A Confederate Civil War

There are a number of reasons there might be a civil war breaking out in the CSA itself the most likely being that states themselves can tax imports from other states. I think that would happen in Louisiana and Mississippi at least. They would tax everything coming down the Mississippi and that would be resented by Arkansaw and Tennesee. Some of the border states might eventually want to become Free States and find that is impossible under the CSA Constitution. A state might storm off because they don't like whoever got elected CSA president. After all that is what formed the CSA in the first place. Any other reasons for a CSA Civil War and what would be the sides and what would it look like?
 
OTL saw several Confederate civil wars, the chief cause of which was that the CSA's attempt to build a centralized state system for a real military purpose worked a mite bit too well.
 
Maybe slaves and poor yeoman farmers revolt against the planter aristocracy, something like the OTL Mexican Civil War? Maybe if the CSA gets the Five Civilized Tribes after independence an Emiliano Zapata-analogue appears among them if the CS government later turns against the Indians. Perhaps even a Pancho-Villa analogue who raids US towns in Kansas, prompting US intervention to make things even more complicated.
 
Major potential conflicts within the CSA.

1) Disputes between the state governments and the Confederate government on any number of issues.

2) Disputes between the Confederate planatation elites versus the industrializers/modernizers. This crosses over between rural versus urban, between the most advanced industrial states (Virginia and possibly Alabama because of Birmingham), and between the old political elites versus ex-CSA officers who saw how the CSA was destroying its own army due to lack of suppliers, as the ex-CSA officers are likely the core of a future Hamiltonian industrial policy faction.

3) Ongoing disputes between Southern unionists versus Confederate loyalists. Unionist territories include Eastern Tennessee, western North Carolina, northwestern Georgia, northern Alabama, northern Arkansas, and various pine barrens along the Gulf Coast (basically everywhere the local elites are not plantation slaveowners, but instead independent farmers).

4) New Orleans versus everyon else, as New Orleans becomes the center of internal southern resentment as the local financial center, and New Orleans desire to retain significant northern trade down the Mississippi, which might become in jeopardy to any number of trade disputes between the CSA and USA.

5) Ongoing slavery tension as Confederate slaves escape to the USA (which is under no obligation to ever return them), stage rebellions, or other forms of protest.

6) Returning CSA veterans demanding a greater invovlement in local political affairs against the designs of the plantation elite who are anti-Jacksonian Democrats who want to preserve their pre-Jacksonian aristocratic priveleges.

7) Possibe proto-Peronism as the CSA government seeks to control cotton and other agricultural exports as a means to raise government revenue versus the private interests who want to keep the profits for themselves.

There are lots of potential flashpoints. I expect any number of Whiskey and Shay's Rebellions type movement as disenchanted ex-soldiers decide to protect their interests by arms just as they protected their lands from the "Yankee invaders."

Whether any turn into full blown civil wars depends on the foresight and enlightened compromise of the Confederate goverment. Based on how badly they misjudged their chances at secession and how badly the CSA governed itself during wartime, I don't expect them to handle it very well.
 
There could also be a black led revolution depending on the demographics of this Confederacy. However, I could see potentially a war over a highly disputed election. however, what strikes me most about a Confederate Civil War is that it probally won't be a simple affair, and will resemble the Spanish, Mexican or Russian Civil Wars in the diversity of the sides fighting each other.
 
There could also be a black led revolution depending on the demographics of this Confederacy. However, I could see potentially a war over a highly disputed election. however, what strikes me most about a Confederate Civil War is that it probally won't be a simple affair, and will resemble the Spanish, Mexican or Russian Civil Wars in the diversity of the sides fighting each other.

Point taken, you could well see a many sided civil war. :eek:
 
There will most definitely be a multi-sided bloody civil war that likely ends with Balkanization or Revolution.
 
I expect balkanization. It may not be in the short term, but after one or two decades of continuing instability, I expect some states (notably Texas) to go onto their own. Some states may seek readmission into the union (I suspect most of the Upper South would, Virginia may hold out the most, but if TN and NC readmit, I suspect they'll join eventually). There may be a lower south union that continues to exist. I'd expect that to be the end result by the 1920s, but it'd take time, and much depends on the individual events and actions taken by whoever is in charge at the time. We can only talk about possibilities here, not definite outcomes.
 
