A different Leyte Gulf

0832 17 October 1944

Nobutake Kondo was philosophical in the extreme about the plan as submitted. Never the less, he had never expected to be mounting the bridge of an Imperial Navy battleship operationally again either. Probably would not have been if Toyoda had been less than impressed by Kurita's lack of "offensive spirit".


Even as a battleship admiral, the American's huge superiority in aircraft would make this a nightmare. It was hoped that the resources husbanded for the "special attacks" would throw them off their game. Toyoda had been blunt in his assessment of what needed to be done and was clearly prepared to sacrifice most of the fleet to achieve it. He seemed convinced that the Americans would not be able to cope with heavy losses. If the Philippines, which clearly the attack must hit, were captured, then there would be no oil to operate the fleet anyway.

He was quite sanguine in regards to his own fate. The death of his beloved mother in an ironically small raid on Nagasaki in August had made him even more so.
The forces under his command were vast, it was true, even counting those forces the plan called to be detached under Shoji Nishimura.

As he looked across the bay at the vast bulk of Shinano, which had arrived only four days ago on the 13th, he gave thanks to the gods twice.
Firstly that Toyoda had duly kept his promise and provided whatever reinforcements that could be garnered, including most of 5th Fleet. Secondly, he had been able to use what little influence he had with the His Majesty due to their previous ties as his aide de camp to suggest that his friend Abe had not been retired and that together they had scuttled two ridiculous plans put forward by the aviation admirals, namely cutting down two battleships to hybrid carriers for low performance planes and secondly that he had her built as a battleship. Converting her would have required more resources than not.
 
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Japanese Order of Battle

Center Force
Yamato Class BB Yamato, Musashi, Shinano*(completed September 1944)
Nagato Class BB Nagato
Kongo Class BB Kongo, Haruna
Unryu Class CV Amagi(28 planes only)
Myoko Class CA Myoko, Nachi, Haguro, Ashigara
Takao Class CA Takao, Atago, Maya, Chokai
Mogami Class CA Kumano, Suzuya
Tone Class CA Tone, Chikuma
Ibuki Class CA Ibuki*(not converted completed September 1944)
Agano Class CL Yahagi, Noshiro, Sakawa*(completed August 1944)
Kuma Class CL Kiso
Atkizuke Class DD Akzikuke, Hatsuzuki, Shimotzuki, Wakatzuki, Yamazuki*, Urazuki*, Haratsuki*, Natsuzuki*
Yagumo Class DD Naganami, Fujinami, Okainami, Hamanami, Okinami, Kishinami, Agashimo, Hayashimo, Akishimo, Kiyoshimo
Shimakaze Class DD Shimikaze
Kagero Class DD Yukikaze, Urakaze, Isokaze, Hamakaze, Nowaki, Shiranui

Southern Force
Hyuga Class BB Ise, Hyuga
Fuso Class BB Fuso, Yamashiro
Mogami Class CA Mogami
Nagara Class CL Abukuma
Asashio Class DD Michishio, Yamagumo, Asagumo, Kasumi
Shiratsuyo Class DD Shigure
Hatsuharo Class DD Hatsushimo, Wakaba, Hatsuharu

Northern Force
Shokaku Class CV Zuikaku
Unryu Class CV Unryu, Katsuragi
Zuiho Class CV Zuiho
Chiyoda Class CVL Chitose, Chiyoda
144 planes only total
Oyodo Class CL Oyodo
Nagara Class CL Isuzu
Kuma Class CL Tama
Matsu Class DD Maki, Sugi, Kuwa, Kiri, Momo, Ume, Momi, Hinoki, Kaya, Kashi
 
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sharlin

Banned
Are we going to get a meeting of the 'World Wonders' and the Northern force, WW2's greatest naval battle that never was.
 

katchen

Banned
Nobutake Kondo was philosophical in the extreme about the plan as submitted. Never the less, he had never expected to be mounting the bridge of an Imperial Navy battleship operationally again either. Probably would not have been if Toyoda had been less than impressed by Kutita's lack of "offensive spirit".
Even as a battleship admiral, the American's huge superiority in aircraft would make this a nightmare. It was hoped that the resources husbanded for the "special attacks" would throw them off their game. Toyoda had been blunt in his assessment of what needed to be done and was clearly prepared to sacrifice most of the fleet to achieve it. He seemed convinced that the Americans would not be able to cope with heavy losses. If the Philippines, which clearly the attack must hit, were captured, then there would be no oil to operate the fleet anyway.
He was quite sanguine in regards to his own fate. The death of his beloved mother in an ironically small raid on Nagasaki in August had made him even more so.
The forces under his command were vast, it was true, even counting those forces the plan called to be detached under Shoji Nishimura.
As he looked across the bay at the vast bulk of Shinano, which had arrived only 4 days ago on the 13th, he gave thanks to the gods twice.
Firstly that Toyoda had duly kept his promise and provided whatever reinforcements that could be garnered, including most of 5th Fleet. Secondly, he had been able to use what little influence he had with the His Majesty due to their previous ties to suggest that his friend Abe had not been retired and that together they had scuttled two ridiculous plans put forward by the aviation admirals, namely cutting down two battleships to hybrid carriers for low performance planes and secondly that he had her built as a battleship. Converting her would have required more resources than not.
Is this the same Toyoda who founds Toyota Motorcar postwar?
 
