A Different 1939

1929: (POD #1): Poland licenses Wright Cyclone engine.

1931: (POD #2) Noted Polish aircraft designer Zygmunt Pulawski does not die in a crash of his new plane the PZL 12. Instead, he suffers a near death experience during which he has a vision of a new airplane, an interceptor aircraft with wing slats and other innovations.

1932: The aircraft envisioned by Pulaski during his altered consciousness experience is ready on the drawing board. He pitches the project to his bosses, but they decline to pursue it because current at the time thinking that emphasizes the fighter-bomber concept. Due to lack of interest, he shelves the project.

1934: The Polish Air force orders a multi-role fighter-bomber. In an internal PZL competition a design of the engineer Franciszek Misztal won and was given the designation PZL.38 Wilk.

The power plant was to be 490-hp lightweight V-engine PZL Foka (seal), designed by Stanisław Nowkuński of Polish Skoda Works (then PZL WS-1).

(POD #3) Nowkuński does not die in Tatry mountains on 30 July 1936.

Problems with the Foka lead to the need to create a new engine. (Thanks to Tizoc): "Nowkuński builds Double Mors. Mors was a 9-cylinder radial equivalent of P&W Wasp Jr (with many features copied), so Double Mors would be similar to P&W Twin Wasp JR".

The news of the engine breakthrough reaches Pulawski, who shows Nowkunski his interceptor design. The engine designer is impressed and decides to use his knowledge from work on Foka to design a brand new engine for the Pulawski fighter.

1937: two prototypes of PZL.38 were built. One has the Double Mors engine while the other uses a Wright Cyclone development with 1000hp. The second plane shows more potential in therms of performance. But it becomes clear that the aircraft does not have the ability to carry enough bombs to work as a bomber.

A decision is made to turn it into a heavy fighter. The new version will carry four 7.92mm PWU wz.36 machine guns and two 20mm FK-A gun fitted under the fuselage. 500 are ordered and production of all other aircraft is cancelled.

1938: Intelligence reveals that Germany has a superb interceptor in the ME 109. There is worry that the heavy Wilk will not be able to match the Me 109. This leads to an order for an interceptor more in line with the Me 109. Fortunately, Pulawski already has a design and Nowkunski proposes a 12 cylinder 1200 hp liquid-cooled engine with nitrous oxide supercharger that allows the engine to obtain 1600hp. The Air Force is very impressed and orders 500 of the new fighters while reducing orders for the Wilk to 300.

The new interceptor is shown at the 1938 Paris Air show and causes a sensation. It's stunning engine performance sends shock waves in German aircraft industry.

1939: There are 300 PZL 38s ready.

The president of Czech republic makes a secret appeal to Poland, in the light of the superb aircraft, for help. Rydz Smnigly decides that perhaps there is a way to save Poland by saving the Czechs. He agrees to use the figthers to defend Czecs if Hitler attacks.

Hitler summons President Hácha to Berlin and during the early hours of 15 March, informing Hácha of the imminent German invasion. Threatening a Luftwaffe attack on Prague, Hitler hopes to make Hácha order the capitulation of the Czechoslovak army. But Hacha refuses.

Hitler carries out his threat and the Luftwaffe attacks Prague the next day. But instead of an easy walk, they are met by the Polish Air Force and suffer heavy loses. The Me 109 is shows to be inferior to the Polish airplanes. Enraged by the news that the Poles have decimated his Luftwaffe, Hitler suffers a stroke while in one of his rages. He dies the next day.


A power struggle ensues in Germany and war does not happen in 1939.

Please check new versions of the scenario below before commenting
 
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I 'm not sure if Polish industry had capability and money to built so many new planes in relatively short time. Even with those somewhat miraculous new designs.
Intercepting an air raid against Prague would not be so easy, since it would have required Poles to mantain permanent bases in Czechoslovakia. German bombers would need much less time to reach Prague than Polish fighters operating from Polish airfields. And keeping most of the new fighter in Czechoslovakia would leave Poland exposed, not to mention Germans would not be surprised by Polish intervention.
Forgive me, but this scenario seems much too optimistic to mee.
 
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Sorry, ASB.

1. Foka engine - it was planned to have it 450 HP, but OTL it only reached 300 HP. It was also hopelessly over-engineered. There's no way for that engine to reach 800 HP.

