A Darker World War II: A Timeline Reboot by Zoidberg12

Why did the Allies make such a monumental mistake by invading the Iberian peninsula as opposed to invading a beach in France or even Italy / Sicily? There is insufficient logistic infrastructure there to support the hundreds of thousands to millions of troops that would be pouring in there.

Why is there insufficient logistical infrastructure in Iberia as opposed to Sicily or Southern France? The original timeline had an Allied invasion of Iberia before an allied invasion of Sicily and Italy, so I figured that this would make enough sense.

The text suggests that there will be a footnote about MG William P. Upshur, yet there is none. What gives?

I just added this footnote into the above post.
 
Just because it was in the first story does not mean you have to automatically keep it here. It would be much better to take Sicily, Sardinia, and/or Corsica and not get bottled up in Spain/Portugal.
 

nbcman

Donor
Why is there insufficient logistical infrastructure in Iberia as opposed to Sicily or Southern France? The original timeline had an Allied invasion of Iberia before an allied invasion of Sicily and Italy, so I figured that this would make enough sense.

{snip}

There was a great deal of items in the original timeline that made no sense such as Spain magically gaining control of Portugal's overseas territories and Vichy France being carved up so readily by Spain and Italy, the SU allowing Britain to bomb their oil wells in Nov 1941 when the Germans were many kilometers away from them, the USMC (?) occupying Eastern Siberia in mid 1942 after the Japanese invaded with enough strength to take Vladivostok, and pretty much everything after the start of 1942. I'd look critically at the original timeline and draw your own conclusions on it and not just write a cliff notes version of it.
 
Just because it was in the first story does not mean you have to automatically keep it here. It would be much better to take Sicily, Sardinia, and/or Corsica and not get bottled up in Spain/Portugal.

I was thinking of having the Allies invading Sicily, Sardinia and/or Corsica in 1945 after the invasion of Iberia. Would it make more sense for an invasion of Sicily, Sardinia and/or Corsica in 1944 and an invasion of Iberia in 1945/1946?

There was a great deal of items in the original timeline that made no sense such as Spain magically gaining control of Portugal's overseas territories and Vichy France being carved up so readily by Spain and Italy, the SU allowing Britain to bomb their oil wells in Nov 1941 when the Germans were many kilometers away from them, the USMC (?) occupying Eastern Siberia in mid 1942 after the Japanese invaded with enough strength to take Vladivostok, and pretty much everything after the start of 1942. I'd look critically at the original timeline and draw your own conclusions on it and not just write a cliff notes version of it.

Interesting points. I'm thinking of either getting rid of the USSR allowing Britain to bomb their oil wells in November, 1941 or rewriting said event to the autumn of 1942 when the fall of the Caucasus to Nazi Germany was all but imminent. I could also change it so the Portuguese colonies went to the Free-Portuguese government right from the get go, but I think Spain gaining said colonies makes some sense, even if Spanish control over said colonies could have been somewhat tenuous. For the record, the Japanese still occupy Vladivostok as of June, 1944.

What do you guys think?

This is a very detailed TL. You've the given the Second World War a much bigger scope it had than OTL. I'm very impressed.

Thank You!

I look forward to the next update and hope our feedback has not discouraged you.

Thank You! I like constructive criticism.
 

nbcman

Donor
I was thinking of having the Allies invading Sicily, Sardinia and/or Corsica in 1945 after the invasion of Iberia. Would it make more sense for an invasion of Sicily, Sardinia and/or Corsica in 1944 and an invasion of Iberia in 1945/1946?



Interesting points. I'm thinking of either getting rid of the USSR allowing Britain to bomb their oil wells in November, 1941 or rewriting said event to the autumn of 1942 when the fall of the Caucasus to Nazi Germany was all but imminent. I could also change it so the Portuguese colonies went to the Free-Portuguese government right from the get go, but I think Spain gaining said colonies makes some sense, even if Spanish control over said colonies could have been somewhat tenuous. For the record, the Japanese still occupy Vladivostok as of June, 1944.

What do you guys think?
The change to the oil well bombing to 1942 makes good sense to me.