Are we going to get a meeting of the 'World Wonders' and the Northern force, WW2's greatest naval battle that never was.

This is the general plan. Contrary to what may be thought, I am just keen to relook at it in the context of Toyoda's original plan, which envisaged the possible destruction of a great deal of the fleet in exchange for catastrophic losses on the Americans. Of course, he never had a clear picture of just how big a force he was facing. :rolleyes:

Of course, it does pre dispose that the Japanese do most things right and the Americans make the the same mistakes OTL;).
 

sharlin

Banned
This is the general plan. Contrary to what may be thought, I am just keen to relook at it in the context of Toyoda's original plan, which envisaged the possible destruction of a great deal of the fleet in exchange for catastrophic losses on the Americans. Of course, he never had a clear picture of just how big a force he was facing. :rolleyes:

Of course, it does pre dispose that the Japanese do most things right and the Americans make the the same mistakes OTL;).

Don't forget that on the day the IJN performed verrry badly, even their gunnery was terrible, adding more ships will mean more air attacks and would probably mean that the USN's fast battleships don't go chasing after empty carriers due to the surface threat.
Also the invasion fleet was far from un-defended. If the Northern force broke through the Taffy they would have still been under constant air attack from the other US forces (the other Taffy's they were operating well spread out) and land based air which the IJN was very poorly equipped to protect itself against (what with the Japanese AA guns being rubbish). The Invasion ships also had something in the region of 50 + destroyers and DE's guarding them and Admiral Oldendorf's ships were not that far away and could have made an intercept with the time they had if the IJN had stuck together and in formation rather than just going FFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUU at the invasion fleet like they did Taffy 2 and charging pel mel.
 
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1035 17th October 1944

Kondo was in his day cabin when his steward came with the telegram. "Activate Sho 1". From Toyoda. It contained the usual exhortations and wishes of success. Well, he thought, the die is cast. He had a duty to his family, his mother and his Emperor. Chances of success may be small, but surely there was some chance.

Air cover was the main issue. He could expect little from Amagi. She carried only 28 planes. All her pilots were very experienced being "dredged up" from the IJN Pilot training school normally based on Hosho but numbers were too small for them to be any more than a reconnaissance force really.

Putting aside the telegram, he read about the recent supplement to the air strength in the Philippines. The "Special Attack Unit" that was in training had been moved from Formosa to Manila last week. It contained 56 planes. That may be some sort of boost for the First Air Fleet. "First Air Fleet" seemed an amusing moniker to Kondo for a unit with 46 planes all up, 6 of those obsolete trainers.

Pulling on his coat and cap, he quickly climbed to the bridge of the Yamato and began giving the orders. The two Fubuki Class destroyers Akebono and Ushio used as harbour pickets were added to Center Force. Nishimura and Shima were called aboard for conference and a departure time was set. By tomorrow at noon the fleet would weigh anchor and depart Lingga Roads. A refueling stop would be required at Brunei Bay and then the forces would be split.

According to Toyoda, Ozawa would be leaving the Inland Sea on approximately the 20th.

It was all going according to plan so far. I wonder how long that will last he thought with a snort.
 
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Well I look forward to what you will be sharing. The POD seems sound. Just hope this does not turn out to be a total Americascrew. I am cool with Japan doing better but will not be happy if you have the USN wet themselves and cower.
 

sharlin

Banned
Well I look forward to what you will be sharing. The POD seems sound. Just hope this does not turn out to be a total Americascrew. I am cool with Japan doing better but will not be happy if you have the USN wet themselves and cower.

Quoted for truth. At this point the USN is at the height of its military power in WW2 and even if the IJN's battle line (or whats left of it) manages to get in amongst the transports, they will never make it out again.
 
Just read the update. I will wonder how well the carrier planes can do against the USN heavy fighter CAP. The movement of the Special group might turn out to be more effective than OTLs.

Keep the updates flowing please. :)
 
Quoted for truth. At this point the USN is at the height of its military power in WW2 and even if the IJN's battle line (or whats left of it) manages to get in amongst the transports, they will never make it out again.

I understand this. I know that even if Taffy 3 is completely destroyed it is but a small portion of the US forces. As most of the transports were pretty empty then they can scatter and run for it as needed.
 
Well I look forward to what you will be sharing. The POD seems sound. Just hope this does not turn out to be a total Americascrew. I am cool with Japan doing better but will not be happy if you have the USN wet themselves and cower.


