JonesHenry
Banned
Could Japan have avoidet WW2?
While it is very unlikely, it is still an interesting question.
What makes Japans war so interesting is, that Japans war against China began already in 1937
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marco_Polo_Bridge_Incident
Contrary to popular pinion, the Japanese saw the axis with Germany and Italy being only of little value. It was more then anything else a siple formality.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripartite_Pact
Japanese leaders never even thought about getting involed in European wars. The so called "alliance" between Germany and Japan was a pure formality simply do to the heavy distances. WW2 in Europe started most of all because Hitler was mad and wanted one. Italy simply joined in for the spoils.
Japana assault against the Chinese began in 1937, and was in no co-ordination with Germany or Italy. Nor does the war seem to have begun as a result of any kind of a territorial dispute between the 2 countries.
There were disputes even among the Japanese top leaders on wheter taking over China was a good idea. It apears the combination of a weak emperor(Hirohito)and a weak Japanese PM(Tojo)played a big role in this catastrophy, wich caused Japan over a million troops while brining no worth while victory.
Neither men could or wanted to stop the army, once it had began it's unilateral offensive following the so called "marco polo bridge incident" and the shooting of a Japanese militant in Shanghai. Both the Japanese and the Chinese nationalist leaders had there reasons to try to avoid a total war. Chinas Chiang Kai-shek saw the ahnialation of the communist "threat" as a top priority, while the Japanese nationalist like Kani Ishiwara were afraid of the Soviets in the north(Mantsuria)and the Americans in the south(the Philipines)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Kai-shek
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanji_Ishiwara
Ironicly while both sides tried to avoid open war, it happened none the less.
Japans union with Germany and Italy was only in name, and most resources were deticated to the Chinese front. It took the American FDR 4-years to finally declare Japan on a trade embargo(as a result of Chinese requests) in 1941 Only at this point that the Japanese consider war with America. In otherwords, it was not the first and foremost objective of the Hirohito-Tojo administraison, as much as winning a war with China and submiting her.
This was a war of imperialism, where Japan in reality was the sole agressor, and it is very likely that the so called "Marco polo incident" was staged, in other words no Japanese soldiers were ever missing from there camps, and the Japanese naval officer shot dead in Shanghai was a radical agent trying to take over the city.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Shanghai
Japans war policy in Asia was mostly aimned an Chinese submission. War against America was an attempt to take over valuable resources from America and western countries in order to keep the war going, including cutting off the so called "Burmese road" to China. Japan also used heavily bioweapons in China and mass mudered millions of Chinese!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_516
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War
In Japan this war of genocide was officially called "Seisen" That is;holy war! But why?
Possibly the Japanese leadershing genuinely believed the war would only last a couple of months. Intead in went on for 8-years with no victory in sight. By the time Japan expandet the war against America it was already lost. Japan also had some confortations with the Soviet Union, but managed to stop them before they became a serious manner.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lake_Khasan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battles_of_Khalkhin_Gol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet–Japanese_Neutrality_Pact
Japans war against china was 1 of the biggest criminal enterprises in history, that finally lead to an epic defeat at the hands of the Americans. Japanese nationalist propaganda today continues to portrait America as the agressor.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7702374.stm
Guess there isn't much to say anymore, except that they REALLY RELALLY bad wanted to go to China, rape and take over the country. The so called "Showa restoration might have had something to do with it as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mukden_Incident
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_26_Incident
Thats all i really have to say about it. There were some even in the Japanese military like Kanji Ishiwara, who said Japan had been taken over by a bunch of criminals. Ishiwara was a top level Japanese military officer, so hes word carries some weight. There were also plenty of other people inside the Japanese society who were against the militarist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanji_Ishiwara
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=89034
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hara_Takashi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kijuro_Shidehara
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takuma_Dan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minobe_Tatsukichi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saitō_Takao
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takeo_Takagi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jigoro_Kano
Then i guess the question is, where did these fanatics come from, and how did they genuinly believe that they were going to get away with there plans? They practicly speaking handet out to FDR the war he wanted on a silver plater.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Pearl_Harbor
I suppose they really thought they could keep America out of the war somehow, and rap up the China campaign in a couple of months. When that all failed especially after midway they decidet to sacrifice the Japanese people in a massive suicide campaign to take away Americas will to fight. I bet they had never heared about the atom bombs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki
Talk about total fools! Well, Mcarthur said the Japanese were a nation of 12-year olds. Judging by that Americans(atleast of that time)had to around the mental age of 16, but the dufference is still pretty huge!
Is there any change in your mind Japan could have stayed away from the war in China, and if so, what would have happened if Japan would have went to war with both US&USSR along with the other axis allies? Would have the end result simply been the same?