Maybe slaves and poor yeoman farmers revolt against the planter aristocracy, something like the OTL Mexican Civil War? Maybe if the CSA gets the Five Civilized Tribes after independence an Emiliano Zapata-analogue appears among them if the CS government later turns against the Indians. Perhaps even a Pancho-Villa analogue who raids US towns in Kansas, prompting US intervention to make things even more complicated.
There was actualy a man who fits this description from OTL. His name was Henry Berry Lowrie he was a member of the Lumbee tribe of NC and according to Wikipedia:
On December 21, 1864, James P. Barnes, a neighbor of Allen Lowrie, accused him of stealing hogs. Henry Lowrie killed him. He also killed James Brantley Harris, a conscription officer, in January 1865 for allegedly mistreating the Lowrie family's women. In March 1865, the Home Guard searched Allen Lowrie's home and found firearms, which he was forbidden as a free black to own. The Home Guard convened a kangaroo court, convicted Allen Lowrie and his son William, and executed them. Henry Lowrie reportedly was watching from the bushes.
In revenge, his gang embarked on a series of robberies and murders against the white establishment, an insurgency that continued until 1872. It became known as the Lowry War. The Lowrie gang consisted of Henry Lowrie, his brothers Stephen and Thomas, two cousins (Calvin and Henderson Oxendine), two of his brothers-in-law, two black men who were escaped slaves, a white man, and two other men of unknown relation.

Involving him in a TL would be awsome!

Also when it comes to states seceding from the CSA don't count out SC. It's leaders through out history seem to just love trying to secede!
 
Also when it comes to states seceding from the CSA don't count out SC. It's leaders through out history seem to just love trying to secede!
throughout its history, the south--and especially south carolina--has bitched and moaned whenever it doesnt get its way :rolleyes:
 
I believe Mr Johnrankins meant after the conclusion of the war, and as Mr. Featherston has pointed out, there were quite a few small scale conflicts carried out by unionist during the actual war itself.
 
I believe Mr Johnrankins meant after the conclusion of the war, and as Mr. Featherston has pointed out, there were quite a few small scale conflicts carried out by unionist during the actual war itself.

Yes, I meant that if the South actually won it is very likely to go through another civil war if not more than one.
 
Major potential conflicts within the CSA.

1) Disputes between the state governments and the Confederate government on any number of issues.

2) Disputes between the Confederate planatation elites versus the industrializers/modernizers. This crosses over between rural versus urban, between the most advanced industrial states (Virginia and possibly Alabama because of Birmingham), and between the old political elites versus ex-CSA officers who saw how the CSA was destroying its own army due to lack of suppliers, as the ex-CSA officers are likely the core of a future Hamiltonian industrial policy faction.

3) Ongoing disputes between Southern unionists versus Confederate loyalists. Unionist territories include Eastern Tennessee, western North Carolina, northwestern Georgia, northern Alabama, northern Arkansas, and various pine barrens along the Gulf Coast (basically everywhere the local elites are not plantation slaveowners, but instead independent farmers).

4) New Orleans versus everyon else, as New Orleans becomes the center of internal southern resentment as the local financial center, and New Orleans desire to retain significant northern trade down the Mississippi, which might become in jeopardy to any number of trade disputes between the CSA and USA.

5) Ongoing slavery tension as Confederate slaves escape to the USA (which is under no obligation to ever return them), stage rebellions, or other forms of protest.

6) Returning CSA veterans demanding a greater invovlement in local political affairs against the designs of the plantation elite who are anti-Jacksonian Democrats who want to preserve their pre-Jacksonian aristocratic priveleges.

7) Possibe proto-Peronism as the CSA government seeks to control cotton and other agricultural exports as a means to raise government revenue versus the private interests who want to keep the profits for themselves.

8) Revanchism - Many in an independent CSA would feel they are entitled to all of the slaveholding states, plus a 'fair' share of the territories. Some will feel it's worth fighting to obtain West Virginia, Kentucky, Missouri, etc. while others will not.

9) Representation - Missouri and Kentucky still had a full set of Senators and Representatives in spite of the CSA not controlling either state. Virginia had more than its fair share of Representatives even before the loss of West Virginia. Some of the other states could resent this.

10) Expansion - Some will want to try to acquire parts of Mexico, Central America, and the Caribbean; others will see that as a waste of lives and treasure.

11) The economy - OTL's Confederacy racked up $2.7 billion of federal debt. $1.5 billion of that was treasury notes due 6 months after the war ended. Leaving the CSA to get out of their share of the debt would be tempting.

12) Unionists - about 10% of draft age white men from Confederate states served in the Union Army. Individual CSA states may come to significantly different opinions from each other or from the CSA government about what should be done about these men, their dependents, and their property.

13) Elections - the CSA has already established the example of seceding if your candidate loses. Since they're all nominally Democrats, men will probably nominate themselves in the first few elections. There could easily be half-a-dozen or more candidates for the 1867 Presidential election.

14) Military spending - CSA states will probably vary significantly on what size and expense for a peacetime army and navy is appropriate.

15) The international slave trade - South Carolina almost didn't join because the CSA Constitution forbade the international slave trade. Some CSA states will probably engage in smuggling, risking conflict with the British Anti-Slavery patrols that other CSA states will want to avoid.
 
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