Don't think that will be happening. As Sharlin pointed out, the IJN gunnery standard had declined to a fairly abysmal level by this stage of the war and in the newer(read brand new) units filled in many cases with crew that had never been to sea before can't see it being any better. Even with Halsey's stuff ups, there are many so many American forces. Of course, when talking about the core of Centre force(the 3 Yamato's) they are, at least, hard to sink. Maybe Lee will be able to fill in a different after action report in this.....
 

sharlin

Banned
Aye whilst the Japanese airmen had suffered horrific losses so their replacements were for the most part utterly lacking in experience with grossly truncated training pitting them in usually inferior aircraft against much better trained US pilots in generally superior aircraft. There's also things like radar directed gunnery which I don't think the IJN knew about at this time, they just knew it could be used for spotting, but not long range naval gunnery. All USN battleships were fitted with surface radars by this point. The Southern Force is still risks getting its T crossed by a superior force so I doubt the fugly's will accomplish more other than get brave IJN sailors killed in greater numbers.

I'm looking forwards to the updates :)
 
I will wonder if things really fubar for the US if Halsey might get freakishly bumbed off.

If so, who would be his successor?
 
1212 19 October 1944

Jisaburo Ozawa watched as the fleet made ready for departure from his flagship. He had no illusions in regards to all their fates. He was saddened by the thoughts of the sufferings of the men under his command that he was certain was to come. Hopefully something could be achieved in exchange for their sacrifice.


The fact that the fleet was a paper tiger was well known to him. It would look impressive steaming at sea, without doubt, which is what it's purpose was, after all. With only 144 aircraft between his 6 carriers they were woefully undermanned. Unfortunately 86 of those were A6M's. OK for fleet defense but not effective as an attacking forces. Only 88 pilots were qualified for deck landing, meaning that most of the attack wave he hoped to launch could not reland on the carriers and would have to carry on to land bases. There would only be one wave of attackers, although perhaps an initial wave of A6M's may distract the Americans before the second, real launch..

He watched the Ryuho and Kaiyo at the dock rapidly being prepared. They were slated for an air transport mission to carry aircraft to Formosa to replace those redeployed to the Philippines. 3 old Minekaze and Kamakaze Class destroyers had been rapidly assembled as a screen.

Even his escorts were not normally used as fleet destroyers, being built originally for escort command. Only the Oyodo, his flagship, was designed for fleet service. At least the formation had an impressive number of anti aircraft mounts fitted. They would need them, he was sure.
 
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0456 October 23 1944

It had been a fitful sleep for Kondo. Somewhat uselessly, he had been turning over in his own mind the wisdom of the option that he had chosen, as he had many times since splitting with Nishimura's Southern Force. Had he miscalculated using the Palawan Passage? It's shallow waters and lack of room to maneuver offered all that would be required for a submarine commander. Yet the other two possibilities were either unattractive or impossible.

The first option, sweeping out into the South China Sea and then East into Mindoro Straight would have been his preferred option, however, the lack of tankers and shortage of fuel in general made this non starter. The second option he had weighed up was using the Balabac Strait, then crossing the Sulu Sea. Much less dangerous from a submarine perspective, but within range of American and Australian air recon units based at Morotai. The element of surprise was, after all, paramount to this plan.

He could only trust the gods he had made the right decision. He had ordered anti submarine patrols to start at first light using aircraft from Amagi. Hopefully that should be enough. The fleet was spread in a five column cruising formation used for night steaming with destroyers on both flanks and in the middle row. Two picket destroyers patrolled ahead. He would be glad when they were out of such confined waters.

He duly finished the small snack that had been laid out, took a final sip of his tea and moved out of the cabin.

Kondo looked at his watch. 5.33am. He had just received a routine report from captain Yammamori that the Amagi had launched this morning's air patrol. The dawn was just breaking, the scene overwhelmingly peaceful as the battleship made a routine heel to port as part of her zig zag routine. He was woolgathering again about his choices when distracted by the sudden yells of his staff. Immediately obvious off the port bow was a huge column of flame emerging from the sea. The enemy had drawn first blood.
 
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0512 23 October 1944

Of all the scenarios that had played out in his mind during last nights on and off sleep, this ranked right up there. Hit by 5 torpedoes the Atago had gone down very rapidly, sinking at 0523. The ship had gone down so quickly it seemed a miracle that nearly 500 survivors had been rescued. As a consequence of the same attack the Takao was also hit badly, two hits on the stern blowing off the rudder and shearing two screws. Clearly crippled and unable to continue he had ordered her back to Brunei with the destroyer Naganami. After the initial attack and a turn away to port he had been hoping that it was perhaps only a destroyer that had been hit. The bitterness at seeing two huge columns of smoke from both ships was keen indeed.

He had then made possibly his second mistake for the day. Ordering an increase in speed to clear the danger area he had run straight into a second ambush in the confusion. The Ibuki would never see combat now. Yet another cruiser hit by five torpedo strikes, she had been hit at 0557 and gone down at 0603 in only 6 minutes. Again, surprisingly, over 600 men were rescued.

The seemingly successful prosecution of the attack against the submarine by the fleet's destroyers and planes from the Amagi had seemed like scant consolation. Also, the likelihood of the submarines in question sending sighting reports back to their own HQ had not passed him by.
 
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