An Italian invasion in 1944 would make sense and follow OTL reasoning. But I don't know about an invasion of Iberia when IMO it is easier just to go into France and let Spain wither on the vine. By 1944, the US would be more the senior member of the Western Allies and would really be pushing for a French invasion as they did IOTL. Unless you want to throw a twist in the story and have Franco decide to throw in the towel and switch sides in 1944? Maybe negotiations similar to those prior to the OTL Torch landings (Operation Flagpole)?

Spain couldn't exert any control over any overseas Portuguese possession with the RN in the way. I think your idea of having the Portuguese colonies follow the Free-Portuguese government is more feasible. Possibly the Japanese could get control of their Pacific colonies (Timor, Macao) but the African colonies are outside of Spain's ability to control.

Thank You!

Thank You! I like constructive criticism.

I look forward to your next updates
 
The change to the oil well bombing to 1942 makes good sense to me.

An Italian invasion in 1944 would make sense and follow OTL reasoning. But I don't know about an invasion of Iberia when IMO it is easier just to go into France and let Spain wither on the vine. By 1944, the US would be more the senior member of the Western Allies and would really be pushing for a French invasion as they did IOTL. Unless you want to throw a twist in the story and have Franco decide to throw in the towel and switch sides in 1944? Maybe negotiations similar to those prior to the OTL Torch landings (Operation Flagpole)?

Spain couldn't exert any control over any overseas Portuguese possession with the RN in the way. I think your idea of having the Portuguese colonies follow the Free-Portuguese government is more feasible. Possibly the Japanese could get control of their Pacific colonies (Timor, Macao) but the African colonies are outside of Spain's ability to control.

I look forward to your next updates

I'm still on the fence about whether or not Spain would or should annex the Portuguese colonies after the Hispano-German invasion of Portugal. The Portuguese governors may have surrendered to Spain as in 1941 Axis domination over Europe seemed all but established and unchallangeable. As a result, they saw no way to resist the Axis. After all, IOTL Vichy France still managed to control most French colonies after 1940, although gradually these colonies defected or were bought over to Free France. I also think story-wise it makes things somewhat more interesting.

I gave this some thought, but I think I will keep the Allies invading Spain in 1944. If I still keep this, I will have the Allies invade Sicily and Italy in 1946 and France later in 1946.

What do you guys think?
 
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July 1, 1944: After a long British blockade, the government of French Somaliland declares itself a part of Free France. The Axis Powers are finally kicked out of the continent of Africa.

July 4, 1944: The Allies invade the Spanish-occupied Portuguese towns of Ciombra and Castello Branco. As in a number of other battles in Spanish-occupied Portugal, the Portuguese Resistance assists the Allies in the invasion of these towns through the sabotage of the Spanish war effort behind enemy lines. These acts of sabotage include destroying railroads, attacking supply trains, raiding army posts, among other such similar acts.

July 6, 1944: In preparation for the Allied invasion of Turkey, the Turkish Liberation Army (TLA) is established in Allied-occupied Damascus with Turkish general Kâzım Orbay at its head. A number of other Turkish army generals and military personnel who opposed the Axis invasion of Turkey join the new Turkish Liberation Army.


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Kâzım Orbay

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Flag of the Turkish Liberation Army [1]

July 7, 1944: The Allies invade Spanish-occupied southern Portugal by beginning a bombardment and invasion of the town of Evora.

July 9, 1944: Castello Branco falls to the Allies.

July 12, 1944: Ciombra falls to the Allies.

July 14, 1944: Evora falls to the Allies after only a week.

July 20, 1944: After over a month of planning and preparation, the Allies invade Toledo. The plan is to invade Madrid from the south after capturing Toledo, as well as for Allied armies from Portugal to assist in the invasion from the west.

July 22, 1944: The Allied armies storm out of Evora and then proceed to invade the town of Beja.

July 26, 1944: The Allies besiege and invade the town of Porto.

July 27, 1944: Beja falls to the Allies.

July 30, 1944: After ten days, the First Battle of Toledo ends in an Allied defeat. The Allied armies now have to recuperate and both metaphorically and literally lick their wounds.

