A Completely New and Original Idea

Anyways, a Murong Yan victory over the Tuoba Wei is significant. First, Murong Chui is still close to death (he died a year later in 396 historically). However, historically the Yan raised another army right after losing one at Canhe Slope, so I think that the Yan are actually in a good position to conquer China. Their territories in Hebei, Shandong, and Liaoning are more valuable than the Tuoba Wei's territories in the north. However, Murong Chui's death left a power vacuum, so I can see a stalemate between the Wei and Yan too. Whatever's fine with you works.

Well, in this scenario, the Yan will be in a much tougher situation because Goguryeo has essentially subdued Baekje, which means that Gwanggaeto would be in a much better position to strike into North China. I currently plan to have Murong Chui die in 397/8, and IOTL, after Murong Chui died, his son attacked Goguryeo when it was busy fighting in the southern portion of the peninsula, causing Gwanggaeto to retaliate by seizing the Liaodong Peninsula. Of course, the Yan is in a stronger position as well, but my assumption is that if the Wei manages to hold out for 2-3 years after Canhe Slope, then the Yan will ultimately face a two-pronged attack.

However, there are still other states in Northern China besides the Yan and Wei. Are the Later Qin, the Western Qin, and the Later Liang going to make an appearance?

Yes, they will. I still haven't decided how important they will be in ATL, but they will definitely be mentioned.
 

scholar

Banned
I'm curious to see how Fu Jian did in this, as well as Eastern Jin.

Fu Jian and Murong Chui, along with their relatives, make up one of my some of my favorite characters in the Age of Fragmentation, along with Liu Yu and a few others. I hope to hear more about them as they should have some contact with Goguryeo. If you went the way of mostly OTL for China, then Fu Jian has met his tragedy and Liu Yu is soon to rise. The Liu Song/Eastern Jin both had regular contact with the Korean Kingdoms as well as some Japanese states, so that could have some interesting interactions.
 
I will introduce some dialogue in this update, as I thought that this approach would suit this particular presentation better. This is also my first time in almost three years that I have presented a post in this format, so feel free to present constructive criticism on the writing style if necessary.



Although Goguryeo had managed to essentially subdue the other states on the peninsula by either defeating or allying with them, Baekje still managed to mount a counterattack by working together with Gaya and Japan in order to attack Seorabeol. The main reason for the belligerent stance was due to the fact that Goguryeo's expansions caused the southern states to lose access to most of the maritime trade routes between China and the Korean Peninsula. After initial victories, the counter-alliance managed to surround Geomseong, the state's capital, and besieged it for 10 days [1] before they were forced to retreat due to low supplies.

However, the situation became dire to the point where the ruler of Seorabeol, Naemul Maripgan, personally traveled to (South) Pyongyang, and in tears, sorrowfully requested Damdeok to save his state. The pleading and the ruler's steadfast allegiance to Goguryeo, stemming from ties with previous rulers, caused the Taewang to travel south with a force of 50,000 in order to aid his vassal and defeat the southern alliance. Instead of heading first to Baekje, however, he decided to strike into Gaya, because doing so would hinder Baekje and Japanese forces from linking together.

Gaya was probably the first state in the south to centralize, due to its strategic location in the Nakdong River Basin, which possessed an abundant amount of raw materials used to create iron. However it had solely produced plate armor (판갑/板甲), in opposition to Goguryeo's lamellar armor (찰갑/札甲), which meant that an arrow would be much more fatal for Gaya troops [2]. Damdeok used the advantage to position light cavalry in the front in order to surround the enemy from left and right, then struck from the front with heavy cavalry, splitting the massed army into smaller groups in order to make it easier to attack. As a result, the disparity between the two states caused the less technologically advanced one to surrender within several days, and to gradually begin disintegrating from within [3], leaving Damdeok free to head to Baekje.

However, as Damdeok rode further into Baekje territory, he realized that unlike before, there were no signficant attempts to prevent him from reaching the capital. As a result, he reached Ungjin without major resistance, and sent a message, demanding to hear from Baekje's monarch. A few moments later, the gates opened, and the ruler, along with several courtiers, came out unarmed. After stopping directly in front of the Taewang, he suddenly lowered his position. Damdeok was mildly surprised to see the Eoraha kneeling before him [4], but he remained silent.

