A different Henry VI

A thing I've been pondering a lot recently is why was Henry VI of England so meek and timid? His father was by all accounts a great warrior king, and his grandfather was a interesting player as well. So why was Henry VI so meek and poor as a King at those times?

And, what if he had had a stronger constitution and ability? What if he was a smart man and commander?

How might this change things?
 
Child kings often make poor kings.Few actually turn out to be someone as good as Peter the Great or Louis XIV.This is mostly because the child kings were sheltered throughout the lives--much more than a king would have otherwise if they had to spend more than a decade of their lives under the previous King.
 
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Child kings often make poor kings.Few actually turn out to be someone as good as Peter the Great or Louis XVI.This is mostly because the child kings were sheltered throughout the lives--much more than a king would have otherwise if they had to spend more than a decade of their lives under the previous King.

Hmm true, let's say somehow that Henry VI ends up slightly more composed and strong than in OTL, what changes might this have brought?

Or alternatively, let's say that Henry V had married in the 1400s and this Alt Henry VI was born during the reign of his grandfather in say 1408, what changes might this bring?
 
Out of curiosity, let's say that Henry V married during the reign of his father in say 1406 or 1408, to either Isabella of Valois a marriage arranged to keep the peace, or to Catherine of Denmark to gain allies in the Kalmar Union.

Depending on whom he marries, his son also named Henry, would be born in 1407 or 1409, and as such would be a child when Agincourt happens, and close to maturity if born in 1407 when his father dies in 1422, and still a child if born in 1409.

So what consequences could this have?
 
Out of curiosity, let's say that Henry V married during the reign of his father in say 1406 or 1408, to either Isabella of Valois a marriage arranged to keep the peace, or to Catherine of Denmark to gain allies in the Kalmar Union.

Depending on whom he marries, his son also named Henry, would be born in 1407 or 1409, and as such would be a child when Agincourt happens, and close to maturity if born in 1407 when his father dies in 1422, and still a child if born in 1409.

So what consequences could this have?
Depends on whether the guy is competent.The downside of monarchy is that the next guy is always an uncertainty.Even if the next king isn't a child king,it's extremely difficult to get someone highly competent.
 
Depends on whether the guy is competent.The downside of monarchy is that the next guy is always an uncertainty.Even if the next king isn't a child king,it's extremely difficult to get someone highly competent.

Hmm true, though with politicians, they're all arseholes, at least the monarch knows that if the country goes down the shitter, so do they.

But yes, let's say this Henry VI is reasonably competent, he can fight, but he prefers using his mind to out and out gunning for it. What happens?
 
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Henry VI

I have to say, that even with his problems, that horrible Queen of his was no help at all!
 
I have to say, that even with his problems, that horrible Queen of his was no help at all!
Margaret of Anjou got scapegoated at least partially because Henry was such a non-entity, and attacking the foreign Queen makes better propaganda than attacking the anointed king. A more competent Henry means she probably fades more into the background, and uses her talents (which she certainly had) in support of Henry. A scenario where England isn't in the process of losing all her French holdings also probably helps. And of course, if Henry is doing his marital duties more regularly, that presumably means more kids, and sooner, so the issue of the succession never arises, and Edward of Westminster isn't tainted by rumors of bastardry.

As for Henry VI, it's not sufficient, but getting rid of the hereditary insanity would also probably help.
 
Margaret of Anjou got scapegoated at least partially because Henry was such a non-entity, and attacking the foreign Queen makes better propaganda than attacking the anointed king. A more competent Henry means she probably fades more into the background, and uses her talents (which she certainly had) in support of Henry. A scenario where England isn't in the process of losing all her French holdings also probably helps. And of course, if Henry is doing his marital duties more regularly, that presumably means more kids, and sooner, so the issue of the succession never arises, and Edward of Westminster isn't tainted by rumors of bastardry.

As for Henry VI, it's not sufficient, but getting rid of the hereditary insanity would also probably help.

Okay interesting, so would you rather see a timeline where Henry VI is slightly more sane and more capable and is born in 1421, or would you rather see an older version of him?
 
Considering what resourceful, resilient and dynamic men, his half-brothers were by Owen Tudor, it might have helped had the infant Henry VI been actually raised by their own mother, the Queen Mother Katherine at least in his formative years.

However; that little 'butterfly' could have kept the French princess for feeling too bored and isolated in the English court to the extent that she'd likely have given Mr. Tudor a firm snubbing rather than have conceived the Tudor Dynasty with him.
 
Considering what resourceful, resilient and dynamic men, his half-brothers were by Owen Tudor, it might have helped had the infant Henry VI been actually raised by their own mother, the Queen Mother Katherine at least in his formative years.

However; that little 'butterfly' could have kept the French princess for feeling too bored and isolated in the English court to the extent that she'd likely have given Mr. Tudor a firm snubbing rather than have conceived the Tudor Dynasty with him.

Interesting could that not have been Owens doing though?
 
Child kings often make poor kings.Few actually turn out to be someone as good as Peter the Great or Louis XIV.This is mostly because the child kings were sheltered throughout the lives--much more than a king would have otherwise if they had to spend more than a decade of their lives under the previous King.

Also, they didn't get to observe and learn from the experiences of their predecessor. They may have had a regent to guide them, but the regent also would be abruptly thrust into the position.
 
Okay interesting, so would you rather see a timeline where Henry VI is slightly more sane and more capable and is born in 1421, or would you rather see an older version of him?


Depends how many butterflies you want.

If Henry V has married earlier, then Henry VI may well have younger brothers, so that York will have no claim to be Protector even if the King still goes mad. Nor will Somerset be suspected of designs on the throne.
 
Aha tell me about it! Who might this Henry marry?

With 20/20 hindsight, the best choice would be a Portuguese Princess if any is available.

As a grandchild or great-grandchild of John of Gaunt. through his eldest daughter Philippa (full sister of Henry IV), this lady would have an arguable claim to be heiress to the English throne after Henry VI. So she might be accepted as Regent for him if he falls ill, and if the marriage is childless she might be able to remarry and get her new husband recognised as King.
 
Depends how many butterflies you want.

If Henry V has married earlier, then Henry VI may well have younger brothers, so that York will have no claim to be Protector even if the King still goes mad. Nor will Somerset be suspected of designs on the throne.

Hmm true I have been throwing around the idea of Henry v marrying Isabella of Valois

With 20/20 hindsight, the best choice would be a Portuguese Princess if any is available.

As a grandchild or great-grandchild of John of Gaunt. through his eldest daughter Philippa (full sister of Henry IV), this lady would have an arguable claim to be heiress to the English throne after Henry VI. So she might be accepted as Regent for him if he falls ill, and if the marriage is childless she might be able to remarry and get her new husband recognised as King.

Hmm interesting what would prompt such a marriage in world though
 
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