A constitutional monarchy in South América?

There is a passage in history, when the war for independence start in South América, there were two ideas, Constitucional republican (Simón Bolivar) and Constituional monarchy (San Martín) and they crash in Perú; What would it happen if a constitutional monarquy were installed in Perú as it was proposed by San Martín (maybe not the european prince he ordered to look for in Europe, maybe San Martín as King), and also absorving Chile and Argentina (released by San Martín) and proably Bolivia,

Could it had work better?
A powerful nation (monarchy) in South America facing the ideas of Bolivar in the northen part of South America, and a another monarchy in Brazil.
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instead of twelve nations , only three south american nations?
 
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Peru had a fair chance - San Martin was in favour of getting a European prince to become constitutional monarch.

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
At some point, there was serious discussion about summoning a scion of the Inca dynasty. I am not sure it would have worked well at all, but maybe a European prince marrying a Mestizo "noblewoman" with Inca blood might help?
Also, what would happen to Paraguay?
 
I'm not entirely sure about the actual likelihood of all this... Its not like IOTL Bolivar and Martin up and declared "well chaps, what do you say, I think we need a jolly ole' (insert either monarchy or republic here)." :rolleyes:
 
At some point, there was serious discussion about summoning a scion of the Inca dynasty. I am not sure it would have worked well at all, but maybe a European prince marrying a Mestizo "noblewoman" with Inca blood might help?
Also, what would happen to Paraguay?

That's extremely unlikely unless the Inca scion was white. There's no way the independence leaders would accept an Indio to become their head of state, given the virulent racism that existed (and still does) in Latin America. Nope.

Trust me, it's a cool idea and one I considered but it's not happening.
 
That's extremely unlikely unless the Inca scion was white. There's no way the independence leaders would accept an Indio to become their head of state, given the virulent racism that existed (and still does) in Latin America. Nope.

Trust me, it's a cool idea and one I considered but it's not happening.

He would be a Mestizo of course, but considered "White". However, it was discussed OTL. Rather inconclusively and indeed I agree it is very unlikely unless the POD is before the Tupac Amaru revolution.
You surely know better than I do, but I gather that before that, the former Incan nobility, highly mestizofied, was somehow respected and accepted on a sort of equal footing with Spanish.
The sources I could see are clear about the respect many Spanish tributed to the indigenous Peruvian civilization and the way they recognized its elite as theoretically equal, but it was all gone by the time of the independence wars, and it was probably mostly lip service anyway.
 
He would be a Mestizo of course, but considered "White". However, it was discussed OTL. Rather inconclusively and indeed I agree it is very unlikely unless the POD is before the Tupac Amaru revolution.
You surely know better than I do, but I gather that before that, the former Incan nobility, highly mestizofied, was somehow respected and accepted on a sort of equal footing with Spanish.

But a large percentage of the Inca nobility participated with Tupac Amaru in his uprising against the Spanish there? The lot of them were killed off, to my knowledge. Well I do recall ONE person who was an Inca scion who was considered. His name was Dionisio Inca Yupanqui; he was a Spanish colonel and a deputy in the Courts of Cadiz. He seemed to have a high social position and was politically notable due to his representation of Peru at Cadiz. I'm not sure whether he was a criollo or mestizo but you might want to consider him.

The sources I could see are clear about the respect many Spanish tributed to the indigenous Peruvian civilization and the way they recognized its elite as theoretically equal, but it was all gone by the time of the independence wars, and it was probably mostly lip service anyway.

It was mostly lip service. The independence leaders considered themselves the heirs to the Inca but they were not exactly respectful when it came to the rights of the actual indigenous people descended from them. It probably didn't help a lot of the soldiers that fought for the Spanish and the royalists were made up of the indigenous South Americans.
 
At some point, there was serious discussion about summoning a scion of the Inca dynasty. I am not sure it would have worked well at all, but maybe a European prince marrying a Mestizo "noblewoman" with Inca blood might help?
Also, what would happen to Paraguay?

Well, i considered Paraguay in those times controlled by Argentina;
anyway, the mix of two bloods could be interesting; but due the fact of racism, it would be a problem; however I would consider maybe a mix of a daughter of Dionisio Inca Yupanqui with a european nobleman (not spaniard); but I want to include San Martín, maybe like protector for the first years;

so, maybe just maybe with a big amount of resources (naturals and humanas) and royal class, they can create a power in the southern hemisphere
 
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If a republic was established by Simon Bolivar, will it not include Ecuador as well? Was it not a part of Gran Columbia Federation along with Columbia and Venezuela? Will Peru and Bolivia also go along with Chile and Argentina, rather than with their northern neighbors? As I am not familiar with South American history, these doubts. Also, did Simon Bolivar and San Martin have adversarial relationship between them?
 
Well, i considered Paraguay in those times controlled by Argentina;
anyway, the mix of two bloods could be interesting; but due the fact of racism, it would be a problem; however I would consider maybe a mix of a daughter of Dionisio Inca Yupanqui with a european nobleman (not spaniard); but I want to include San Martín, maybe like protector for the first years;

so, maybe just maybe with a big amount of resources (naturals and humanas) and royal class, they can create a power in the southern hemisphere

San Martin is going to be the real power behind the throne no matter who sits on it.
A problem I see is the lack of a local nobility in the true sense of the word, whose interests can be connected to the Crown. As Cuhautemoc correctly said, the old Incan aristocracy had been mostly wiped out after 1788 at latest, and I doubt the criollo elite can express an equivalent.
 