I would like to beg for forgiveness, and I will quietly accept any punishment.” His voice was weak.

Damdeok responded calmly. “Why did you gather an alliance and strike Seorabeol?”

Forgive me for my incompetence. I foolishly thought that Seorabeol would give in to our demands, but they remained adamant, so I decided to attack them along with Gaya and Japan, which had similar objectives as mine.”

You already lost your capital. Weren't you afraid that Ungjin could be taken over as well?”

It did cross my mind, but my brother's foolish decision had already cost us too much. I thought that doing anything to recover our pride would help the people as a whole.”

The Taewang asked in a criticizing voice. “Do you still not understand what you have done?”

There was silence.

You would know better than anyone else in your state that the same blood runs within our veins. We are both descended from Jumong, our Great Ancestor, and his descendants managed to drive the Han Chinese out from the peninsula, while others founded a powerful state centered on the Ari River. My grandfather might have been assassinated then due to the intense competition between family members, but here we are now. The entire conflict between our states has solely been limited between our troops. Must we attempt to drag other states in as well?”

I could not bear to see my people suffering from harsh conditions any longer, so I decided to take action. Nothing more.”

Yes, but do you not see the whole picture? Our venerable ancestors (Gojoseon) fell to the Han Dynasty because of internal conflict between officials. Must we spill blood over and over again until the barbarians ravage and trample over our fields, shattering the peninsula into pieces? Do we need to exhaust ourselves until another takes over and crushes our states, causing a tragic end to our descendants [5]? Do you want our ancestors' efforts to have been in vain?”

What-must I do then?” Buyeo Heong sputtered in a choked voice while looking down.

Damdeok spoke in a booming voice. “Join me.”

The Eoraha looked up in surprise.

We must remain strong against our enemies. You and I, along with our ancestors, have fought over control of the peninsula, but we have finally reached a point in which we can put our differences aside, and look outward. We must remain united against the barbarians [6] surrounding the peninsula and defeat them so that they cannot recover. If they continue to raid our possessions, we must drive together into the Central Plain (中原) [7] in order to establish a new presence within the world. Will you join me?”

There was no response.

Do you want to open up a new world with me so that our people can prosper for ten thousand years [8]?”

Yes.”

Stand up, and face me.” The kneeler did so.

Remember this day, so that our descendants can state how and why our union occurred. We have become one, and I will discuss this issue with the other states in the peninsula as well in order to strive together for the greater good and become merely part of a greater whole. We will never forget that we are Han (/) (Korean) [9].”

Damdeok turned to leave, and Buyeo Heung then bowed from a standing position until the Taewang had disappeared from the horizon.

We may have won the first battle, but we have lost the war.” He sighed, but it was too late.



[1] The capital was besieged for five days IOTL.

[2] The former refers to large “plates,” while the latter concerns small flexible interlocking pieces that were tied together. Goguryeo horses were also covered in armor.

[3] IOTL, Silla was able to take advantage of this by conquering Gaya in 562.

[4] IOTL, Asin ended up surrendering in this manner in 396. Also, although the Gwanggaeto Stele does not specify, it records that a brother of the ruler was taken as hostage, which is essentially the reverse as ATL.

[5] The first scenario is similar to what occurred after Gojoseon fell, while the second scenario mirrors how Silla unified most of the Korean peninsula in 668/76.

[6] Although this viewpoint is speculation, Goguryeo's rulers essentially considered themselves descendants of heaven, and the states in North China at this time were founded by nomads who had recently originated from Central Asia. Meanwhile, the Japanese states were separated from Korea both geographically, and to an extent, culturally, so the assumption is reasonable.

[7] The area roughly corresponds to the northeastern part of China Proper, roughly between the Yellow and Yangtze Rivers.

