A Different German Confederation

German borders have always confused me before 1866, which I think was by design. But could there have been a different arrangement of German sovereignty in the Congress of Vienna?

Suppose that Prussia is dismantled or dismembered by Napoleon, leaving Prussian officers and nobility to flee to Russia, and Prussia itself disorganized and unable to greatly contribute later on. Napoleon rewards his clients in Saxony and sets up his Confederation of the Rhine more or less as OTL, but Saxony gains from Prussia's dismantling.

As Napoleon begins losing, Bavaria sees the writing on the wall and switches sides sufficiently early to secure gratitude and agreement from the relevant powers. Saxony is not so quick. Eventually, Napoleon is defeated through British power and money leading the way, though at heavier cost without Prussian support.

At the Vienna Congress, the containment of France and the balance of power is on everyone's mind, right behind gaining the most for themselves and their clients. A proposal emerges for a Germany led by several Kingdoms in place of the electors, with a degree of mediatisation.

The Kingdoms will incorporate the minor German states and Free Cities, with minor German soverigns retaining (most of) their lands and titles, and a large degree of autonomy, based on their rank. Grand Duchies retaining the most. The Free Cities that remain will be permitted to retain their autonomy in the Kingdoms, and be governed under a charter by their Sovereign; in effect making the Kings in question constitutional monarchs in the Free Cities they lead. The Kingdoms themselves will retain control over navies, navigable rivers, and all external relations--including peace, war, and the raising of armies. Formerly independent Duchies and above that remain are entitled to keep their own armies, but subject to Kingdom organization and overall command, in a manner similar to the relationship between the German Empire and Bavaria OTL. The Kingdoms shall also inherit the lands of any sovereign line within them that fails.

A Council of Kings is established in Frankfurt to coordinate the German Confederation, and enforce the agreements at Vienna, as well as ease the collection of customs, duties, and tolls within the Confederation. The Hapsburg "Emperor" is keeps that title as President of the Confederation, as "first among equals".

The Kingdoms are established as Prussia, Austria(With Bohemia in the Confederation as well), Bavaria, and Hanover. By virtue of possessions inside the Confederation, Denmark and the Netherlands(through Luxembourg) are also entitled to the rank.

Prussian weakness and attachment to Russia limits its gains, particularly as Vienna and London are unwilling to entertain a very close Russian client on the Rhine, but it does gain Saxony with Russian support. That support and Prussian dependency costs it Posen, which goes to Russia.

Some distrust of Bavaria means that Austria gains some of the Rhinelands, which is also supported by the British as it provides a tripwire for Austrian defense of Germany against France. Bavaria does gain much of the South, and parts of Thuringia. Hanover takes Oldenburg and Westphalia. (See map below)

Can this work at all? I presume that the German minors would not be able to resist this proposal if it was accepted by the Great Powers, much as they could not resist mediatisation. Is this even moderately stable, or will this confederation of royal federation fall apart under the strain of the first crisis?

I believe this map originally came from someone on the forum. Not everything has been edited for consistency, though the colors are about what I was suggesting.

Thoughts?
germanconfederationorga.png
 
Seems rather unfair on Wurttemburg (sp?) - what did they do to get treated so shabbily? When did the British princess marry the king btw?

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Can this work at all?

No, it won't, at least not as a confederation.
You removed most consistent supporter of the German Confederation as a political factor and replaced them with few independent, viable states.
The main problem is that the leadership of most of thiese states won't want more than a loose military alliance against France, not a political union or anything close.
 
No, it won't, at least not as a confederation.
You removed most consistent supporter of the German Confederation as a political factor and replaced them with few independent, viable states.
The main problem is that the leadership of most of thiese states won't want more than a loose military alliance against France, not a political union or anything close.

I fully agree with this.

To get a more stable, more powerful German confederation, I'd keep Prussia destroyed and would prefer smaller states - even OTL Bavaria is already quite big. That would mean that Austria is the one clear dominator.

Furthermore, I'd propose Austria keeping lands in the north - Luxemburg being possible, add to that parts of the Rhineland.

Next, keep out both the Netherlands and Denmark. This requires independent Schleswig-Holstein.

Finally, introduce economic unification from the start: common market, common currency, standardization of measures, common postal service, soon to be added by common railways.
 

yourworstnightmare

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1. Keep out foreign powers. Danmark to Ejderen could work (Schleswig completely annexed by Denmark, not in the German Con. + an independent Holstein.) Have Luxemburg independent or not in the German Confederation. Hannover is tricky as long as the Personal Union with the UK is there, but if Victoria get the British throne as OTL it will eventually break.

2. The German Confederation need one clear dominant power and then weaker powers who are in need of protection. This means powers like Bavaria and Hannover can't be allowed to be too large, since that would make them strong enough to resist being dominated. I would suggest Wurttemberg and Baden existing separate from Bavaria.

3. Prussia should probably be weakened, since otherwise she would resist Austrian dominance and try to rival Austria. What about an independent unified Saxony? (Still that might make Saxony a little bit too viable, and too hard to dominate).
 
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1. Keep out foreign powers. Have Luxemburg independent or not in the German Confederation.

Without the Orussian influence, it is very likely for Luxemburg to stay outside of the confederation. Luxemburg was as much part of the southern Netherlands as Hainaut or Flanders. It was a disagreement between the Netherlands and Prussia, who both wanted Luxemburg, that created the compromise of the Dutch-Luxemburg personal union, with Luxemburg part of the Confederation.

This might lead to a Belgian Luxemburg assuming the Belgian revolt isn't butterflied away (with possibly a complete Dutch Limburg as compensation for the Dutch).
 
Maybe something should be done about Prussia's western borders, as they had ceded a fair amount of land to Russia around the Napoleonic period. Maybe they could get it back or it would all go back to Poland. I will look on this with great interest.
 
A re-arrangement or restauration of German states after Napoleon more or less discribed as above will mean tht there is no German state which act as a leading nation, like Prusia, or counter weight against Habsburg dominance.
If the monarchs of these states are absorbed by a kind of power struggle between each other they some of them might lose more influence in their own state as result of this.

This could give the later Bundestag of Frankurt am Main a better chance which could ultimately result in a federation of constitutional monarchies during the course of the 19th lead by Liberals and at the end multi party democracies at the beginning of the 20th century.
 
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