San Martin is going to be the real power behind the throne no matter who sits on it.
A problem I see is the lack of a local nobility in the true sense of the word, whose interests can be connected to the Crown. As Cuhautemoc correctly said, the old Incan aristocracy had been mostly wiped out after 1788 at latest, and I doubt the criollo elite can express an equivalent.

The Inca plan could work more in Peru. The Argentines won't want it. It's not impossible but when it comes to a monarchy, they'll prefer someone from Spain or Portugal.
 
If a republic was established by Simon Bolivar, will it not include Ecuador as well? Was it not a part of Gran Columbia Federation along with Columbia and Venezuela?
Yes, it was, and in fact back in those days Colombia also included Panama too.
 
Well, according what I read it wouldn´t work for some countries (Chile and Argentina),

However as I see in almost all history, the problem with this young countries was they crossed to fast to the freedom from absolute ruling, so, at the end, in many countries there was a lot of post-wars for the power; so in order to avoid that, a monarchy is needed cause some people are not really prepared for democracy;

The monarchy is necessary at least in Perú, and it will fit perfectly, San Martín was a good defender of this, and with the support of many monarquists in Perú, it could work, so the war to release Perú it would be faster, and subsequently, Alto Perú (current Bolivia ) will be liberated too (spaniard troops won´t have any place where to go, so many will surrender or join the peruvian army); Bolivar will have to consolidate his power in Gran Colombia, keeping Guayaquil (for some time);

Also i read, that situation in Argentina post independence was not good, there was constant fight for power, even Buenos Aires leave the new country for some time, so let´s assume the seeing this, San Martín have more reasons to stay in Perú and continue with the fight, many of his troops stay with him (he will not die poor in some place in France), the independence is fulfilled, and Constitucional monarchy (joint european-inca) is established (also a big influx of monarquists could be waited from the rest of south american countries, even Belgrano), they will have a big army (commanded by San Martín), and a great amount of resources, keeping in some way the same institutions (the ones which work), but improving social conditions, and of course, a king and a parlament; and in some way having a more one to one relation with England and with other monarquist powers, maybe the prussian.

So, seeing i was to ambitious at first, now there would be: Great Colombia (Venezuela , Colombia, and a small Ecuador), Kingdom of Perú (including Bolivia, and part of Paraguay), Empire of Brazil (including Uruguay), Argentina (with part of Paraguay), and Chile (who which be the more stable at least for some time), and the Guyanas of course.

I found these to support this try:
http://bissextus.blogspot.com/2008/07/la-monarqua-inca-en-argentina.html
 
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let's start

The arise of the Kingdom

After the declaration of Independence, Gral San Martín start to take measures, the quest of a posible king was crutial he believes in a monarchy as perfect government and many in Perú share his ideas (he sent a commision to find a prince in Europè), however he needed more support to finish the war, he went to Guayaquil and had a meeting with Bolivar,

After many talks, San Martin was dissapointed, Bolivar want a lot of power, he was absolutist; so he retires and continue with the fight (Bolivar won't be a problem, he will have to stabilize the situation in Great Colombia for at leats 3 more years). In his absence, the peruvian government had lost two battles, due their lack of experience, so in order to get more men to his army, he decided to make use if his title of "Protector of Perú", and disolve the Junta was governing (the militars will support him in this decision), call the inner ideal of the realist army not to obey some king who abandon them when Napoleon invade Spain, and also betray their help. also a new strategy was implemented, small attacks to cut the supply to the spaniard army.

During 1822, hundreds of realist troop would desert and join the liberation army, also, new soldiers will arrive from Argentina (Bolivar won't send any soldiers). So in the next year, San Martín will reagroup his army and prepare to the inminent attack to the last remnants in Perú and Alto Perú, also, the idea of the constitutional monarchy was widespread to almost all the population to gain more adepts and simpathy (and It will make it). In the other hand, the new tactics were more effective, due the many attacks, realist troops retire more to the south to Ayacucho.

At the beggining of 1824, great news were delivered to the peruvian people, finally they would have a king, the young prince Alberto of the Sajonia-Coburgo-Saalfeld 's royal house, he will be marrying Inés Inca Perez, daughter of Dionisio Inca Yupanqui, one of the last descendents of Inca Empire, the Kingdom of Perú was oficcially born in february with the marriage and coronation in Lima, there was a great celebration, also helped by the fact the by mid of 1824, 1000 european soldiers (from Sajonia and Prusia) would arrived to help in the fight against the realistic army. By the way, San Martín will be keeping controll of the Army.

Now, it is december 1824, a new battle would be fought, 6 000 soldiers of the Independence Army (1000 prussians, 2500 peruvians and 2500 argentinians) vs 9000 soldiers of the Realist Peruvian Army (there would be a big reduction of realist army), It is a complete victory for the Kingdom of Perú, , the new year would arrive with the visit of the peruvian king and queen to Cuzco, also accompanied by Protector San Martín.

Now the final battle will be fought in La Paz, when the last remants of spaniard were defeated. The Kingdom of Perú was finally completed liberated.

A new power has arised in South America
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