[8] Language/cultural notes: I originally wanted to write something along the lines of “ . . . open up a new sky . . .” (우리의 백성들이 만년 동안 풍성하게 살수 있는 목적을 위해서 나와 함께 합류하고 새로운 하늘을 열고싶어?) as this approach would suit the situation better, but it doesn't quite have the same ring in English as it does in Korean. Also, in East Asia, 10,000 was often used as a figurative amount denoting a long period of time, possibly eternity.

[9] The first mention of this character being used to represent the Koreans as a whole occurs in the Gwanggaeto Stele. In addition, the stele provides the first recorded example of Korean, as a few Korean particles that do not make sense within a Classical Chinese context appear throughout as well.



I'm curious to see how Fu Jian did in this, as well as Eastern Jin.

Fu Jian and Murong Chui, along with their relatives, make up one of my some of my favorite characters in the Age of Fragmentation, along with Liu Yu and a few others. I hope to hear more about them as they should have some contact with Goguryeo. If you went the way of mostly OTL for China, then Fu Jian has met his tragedy and Liu Yu is soon to rise. The Liu Song/Eastern Jin both had regular contact with the Korean Kingdoms as well as some Japanese states, so that could have some interesting interactions.

The POD occurs in 395, so Fu Jian will be unaffected. However, thank you for mentioning Liu Yu, and I'll look into the details during his reign.
 
I would first like to thank everyone who has viewed this thread so far, especially those who have visited since my last post. After my last post, the thread was viewed 500 times within a week, and almost 750 times from my last post until this one. I'll also try to add in some dialogue occasionally if I have time.



[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]([/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]南船北馬[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]/[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]남선북마[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]) [1][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Yeongnak ([/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]영락[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]/[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]永樂[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]) 6-11 (396-401) [2][/FONT]

After riding triumphantly back into Guknae Fortress, Damdeok decided to temporarily declare a national holiday for a few months and let his people rest after the numerous campaigns. However, he alone returned to business, as Murong Chui had died in 396, leading the crown prince, Murong Bao, to take over. As Goguryeo had been the Yan's oldest enemy, the new ruler decided to focus on the east. Under his leadership, the Yan had crossed into Goguryeo's western border in 397 [3] and pillaged several villages and fortifications, while the Taewang had been busy in the south. The Yan managed to seize 700 li () [4] of territory, took over the Shin (신성/新城) and Namso Fortresses (남소성/南蘇城) [5], and moved about five thousand households into Yan territory. In response, the Goguryeo ruler initially made preparations by sending messengers to the Beli (Khitan), Mohe (Malgal), Buyeo, Baekje, Gaya, and Seorabeol, asking them to provide supplies for the upcoming conflict. They all dully did so, and in 399, after mobilizing his troops, Damdeok decided to lead a force of 35,000 into the Liaodong Peninsula in order to confront Murong Bao.

However, instead of directly confronting the threat, the Yan ruler decided to retain the soldiers within the fortifications, and refrain from sending any additional reinforcements. The main reason for this decision was due to the fear of a Wei attack from the desert. Although the Wei was not in a position to conquer the Yan on its own, it had managed to ally with the Later and Western Qin (, 西秦) by 398, while keeping in contact with the Later, Northern, and Southern Liang (, , 南凉). The states involved in the alliance managed to combine troops in order to maintain a balance of power in North China, and prepare for a potential incursion from the Later Yan by protecting each other. There was also the threat of a potential revolt if Murong Bao left the capital, as many generals started to become weary of his vacillating stance when making decisions. As a result, although the Yan had preemptively attacked Goguryeo in order to avoid being caught between two groups of allies converging from the west and east, the incursion actually provoked the one in the east, allowing some breathing space for the western alliance.