August 2, 1944: Succumbing to pressure from the US Navy, the British Royal Navy and the Canadian Royal Navy the governments of the French Caribbean colonies declare themselves a part of Free France.

August 5, 1944: Bulgaria annexes the entirety of German-Bulgarian occupied Thrace. Some German troops from Thrace are then sent to German-occupied Athens, but the majority are sent to both the Iberian and Eastern Fronts.

August 6, 1944: Porto falls to the Allies.


August 8, 1944: The Allies capture the southern Portuguese towns of Sagres, Lagos and Faro.

August 9, 1944: The Allies besiege the Portuguese coastal city of Nazare.

August 11, 1944: Cut-off from the rest of Spain and Spanish-occupied Portugal, the Spanish armies in the city of Nazare surrender to the Allies after only two days.

August 12, 1944: Braga falls to the Allies.

August 14, 1944: Portugal is completely liberated by the Allies after all Spanish armies in Portugal surrender to the Allied armies. The Portuguese Provisional Government is established in Lisbon with Francisco Craveiro Lopes as Provisional President of Portugal.

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Flag of the Portuguese Provisional Government

August 15, 1944: The US Air Force and the British Royal Air Force restart aerial bombardments over Madrid and other areas surrounding the city.

August 18, 1944: Vigo is invaded by the Allies. These Allied armies include newly established Portuguese armies. The Spanish resistance, including Galician nationalists, assist the Allies through the sabotage of the Spanish war effort behind enemy lines.

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Flag of Galician Nationalism, first used by Galaician partisans during World War II [2]

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Galician partisans, circa August, 1944

August 21, 1944: Vigo falls to the Allies after three days of brutal battle.

August 29, 1944: Not wanting to see the historic cathedral destroyed by Allied bombardment, the Spanish armies in the town of Santiago de Compostela surrender to the Allies in a surprise move.

In Madrid, Francisco Franco is infuriated by this act of supposed cowardice on the part of these armies.

September 1, 1944: On the fifth anniversary of the beginning of World War II, the Allies drive into northern Spain and invade Oviedo.

September 8, 1944: After almost two months of planning, the Allies re-invade Toledo. As with numerous other battles on the Iberian front, the Spanish resistance assists the Allies through the sabotage of the Spanish war effort behind enemy lines.

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Members of the Spanish Resistance outside of Toledo, September, 1944

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The Flag of the International Brigades during the Spanish Civil War, one of the most popular flags used by the Spanish Resistance during World War II

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A variant of the Spanish Republican flag used by Communist Spanish partisans

September 9, 1944: Oviedo falls to the Allied powers.

September 13, 1944: The Allies begin besieging Valladolid.

September 15, 1944: The entirety of Galicia and Austurias are occupied by the Allies.

September 19, 1944: The Concentration Camp of Toledo is liberated by the American armies. Photographs and films of the Concentration Camp of Toledo are subsequently shown in numerous newspapers, magazines and newsreels in the United States, Great Britain, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, showing the horrors of the Holocaust to so many of the citizens of these nations for the first time.

September 24, 1944: After several days of harsh street to street battles between the armies of the Allies and Axis Powers, Toledo finally falls to the Allied armies. Thus, the Second Battle of Toledo ends in an Allied victory.

September 29, 1944: The Allies finally capture Valladolid.

October 1, 1944: Madagascar is handed over by the British to the Free French government.

October 12, 1944: After months of preparation and anticipation, the Allied armies invade Madrid from two directions. A number of Allied armies invade from Toledo in the south while a number of other Allied armies invade from Valladolid in the west.

October 15, 1944: As the result of several disagreements between him, Beria and Molotov, General Secretary Andrei Zhdanov, having already been largely discredited, is dismissed from the emergency triumvirate by Minister of Internal Affairs and NKVD head Baria and Premier Molotov in Omsk. Zhdanov then retires from public life and spends most of his newly-found free time in his private bunker in Omsk.

October 19, 1944: The Allied armies, led primarily by the American armies, liberate Madrid. As the Allied armies come into the city, many Spaniards run out into the streets, celebrate and greet the Americans, British, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders and other Allied soldiers as liberators.