Counter-proposal: instead of Foka Nowkuński builds Double Mors. Mors was a 9-cylinder radial equivalent of P&W Wasp Jr (with many features copied), so Double Mors would be similiar to P&W Twin Wasp JR. That engine could reach 800 HP.

Counter-proposal 2: POD 1929 - instead of Bristol Jupiter license Poland gets a Wright Cyclone license. By 1937 you'll get a 1000 HP G-Series Cyclone.

2. You have a new fighter airplane project start in 1938. And in early 1939 it's in wide frontline service? No, just no. Consider this: First PZL-11 took flight in August 1931, and first production frames were delivered in 1934. 2,5 year later. Even with wildly optimistic PZL-50 timetable expected first production airframes to be built in late 1939, and this is with pre-production started before the first flight of the prototype! Notwithstanding that the whole development started in late 1936.

So it can be expected, in peacetime, for the first flight of the completely new airplane to take sth like 2 yrs after the start of the project, with first production frames starting to arrive in another year and 1 year more for wide frontline service. 4 years more-or-less. It can be probable a bit hastened if it would be a sort of kitchbatch of older type with added new parts, a'la Romanian IAR-80/81, but still it won't be less than 3 years.

3. IIRC, PZL couldn't produce more than 300-400 frames per year, of all types. And following pre-war Polish practice, half of them would end in training and reserve.

So, if you want a modern, low-wing monoplane with retractable undercarriage, fighter in Polish Airforce in widespread service by early 1939, you need to start no later than early 1935, methinks.
 
Scenario update 1

1929: (POD #1): Poland licenses Wright Cyclone engine.

1931: (POD #2) Noted Polish aircraft designer Zygmunt Pulawski does not die in a crash of his new plane the PZL 12. Instead, he suffers a near death experience during which he has a vision of a new airplane, an interceptor aircraft with wing slats and other innovations.

1932: The aircraft envisioned by Pulaski during his altered consciousness experience is ready on the drawing board. He pitches the project to his bosses, but they decline to pursue it because current at the time thinking that emphasizes the fighter-bomber concept. Due to lack of interest, he shelves the project.

1934: The Polish Air force orders a multi-role fighter-bomber. In an internal PZL competition a design of the engineer Franciszek Misztal won and was given the designation PZL.38 Wilk.

The power plant was to be 490-hp lightweight V-engine PZL Foka (seal), designed by Stanisław Nowkuński of Polish Skoda Works (then PZL WS-1).

(POD #3) Nowkuński does not die in Tatry mountains on 30 July 1936.

Problems with the Foka lead to the need to create a new engine. (Thanks to Tizoc): "Nowkuński builds Double Mors. Mors was a 9-cylinder radial equivalent of P&W Wasp Jr (with many features copied), so Double Mors would be similar to P&W Twin Wasp JR". The engine delivers 800hp.

1937: two prototypes of PZL.38 were built. One has the 800 hp Double Mors engine while the other uses the "Orca" engine, a Wright Cyclone development with 1000hp. The second plane shows more potential in therms of performance. But it becomes clear that the aircraft does not have the ability to carry enough bombs to work as a bomber.

A decision is made to turn it into a heavy fighter.The new fighter version will reduce the weight to minimum. The new lighter version the P.38M will carry four 7.92mm PWU wz.36 machine guns and two 20mm FK-A gun fitted under the fuselage. The tail gunner's position is eliminated and the large metal structure connecting the rear gunner position to the pilot's compartment eliminated in favor of a smaller canopy for the pilot.

500 are ordered and production of all other military aircraft is cancelled.

1938: Intelligence reveals that Germany has a superb interceptor in the ME 109. There is worry that the heavy Wilk will not be able to match the Me 109. This leads to an order for an interceptor more in line with the Me 109.

Fortunately, Pulawski already has a design and Nowkunski proposes a 12 cylinder 1200 hp liquid-cooled engine called the "Lewiatan" with nitrous oxide supercharger that allows the engine to obtain 1600hp bursts. The Air Force is very impressed but will green light the project only if the new engine can be produced.

As tension mounts, it is decided that the interceptor should be shelved in favor of a new version of the PZL P.38M, with the Lewiatan engines. This decision recognizes that war is close and aircraft production is switched to emergency mode to produce as many of the P.38Ms as possible.