The conflict between the Yan and Goguryeo had lasted for over 150 years, during which Goguryeo had gradually expanded its domains within Liaodong [6], although the Yan managed to retain most of the Liaodong Peninsula in the south. Because of the state's proximity to Chinese and nomadic states in the west, Goguryeo fortresses were usually located in inhospitable places such as cliffs or mountains. The walls formed a crescent shape, and the unprotected side was surrounded by a river. However, the fortifications and geography were unable to prevent the Yan from overrunning border fortresses and sacking the capital. As a result, Damdeok decided to initially recover the lost territory, then attack Yan fortifications in order to seize control of the Liaodong Peninsula. These actions would not only cut off Later Yan's access to the sea, but also help Goguryeo control trade routes between China and Korea. Soon after Goguryeo recovered its lost territory, the ruler decided to attack Sujun Fortress (宿軍城) [7] in retaliation, but the gatekeeper decided to flee, surrendering the fortress without a fight. Finding the lack of resistance to be suspicious, Damdeok returned to the capital.

After carefully deliberating the various possibilities, Damdeok decided to attack the Later Yan directly in order to prevent future raids, and began making preparations for offensive maneuvers that would be carried out a few years later. However, his plans would be temporarily put on hold when Baekje and its Japanese allies suddenly attacked Daebang (Daifang) territory in 401, located between the two Pyongyang fortresses within the peninsula [8]. According to a Baekje messenger later sent by Buyeo Heung, the assault was directed by Asin, who was determined to score a major victory in order to clear his name. Although Goguryeo was caught by surprise, it managed to repulse the invaders, and Damdeok decided to plan a counterattack in order to intimidate Baekje and prevent it from carrying out further raids. In the same year, Damdeok led his forces in a surprise attack at night on Ungjin Fortress, catching the defenders off guard. After obtaining a promise that Baekje would send troops in order to aid future Goguryeo expeditions, Damdeok sailed to Seorabeol, then headed to Japan.



[1] This edit, along with the following one, was added a few minutes before the next post. It is a four-character idiom, and this form has continuously been used in China, along with others that have been culturally and linguistically influenced by it. This particular phrase literally means "south boat north horse," and figuratively illustrates someone traveling busily among various locations. Although this saying originated from using boats to travel rivers in South China, and horses to cross mountains and deserts in North China, this also applies to the situation in Manchuria and the Korean Peninsula as well.

[2] As I stated earlier in a previous post, Yeongnak was Damdeok's era name. The specifics can be found in the second footnote of the following post.

[3] IOTL, the attack occurred in 399, when Damdeok was away in the south, because Murong Sheng thought Damdeok had not shown him proper courtesy as the Yan ruler.

[4] Although the definition changed over time, a li was roughly 415.8 meters, so the length of the territory mentioned was around 293.16 kilometers, or about 182.1612 miles.

[5] The first is located in present-day Fushun, Liaoning, and the latter is located further east.

[6] Liaodong is technically a Chinese concept, and generally refers to land east of the Liao River and west of the Yalu. However, it is extremely unlikely that the Chinese domains (excluding the Yuan and Qing) expanded very far north, while Goguryeo took the opposite approach by starting from the north and making its way south until it managed to occupy the entire Liaodong Peninsula.

[7] Near modern-day Beizhen, Liaoning. IOTL, this fortress was attacked in 401.

[8] IOTL, the attack occurred in 404. After Jangsu conquered Wirye Fortress in 475, it was renamed as South Pyongyang Fortress (남평양/南平壤), which makes it hard to distinguish between the original fortress located around Ji'an, Jilin, the one located in modern-day Pyongyang, and the one located in modern-day Seoul. To make matters worse, throughout history, there were several fortresses in the vicinity of Seoul, so it is unknown exactly where Wirye/South Pyongyang Fortress was located.
 
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(狗馬之心/구마지심) [1]

Yeongnak (영락/永樂) 10-14 (400-4) [2]

Damdeok decided to send an incursion into Japan in order to prevent further raids by dealing a final blow to the southern alliance under Baekje's leadership, so that he could solely focus his efforts to the west afterward. The first landing occurred in Northern Kyushu (九州), where Baekje had first contacted the Japanese statelets decades earlier. The relative lack of organized resistance, due to minimal preparation, meant that Goguryeo forces were able to sweep through most of the island within ten days, and turn to Shikoku (四国) and Southwestern Honshu (本州) as the next targets. About a month after the initial invasion, the clans in Japan agreed to surrender, and agreed to cut off military ties with Baekje, although Damdeok allowed them to retain trading links. He also decided to leave a small detachment of roughly 1,000 troops behind in Northern Kyushu in order to keep watch over the islands, and then headed back to the peninsula.