While it is very unlikely, it is still an interesting question.
What makes Japans war so interesting is, that Japans war against China began already in 1937
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marco_Polo_Bridge_Incident
Contrary to popular pinion, the Japanese saw the axis with Germany and Italy being only of little value. It was more then anything else a siple formality.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripartite_Pact
Japanese leaders never even thought about getting involed in European wars. The so called "alliance" between Germany and Japan was a pure formality simply do to the heavy distances. WW2 in Europe started most of all because Hitler was mad and wanted one. Italy simply joined in for the spoils.
Japana assault against the Chinese began in 1937, and was in no co-ordination with Germany or Italy. Nor does the war seem to have begun as a result of any kind of a territorial dispute between the 2 countries.
There were disputes even among the Japanese top leaders on wheter taking over China was a good idea. It apears the combination of a weak emperor(Hirohito)and a weak Japanese PM(Tojo)played a big role in this catastrophy, wich caused Japan over a million troops while brining no worth while victory.
Neither men could or wanted to stop the army, once it had began it's unilateral offensive following the so called "marco polo bridge incident" and the shooting of a Japanese militant in Shanghai. Both the Japanese and the Chinese nationalist leaders had there reasons to try to avoid a total war. Chinas Chiang Kai-shek saw the ahnialation of the communist "threat" as a top priority, while the Japanese nationalist like Kani Ishiwara were afraid of the Soviets in the north(Mantsuria)and the Americans in the south(the Philipines)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Kai-shek
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanji_Ishiwara
Ironicly while both sides tried to avoid open war, it happened none the less.
Japans union with Germany and Italy was only in name, and most resources were deticated to the Chinese front. It took the American FDR 4-years to finally declare Japan on a trade embargo(as a result of Chinese requests) in 1941 Only at this point that the Japanese consider war with America. In otherwords, it was not the first and foremost objective of the Hirohito-Tojo administraison, as much as winning a war with China and submiting her.
This was a war of imperialism, where Japan in reality was the sole agressor, and it is very likely that the so called "Marco polo incident" was staged, in other words no Japanese soldiers were ever missing from there camps, and the Japanese naval officer shot dead in Shanghai was a radical agent trying to take over the city.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Shanghai
Japans war policy in Asia was mostly aimned an Chinese submission. War against America was an attempt to take over valuable resources from America and western countries in order to keep the war going, including cutting off the so called "Burmese road" to China. Japan also used heavily bioweapons in China and mass mudered millions of Chinese!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_516
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War
In Japan this war of genocide was officially called "Seisen" That is;holy war! But why?
Possibly the Japanese leadershing genuinely believed the war would only last a couple of months. Intead in went on for 8-years with no victory in sight. By the time Japan expandet the war against America it was already lost. Japan also had some confortations with the Soviet Union, but managed to stop them before they became a serious manner.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lake_Khasan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battles_of_Khalkhin_Gol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet–Japanese_Neutrality_Pact
Japans war against china was 1 of the biggest criminal enterprises in history, that finally lead to an epic defeat at the hands of the Americans. Japanese nationalist propaganda today continues to portrait America as the agressor.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7702374.stm
Guess there isn't much to say anymore, except that they REALLY RELALLY bad wanted to go to China, rape and take over the country. The so called "Showa restoration might have had something to do with it as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mukden_Incident
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_26_Incident
Thats all i really have to say about it. There were some even in the Japanese military like Kanji Ishiwara, who said Japan had been taken over by a bunch of criminals. Ishiwara was a top level Japanese military officer, so hes word carries some weight. There were also plenty of other people inside the Japanese society who were against the militarist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanji_Ishiwara
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=89034
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hara_Takashi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kijuro_Shidehara
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takuma_Dan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minobe_Tatsukichi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saitō_Takao
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takeo_Takagi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jigoro_Kano
Then i guess the question is, where did these fanatics come from, and how did they genuinly believe that they were going to get away with there plans? They practicly speaking handet out to FDR the war he wanted on a silver plater.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Pearl_Harbor
I suppose they really thought they could keep America out of the war somehow, and rap up the China campaign in a couple of months. When that all failed especially after midway they decidet to sacrifice the Japanese people in a massive suicide campaign to take away Americas will to fight. I bet they had never heared about the atom bombs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki
Talk about total fools! Well, Mcarthur said the Japanese were a nation of 12-year olds. Judging by that Americans(atleast of that time)had to around the mental age of 16, but the dufference is still pretty huge!
Is there any change in your mind Japan could have stayed away from the war in China, and if so, what would have happened if Japan would have went to war with both US&USSR along with the other axis allies? Would have the end result simply been the same?