A Confederate Question.

What does the CSA do after achieving its independence from the Union?
A) Strive to hold itself together.
B) Strive to rebuild its infrastructure.
C) Strive to reassert the concept of White supremacy.
D) Strive to wiggle out of all the promises made to foreign governments concerning the future of slavery.
E) Strive to manage the states and territories won from the Union.
F) Strive to refine its political system.
G) Strive to hold itself together.
H) Strive to assert Federal control over the states.
I) Strive to hold itself together.
J) Suppress slave revolts.
K) Strive to hold itself together.
L) ...
 
What are some measures that could be taken to halt, or atleast slow, the decrease in slave populations?

Well as I said if you have the passage of the Law of Free Birth (in 1871 it was, not 1867 - sorry, my bad) fail it would mean all children born after 1871 to slaves would still be slaves.

Perhaps Pedro II is overthrown after his 1867 Throne Speech calling for the gradual abolition of slavery?


Oh, and, do you think if they(CSA/Brazil) changed the terminology to 'indentured servants' that Britain would look the other way?

Can't really see the CSA changing the name for slaves. Having just fought a war to successfully preserve their states' rights to have slavery against the perceived threat of an abolitionist President I doubt they would go for a name change.

In any case, having Britain view the CSA (which has slaves) as a rival is essentially unavoidable given that Britain's position in the world was founded partly on trade and the CSA would be threatening that trade with slave labour. The planters and merchants in the West Indian colonies and India will be vehemently opposed to any good relations with the CSA and these people had some amount of influence on the British government (for instance it was these same classes which advocated that Britain take Canada as a war prize rather than one of the French islands (I think it was Martinique) after the Seven Year's War because they did not want to compete with yet another rich sugar colony for Britain's home market). You also have all the merchants and industrialists in Britain who would not be amused with the cheap, slave-made goods competing (and indeed undercutting) their own goods (and remember that these merchants, industrialists and factory workers are all voters in Britain....nobody in the CSA is a voter for the purposes of the British general elections).

Besides, I think it would make for a more interesting TL to have the CSA navigate the tricky diplomatic waters of relations with the UK, USA, France, Haiti, Liberia and Spain.




Hmmm. Why not just grab a (useful) piece of Africa and make a "Black Nation" out of it? You know, to feed the CSA with cheap, cheap rubber and the like.

That would be like playing with lit dynamite. In fact that would probably be one of the fastest ways to get the CSA involved in a war with the USA, Britain, France and Germany. Britain would probably just outright sink any CS ship heading to Africa if the CSA tried to actually grab a piece of Africa and France would support that effort. And with the Royal Navy likely to be many magnitudes of order larger than any Navy the CSA could field then the CSA would probably end up losing any Caribbean possessions and being subject to a blockade akin to what it experienced in OTL from the Union Navy (and which I suspect it did not really experience in the TL you are planning). Any Confederate attempt to grab territory in Africa would arouse suspicions that the CSA was trying to bring back the slave trade under the radar.

As a nation which encourages free trade in its own constitution the CSA is likely to prefer obtaining cheap, cheap rubber through free trade and to use parts of Africa (and maybe Haiti) as a dumping ground for troublesome and "excess" or "abandoned" slaves after the Boll Weevil sweeps through the South.
 
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Also, why the CSA obsession with access to the Pacific? What good does it do them? "Yea! Now we can send boats out into the big blue"... So... Now what?
.

Well an outlet on the Pacific allows for more trade. And the CSA even enshrined a ban on protectionism in it's constitution:

Article I, Section 8: Congress shall have the power
(1) To lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises for revenue, necessary to pay the debts, provide for the common defense, and carry on the Government of the Confederate States; but no bounties shall be granted from the Treasury; nor shall any duties or taxes on importations from foreign nations be laid to promote or foster any branch of industry; and all duties, imposts, and excises shall be uniform throughout the Confederate States.
 
This is specifically why I mentioned in the first post that this is not a discussion on how to get those areas, but what they(the CSA) does after the fact.

Then this is a timeline where Bragg, Hood, Van Dorn, Sibley, and the Johnstons make OTL's Robert E Lee look like an incompetent.

A) Civil war. Massive gains. Moving on.
B) California independent, protected by Anglo-Confederate arms and is in fact a Confederate puppet.
C) Confederacy kicked France out of Mexico, as France was firmly in the Union Camp.
D) British-Confederate relations are excellent, however the CSA has earned France's eternal scorn.

So over-the-top Confederate-wank then. This belongs firmly in ASB.
 

frlmerrin

Banned
I thought initially this was quite an interesting thread but after Nietzsche's answers to my questions I find myself in agreement with Fiver it is now an over-the-top-Confederate wank. Bit sad really, it could have been so much more.
 
Well an outlet on the Pacific allows for more trade. And the CSA even enshrined a ban on protectionism in it's constitution:
I certainly don't mean to hijack by any means, but trade with who? China?
Anybody worth trading with, or who had anything worth trading for would have been in the other direction. No?

I may be getting my facts wrong (talking off the top of my head here) but:
China was in lock-down by the Portuguese (Macau) and British (Hong Kong), the Spanish were firmly in the Philippines, and the US had a lock on Japan.

So, to trade... I guess, but with the war over, where could they go from a Pacific port that they couldn't more easily access via the Caribbean/Atlantic?
 
Hawai'i is always an option for increased CS trade...
The 1850's saw 20% of Hawaii's population wiped out, and they were still a kingdom. I suppose of the CS were interested in coconuts and tapa cloth it might be of interest...
 

Nietzsche

Banned
I thought initially this was quite an interesting thread but after Nietzsche's answers to my questions I find myself in agreement with Fiver it is now an over-the-top-Confederate wank. Bit sad really, it could have been so much more.
I know this is ASB. However, the ASB forum (and the Victoria 2 thread) don't get much traffic. I put it here because, well, I like the roleplay a bit with my Vicky games. Everyone who's played it knows they could reign supreme over the world with about 40 years of work with any state. Hawaii, any manner of the Indian statelets, Oman..


I thought I'd made it rather clear this was an ASB situation, and that I wanted to see what the mindset of the Confederate leadership would be in regards to resources, lands, foreign policy, the like.
 
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