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Members of the Spanish Resistance shortly after the liberation of Madrid

October 20, 1944: The Philippines Campaign of 1944-1945, also known as the liberation of the Philippines, begins. After over two years, General Douglas MacArthur has made good on his promise and has finally returned to the Philippines.

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Douglas MacArthur, Philippine President Sergio Osmeña and their staff land at Palo in the Philippine province of Leyte, October 20, 1944

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Douglas MacArthur

October 25, 1944: A number of Allied armies storm out of Madrid and begin besieging the city of Bilbao. Once again, the Spanish resistance, including Basque nationalists, assist the Allies through the sabotage of the Spanish war effort behind enemy lines.

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Flag of the Basque Country, used by Basque partisans during World War II

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Basque Partisans, circa October, 1944; note the black Basque Berets being worn by the soldiers

October 30, 1944: The US Army Air Corps and the British Royal Air Force begin a large-scale bombing campaign over the Italian possession of Sicily, Sardinia and Corsica.

November 3, 1944: In the United States presidential election of 1944, Democrats Franklin D. Roosevelt of New York and Director of the Office of War Mobilization James F. Brynes of South Carolina defeat Republicans Senator Robert Taft of Ohio and Senator Arthur H. Vandenberg of Michigan to become President and Vice President of the United States of America [3].

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Robert Taft

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Arthur H. Vandenberg

November 6, 1944: A number of Allied armies storm out of Madrid and begin besieging the cities of Zaragoza and Valencia.

November 8, 1944: Bilbao falls to the Allied powers.

November 11, 1944: The Allies begin besieging the city of Burgos.

November 14, 1944: The entirety of the Basque country is occupied by the Allies.

November 16, 1944: According to the official story, Andrei Zhdanov is found dead of alcohol poisoning in his bunker in Omsk. Some historians claim that Zhdanov was murdered by NKVD agents loyal to Baria to Molotov, while others claim that Zhdanov committed suicide, distraught over his being ousted from the Soviet wartime triumvirate.

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Andrei Zhdanov (2/26/1896-11/16/1944, aged 48)

November 17, 1944: The Allies invade the city of Pamplona.

November 19, 1944: Burgos is captured by the Allies.

November 22, 1944: Zaragosa falls to the Allies. By this point, many Spanish soldiers are beginning to see which way to the wind is turning and as a result surrender and defect to the invading Allied armies.

November 25, 1944: Valencia falls to the Allies. Once again, many Spanish soldiers surrender and defect to the invading Allied armies.

November 29, 1944: The Allies invade the city of Teruel.

December 3, 1944: Pamplonia is captured by the Allies. For the first time, Allied forces are now on the border with German-occupied France.

December 12, 1944: Teruel is captured by the Allies.

December 14, 1944: After over a year of planning and preparation, the American, British, Canadian, ANZAC, Free French and Turkish Liberation Army armies launch a major assault against the German Wehrmacht and the Collaborationist Turks in German-occupied Turkey. The Allies launch this assault with the American armies under Mark W. Clark and Lucian Truscott, the British armies under Henry Maitland Wilson, Claude Auchinleck and Ouvry Lindfield Roberts, the Canadian armies under E.L.M. Burns, the ANZAC armies under John Lavarack, the Free French armies under Paul Legentilhomme and the Turkish Liberation Army under Kâzım Orbay.

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Mark W. Clark

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Henry Maitland Wilson

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E.L.M. Burns

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John Lavarack

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Paul Legentilhomme

December 25, 1944: Over Christmas and the following days, the Allies continue conducting large-scale air raids on Sicily, Sardinia and Corsica.

December 31, 1944: By New Year's Eve of 1944, almost all of Spain is occupied by the Allied powers. Only the Spanish region of Catalonia is still under the control of Franco, the Spanish State and their loyalists.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[1] IOTL this is just a variant of the Turkish flag.

[2] IOTL this flag was invented in the 1960s.

[3] In the 1944 election ITTL, the Democrats and the Republicans won the same states as the did IOTL.
 