When he returned to the capital, he was quickly informed of the events that had occurred while he was away. All of the Buddhist temples that he had ordered to build at the beginning of his reign had been fully constructed, so he directed the workers to build more in other cities in order to promote the religion further [3]. Meanwhile, in the west, the Yan was undergoing a succession crisis. Due to the loss of territory to Goguryeo, along with a continuing stalemate with the Wei, Lan Han (蘭汗) [4] assassinated Murong Bao and became the ruler in 400, but only a few months later, he was also assassinated and replaced by the former's son, Murong Sheng (慕容盛) [5]. However, due to his harsh rule, in which he continuously purged numerous generals for supposedly plotting against him, he was soon overthrown, and his uncle, Murong Xi (慕容熙) [6], became ruler in 402. The new ruler then decided to gauge Damdeok's abilities by sending an ambassador, asking he had accomplished, what he was currently doing, and what he hoped to become renowned for after his death. The taewang was deep in thought for a while, then responded:

“I do not see any difference among the three. Of course, some actions must be taken before others, and their results will follow naturally. However, I will always put the interests of the people first, which is essential for the nation's stability [7]. They will never support anything that will ultimately make their lives miserable, so it is my duty as a ruler to carry out their wishes. Because their dreams are the same as mine, I will be able to help the people prosper, while they can work together in order to accomplish what an individual cannot do alone [8]. Now go and tell your ruler what I have said, and ask him what he intends to do for his people.”

When the messenger returned, Murong Xi realized that he had to deal with a formidable opponent, and decided to reorganize the government and strengthen the military in order to confront him in the near future. Two years later, he then decided to strike west into Wei territory in order to break the alliance. Although the Yan managed to reach Wuyuan (五原) [9] once again, east of the Wei capital, they failed to advance further due to adverse weather conditions for the second time, and were forced to retreat to Zhongshan by the end of the year. However, the western alliance was gradually falling apart, as the Wei's continued failure to mount significant offensive maneuvers greatly distressed the other states, causing them to consider negotiating with the Yan before the situation became worse. In desperation, Tuoba Gui, the Wei ruler, decided to send a message to Damdeok, requesting him to attack the Yan from the west, and coordinate their efforts in order to defeat their common enemy. Although he sent a response providing him details of general logistics and the date for the attack, it was intercepted by Yan forces. When Murong Xi was informed of Damdeok's plans, he became enraged, and immediately made plans to attack Goguryeo in 404.



[1] This is a four-character idiom, and although the style originated in China Proper, it eventually spread to other states influenced by the Chinese culture and language, namely those in Central Asia, Korea, Japan, and Vietnam. The idiom's literal meaning is “dog and horse's loyalty,” and is an allusion to the commoners' devotion to the ruler. The saying was taken from the Book of Han.

[2] This is Gwanggaeto's era name, which I mentioned in a previous post, and would have been used during his reign. I forgot to include this in my previous posts, but it is not particularly a major detail, and the only thing that people need to know is that IOTL, 391=Yeongnak 1, as it was the beginning of his reign, and that the system continues until 412=Yeongnak 22, which is when he passed away.


[3] The Samguk Sagi states that construction was completed in 392, but this is highly unlikely considering the fact that resources would have been mostly diverted to fighting Baekje for more than 20 years before then. It is also highly likely that the work was completed some time after 396, after Goguryeo finally captured most or all of the fortifications north of Wirye Fortress.


[4] He took over in 398, and ruled from May to August IOTL. Although I realize that the PoD could potentially prevent him from becoming a ruler, the reality is that Murong Bao's general attitudes would not be affected. Because he was often indecisive about making political and military decisions, unlike his father, it is highly likely that Murong Bao would have been forced to step down by either one of his generals, or a family member.


[5] Reigned from 398-401 IOTL. I also accidentally confused him with his father in the preceding post, but the errors have now been corrected.


[6] IOTL, he came to power in 401.


