinam remaining Dutch is actualy quite likely. The problem is Surinam electing representatives. Until very recently the Dutch Antilles did not chose any of the members of the Dutch parliament. They were part of the kingdom of the Netherlands, but not of the Netherlands itself. Basicly the kingdom of the Netherlands is a federation consisting out of the Netherlands, Aruba and currently Curacao and St Maarten (both Curacao and St Maarten were until recently part of the country of the Dutch Antilles together with Bonaire, St Eustatius and Saba). So neither Aruba, Curacao and St Maarten chooses members of the Dutch parliament. Bonaire, St Eustatius and Saba are now part of the Netherlands and actualy do vote for members in the Dutch parliament (although their vote barely matters as they have very few inhabitants).

So if you want Surinam to remain part of the Netherlands and be able vote for representatives in the Dutch parliament you need to change two things, avoid independence (relatively easy), avoid the current federal state of the Netherlands. The last part should be relatively easy, as you have a POD in the early 19th century and you need some changes to the Dutch constitution anyway to keep Belgium within the Netherlands.
 
A United Kingdom Of The Netherlands survivng is entirely capable of being a great power.
No it is not. Too few people. A united kingdom of the Netherlands can be a relatively important country, stronger than both the Netherlands and Belgium were. But a great power? No, not a chance. The time the Netherlands was a great power (perhaps even a super power) were over at the end of 18th century.
 
No it is not. Too few people. A united kingdom of the Netherlands can be a relatively important country, stronger than both the Netherlands and Belgium were. But a great power? No, not a chance. The time the Netherlands was a great power (perhaps even a super power) were over at the end of 18th century.

I have to agree here. The kingdom of the 'United' Netherlands might have played a part in the scramble for Africa and could have established a (or few) colony (/colonies) in Oceania. Still not in the same league as the UK and France; at best the kingdom of the United Netherlands is best of the rest.
 
A regional power the Netherlands can be most certainly, however it will be hard to maintain such a position.

Suriname remaining part of the Netherlands is also not all that hard as Pompejus pointed out, and preventing the federal structure from forming can be done too. Just cut up Suriname into provinces and a direct part of the Netherlands.
 
I have to agree here. The kingdom of the 'United' Netherlands might have played a part in the scramble for Africa and could have established a (or few) colony (/colonies) in Oceania. Still not in the same league as the UK and France; at best the kingdom of the United Netherlands is best of the rest.

Agreed, West Africa (Goldcoast) and Borneo, East Papua and Malaya are places the Dutch could easily expand too. Maybe even Southern China with a Dutch Hongkong Analogue. Anyone ever heard of King Willem II's letter to Japan? Japan could end up as Dutch protectocate.

Something I would also like to see is the British returning areas like West Guyana, the Cape Colony and Ceylon to the Dutch after Napoleon has been defeated. How likely is that?
 
Agreed, West Africa (Goldcoast) and Borneo, East Papua and Malaya are places the Dutch could easily expand too.
Yes, yes, yes and no. Malaya was British the moment the Dutch decided to swap Malacca for Bencoolen in the treaty of London.

Maybe even Southern China with a Dutch Hongkong Analogue. Anyone ever heard of King Willem II's letter to Japan? Japan could end up as Dutch protectocate.
Possible, but probably unlikely
Something I would also like to see is the British returning areas like West Guyana, the Cape Colony and Ceylon to the Dutch after Napoleon has been defeated. How likely is that?
I can't see this happening. Certainly not Ceylon, which had been British since 1796. In theory i could see a Dutch Cape Colony and Western Guyana after the Napoleonic Wars, but in that case the Napoleonic wars would been very different, with the Netherlands (the Batavian Republic or possibly, but unlikely the kingdom of Holland) as a British ally at some point. Or at least the batavian Republic becoming neutral in 1806 (something the French will not allow). So with a POD in 1815 the Cape Colony and British Guyana will remain British.
 
But they did return Indonesia and Suriname, which also both had been British since 1796. What were their motives for not returning all those others?
 
But they did return Indonesia and Suriname, which also both had been British since 1796. What were their motives for not returning all those others?
Actualy no. Neither Indonesia and Surinam (or western Guyana or the Cape Colony) had been British since 1796. They were returned to the Netherlands (the Batavian Republic) and occupied again in 1806 when Napoleon turned the Batavian republic into the kindom of Holland ruled by his brother. The British decided they could trust him and occupied the Dutch colonies again.

Ceylon was not part of it, because the Dutch have agreed to hand it over to the British earlier. The rest of the colonies were just occupied. They decided to return all colonies to the Netherlands in 1815 (including Dutch India, Dutch Ghana and Dutch Malaysia), with the exception of the Cape Colony, which was one of the most strategically located colonies in the world, because it made travel from Europe to Asia so much easier (at least until the creation of the Suez canal). As India was one of the most important British colonies they decided to keep it. Why they also kept Western Guyana I realy don't know.
 
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