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1945

January 1, 1945: After over two weeks of bombardment and invasion, the Allies capture the Turkish cities of Antioch, Gazaintap and Van. The Allies then begin aerial bombardments over Diyarbakir, Adana, Kars, Trabzon and numerous other cities in eastern Turkey. Meanwhile, the Kurdish Liberation Army is beginning to make itself a thorn in the side of both the Allies and the Axis. However, they are still little more than a nuisance to both belligerents.

January 3, 1945: The Kemalist and anti-Axis Turkish Liberation Army sets up its provisional capital in the city of Antioch.

January 5, 1945: The Allies capture the Turkish cities of Sanlifura and Mardin.

January 9, 1945: The United States of America launches its campaign in Luzon in the Japanese puppet-state of the Philippines.

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Soldiers of the 25th Infantry Division at edge of Baleta Pass on March 23, 1945

January 12, 1945: The Allies capture the Turkish town of Adana.

January 13, 1945: Francisco Franco, with the help of German commando Otto Skorzeny, flees via airplane from Barcelona, Spain to Sigmaringen, Germany. As a result, General Gonzalo Queipo de Llano is now the de-facto leader of the Spanish State.

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Otto Skorzeny

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Gonzalo Queipo de Llano

January 14, 1945: The government of the Spanish State and all of the Spanish and German armies in Spain surrender to the Allies at Barcelona. After almost nine months, the Iberian Campaign of World War II ends. After almost nine years of existence, the Spanish State is disbanded. Spain is completely occupied by the Allied Powers. Andorra is also liberated.

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Spanish State (10/1/1936-1/14/1945)

January 16, 1945: With German support, Francisco Franco establishes a fascist Spanish government-in-exile in Sigmaringen.

January 17, 1945: The Allies begin invading the Turkish towns of Malatya and Konya.

January 19, 1945: In an unexpected move, Spanish General Gonzalo Queipo de Llano defects to the Allies.

January 23, 1945: The Allies capture Diyarbakir.

January 26, 1945: The Allies capture Muş.

January 29, 1945: The Allies being invading Erzurum.

January 30, 1945: US President Franklin D. Roosevelt dies of an intracerebral hemorrhage while working at his desk in the White House on the afternoon of his 63rd birthday. As a result, Vice President James F. Byrnes becomes President of the United States.

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Franklin D. Roosevelt (1/30/1882-1/30/1945, aged 63)

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James F. Byrnes, 33rd President of the United States of America

February 3, 1945: The Allies capture Malatya.

February 5, 1945: The United States Marine Corps under Brigadier General William W. Ashurst conducts a seaborne invasion of Japanese-occupied Sakhalin Peninsula from American-occupied Siberia.

February 9, 1945: The Allies begin besieging and invading Elazığ.

February 10, 1945: The Allies capture Erzurum.

February 12, 1945: The US Army Air Corps begins aerial bombardments over Japanese-occupied Sakhalin Peninsula.

February 15, 1945: The Allies begin besieging and invading Sivas.

February 20, 1945: The Allies restart conducting large-scale air raids on Sicily, Sardinia and Corsica.

February 21, 1945: After a month-long and bloody invasion, the Allies finally capture Konya.

February 22, 1945: The Allies begin besieging and invading Kayseri.

February 24, 1945: The Allies capture the town of Elazığ.

February 28, 1945: The Allies capture the town of Sivas.
 
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March 1, 1945: The Allies capture the town of Kayseri.

March 5, 1945: Two months after the surrender of Spain to the Allied Powers, the Provisional Government of Spain is established by the Allied Powers in the Spanish capital of Madrid. Álvaro de Albornoz y Liminiana, the President of the Spanish Republican government in exile in Mexico City, is made interim Head of State of Spain. Meanwhile, Diego Martínez Barrio, a former Spanish Prime Minister, is made the interim Head of Government of Spain.