1939: There are 300 PZL 38Ms with "Orca" engines ready before March. But the Lewiatan engine proves difficult to realize.

Assuming a kill ratio if favor of the PZL 38M vs. the Me 109, what does 300 planes do to the the Luftwaffe?
 
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Well this "Leviathan" engine will not be ready for production if development only starts in 1938.

If the development staff make it out alive, how might this affect foreign engine development?

Cosmonaut, I think you're right, but the question is, how much is Poland's fall delayed?
 
this pod is irrelevent

the germans only committed 4 gruppen of 109's to case white because they knew the polish air force wasn't a big threat, which means over 650 were in reserve in the wester and north (against a western air force not doing anything except leaflets) which can be added to the LW's otl order of battle as needed

the poles will suffer heavily from lack of early warning, they may have competitive fighters, but they won't be able to detect german bombers and intercept them before they reach their targets, so their airfields will be heavily bombed (by surprise) before being captured by rapidly advancing german tank columns

and btw in 1937 the me-109 wasn't that special of an aircraft, sure there were a few souped up ones that germany lended to some international races that set several piston engine speed records; but the ones rolling of the production line then and going to spain where equipped with jumo engines and thus were not all that fast or powerful in serial production

the lw in otl lost hundreds of aircraft over poland (mostly unescorted bombers) and the germans crippled them beyond any hope of recovery in 12 days and forced the country into submission in 5 weeks; 300 modern fighters would make no difference to this time table

the allies in france in 1940 had 3000 modernish aircraft; they could keep up with german operational tempo, sortie rates, and pilot experience
 

sharlin

Banned
Poland could not hold its own though. You'd need more tanks than the Poles had, aircraft can not help them hold ground against Panzers. They would need more AT weapons, more machine guns. When the Germans attack the Poles resisted bravely but short of devine intervention or a ASB deciding to ISOT the Polish army now to back then, they could not hold off the Germans, nor stand any realistic chance of defeating them. Doubly so when the Soviet union piled in.
 
Suppose they mobilize half their army after Hitler invades Czechoslovakia?

Also assume they have:

1) a better communication system,
2) 2x more of the superb Bofors anti-tank guns deployed in good positions.
2a) many of these guns are deployed around special bastion airfields near Warsaw, the PZL plant and giant stockpiles of material ( Maginot Line Pologne Petit--the project has been designed by French engineers) as well as around key central industrial region military factories, forming a large fortress area to the south with a life line to the Romanian border.
These bastions are protected by 100 foot thick, 200mm layered steel armor reinforced concrete firing positions. Each position has 300 Bofors guns with stockpiles to hold out for 90 days, 50 heavy artillery pieces.
2b) these forts are protected with heavy concentrations of minimum 25 batteries of AA guns.
2c) the concrete barriers are designed to channel explosions from 5,000lbs bombs in such a way as to minimize damage.
2d)There is a mined no mans land extending for five miles around these areas, complete with tank barriers, etc. One mile in, there are lines of one ton high explosive linked charges 350 feet long buried beneath the ground so that if enemy/ armor charges, these can be detonated in 350 feet long curtains. They are operated by wire remotely from the forts.
2e) There are in total 500,000 dug in troops around these bastions behind concrete tank barriers and under umbrella of 155 and 200mm+ heavy artillery and AA batteries.

The forts are designed in such a way that in order to get to the airfields of super fighters/ factories and repair facilities which are also there, Germans must go through the forts. Care has been taken to foster funneling attackers into kill zones into which all the guns can fire
Early mobilization means that they have these areas of defense manned and ready.
They also have 50 planes in the air 24/7 patrolling the sky. The rest of super planes are on alert, ready to be fueled and in the air in 25 minutes.

Finally, there are forts along the way to Romanian border along with 150, 000 dug in troops protecting a "life corridor" through which the French and latter the British are sending in ammo, food and fuel, copper, ball bearings, other industrial products and parts, volunteers, advisers, etc.

Yes this can give Poland a good change but where Poland find money and resource for all this, without going bankrupt?
Plus for making this scenario a 'little' more plausible you need to explain why Poland stick his neck out for the Czech as in OTL they happy
ily get along with it and even obtained some scrap.
 
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