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Álvaro de Albornoz y Liminiana

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Diego Martínez Barrio

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Flag of the Provisional Government of Spain, formerly the flag of the Second Spanish Republic

March 8, 1945: After almost three months of planning and preparation, the Second Battle of Ankara begins. The Allied armies invade Ankara with the American armies under Mark W. Clark and Lucian Truscott, the British armies under Henry Maitland Wilson and Claude Auchinleck, the Canadian armies under E.L.M. Burns, the ANZAC armies under John Lavarack and the Turkish Liberation Army under Kâzım Orbay and Hayrullah Fişek. The Germans defend Ankara with 7th Army under Walther von Reichenau, 12th Army under Alexander Löhr and 16th Army under Ernst Busch.

March 10, 1945: Álvaro de Albornoz y Liminiana and Diego Martínez Barrio fly out of Mexico City and arrive in Madrid to take up their roles as Head of State and Head of Government of the new Spanish provisional government. Thus, the Spanish Republican government in exile is officially disbanded.

March 14, 1945: The Allies begin large-scale aerial bombardments over Ankara and other German and Axis positions around the city.

March 19, 1945: The Spanish provisional government announces that a referendum on whether Spain will become a republic or a monarchy will be held sometime after the war.

March 27, 1945: Spain, under the new Spanish provisional government, joins the Allied Powers. Almost immediately, Spanish troops are sent to the Turkish Front.

April 6, 1945: In spite of defecting to the Allies, Spanish general Gonzalo Queipo de Llano is arrested by the Allied armies and the Spanish provisional government.

April 13, 1945: As the Second Battle of Ankara continues on, it is all too apparent that the Allies will soon emerge victorious. As a direct result, the Turks, Greeks, and Armenians of Constantinople (Istanbul) all rebel against the Italo-German occupation of their city. The Constantinople Rebellion begins.

April 15, 1945: The Second Battle of Ankara ends in an Allied Victory. Japanese-American soldiers, men who enlisted in the US Military to prove their loyalty to their nation and homeland, take the majority of the Allied casualties.

April 16, 1945: The collaborationist Turkish government relocates their capital from Ankara to Bursa.

April 19, 1945: The Kemalist Free Turkish government led by Kâzım Orbay relocates from Antioch and sets up its capital in the newly liberated city of Ankara.

April 20, 1945: The Republic of Armenia, without a declaration of war on Germany, invades German-occupied Turkey. As a result, Armenia becomes an Allied co-belligerent. In spite of Armenia saving signed a non-aggression pact with Germany in 1942, the government of the Republic of Armenia justifies this by saying that that said non-aggression pact was signed by a different Armenian government and regime, which it was.

April 22, 1945: The Republic of Armenia annexes the Turkish Iğdır Province, a province which contains Mount Ararat, an important mountain in the history of Armenia. The Free Turkish Army is not happy about this, but does not press the issue.

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Mount Ararat

April 30, 1945: The British, Canadian, ANZAC and Free Turkish armies begin their drive westward from Ankara towards Constantinople, facing stiff resistance from the Germans and collaborationist Turks all along the way. These forces drive towards Constantinople by besieging and invading the towns of Eğirdir and Eskişehir.

May 1, 1945: The American armies invade the northern Turkish cities of Amasya, Samsun and Sinop.

May 3, 1945: The British, Canadian, ANZAC and Free Turkish armies capture the town of Eskişehir.


May 4, 1945: As a result of the recent Allied advances, the remaining Germans in Anatolia are now cut off from their supply lines.

May 6, 1945: The American armies capture Samsun.

May 9, 1945: The Constantinople Rebellion is brutally suppressed by the Wehrmacht under General Walther von Reichenau. At the same time, a fire in the Fener neighborhood almost destroys a large part of the city until the fire is finally put out by both the Wehrmacht and the Italian Army.

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Walther von Reichenau

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A street in the Fener neighborhood in 2010

May 13, 1945: The American armies capture Amasya.


May 16, 1945: The British, Canadian, ANZAC and Free Turkish armies capture the town of Eğirdir.


May 20, 1945: The American armies capture Sinop.


May 22, 1945: The American armies join up with the British, Canadian, ANZAC and Free Turkish armies just outside of Eskişehir.

May 24, 1945: The Allied armies invade Bergama.

May 30, 1945: The Allied armies capture Bergama after six brutal and bloody days of battle. The road to Constantinople is now becoming open to the Allies.
 
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