[7] Gwanggaeto's actions IOTL somewhat justify this, as he initially sent troops into Khitan territory in order to recover the migrants who had been taken away by force. He then focused solely on Baekje, and although he probably attacked the Khitan once more in 395, he managed to surround Wirye Fortress in the following year and force Asin to essentially surrender. Considering that Gogukwon had been assassinated by Geonchogo's forces 25 years earlier, Gwanggaeto's actions suggest that he was fully committed to breaking Baekje's will so that it would not be able to threaten Goguryeo again.


[8] In 400, when Baekje's coalition invaded Silla, Gwanggaeto responded by driving the Japanese forces out of the peninsula, then subjugated both Gaya and Silla. These actions suggest that he made a clear distinction between the states in the peninsula, as they shared a common culture and language, against other states in China, Central Asia, and Japan. Because historical records are sparse, it remains unknown whether he managed to send a peninsular coalition against the Yan, or if he had been planning to send one into China Proper before his death.


[9] Modern-day Baotou, Inner Mongolia.
 
(一擧兩得/일거양득) [1]

영락/永樂 13-4 (403-4)

Although Damdeok had been making gradual preparations to attack the Yan once more in retaliation for its border raids in 397, Tuoba Gui's request caused him to mobilize his troops more quickly than planned. They originally planned to distract the Yan by conducting small-scale raids in order to negotiate, but after communication with the Wei was cut short by the Yan, Goguryeo decided to attack the western border in full force in order to extract concessions. As before, Goguryeo requested supplies from its vassals, although the Japanese statelets were exempt because of the numerous entities involved. On the other hand, it increased its force to 50,000, excluding those already located along the border, in order to strike into the Liaodong Peninsula. The main reason was that it was a strategic point from which it could view the enemy approaching from the sea, or attack the opponent with the navy in conjunction with the army crossing the Liao River. It also considered the region to be originally part of what had been Gojoseon, which led Goguryeo to view the act of seizing the peninsula as recovering lost territory, rather than taking over someone else's [2].

Faced with a two-front war, Murong Xi decided to return to the capital and deliberate with his advisors about potential strategies, although he retained about 35,000 troops along the western border with the Wei. The generals were confident that the Wei would break down under pressure within a year, while the alliance would cease to exist by then. As a result, their strategy was to increase the number of troops within the fortifications along the border with Goguryeo, while continuing to pressure Wei by restarting the offensive. However, the court disagreed, stating that whether the monarch decided to focus on the western or eastern border, the neglected one would become unstable after an invasion swept through or severely impacted the border fortifications. Due to the general political instability that had existed before Murong Xi had come to power, the ministers emphasized that a truce was necessary, as it would buy time for the Yan to reorganize its troops, while planning modified strategies in order to confront two potentially converging alliances in the near future. They also hoped that each alliance would fall apart without the Yan taking military action, which would allow the lone state to regain numerical superiority and reestablish dominance over North China.

The Yan ruler considered both viewpoints, and because there was a deadlock due to the rationality of both viewpoints, he decided to adjourn the meeting and meet on the following day. While alone, instead of going to bed immediately, he remained in his study, and ran over both scenarios in his head. He realized that the Wei was on the verge of collapse, and that its allies were gradually turning their backs. The Later Qin had sent a request for a potential alliance, as it had contributed the second largest amount of forces under Wei's coalition, and was becoming weary of the stalemate, while others had sent messengers with requests for negotiations. However, he also realized that Goguryeo had managed to score constant victories against its neighbors, while allowing them to remain independent as long as they occasionally sent tribute. This approach allowed each state to generally focus on internal matters, while following Goguryeo's orders, making them difficult to deal with individually. Anticipating the current situation, he had previously sent a messenger to Baekje in 403 requesting an alliance against Goguryeo [3]. However, the Eoraha had responded that Asin's risky actions had cost Baekje's capital and half of its territory, along with the loss of its own alliance, and had politely declined, due to the fear of retaliation from Goguryeo.

The next day, the generals and the court gathered in anticipation of the ruler's decision. Although they expected him to pick a side, they were surprised when he stated:

“We shall attack Goguryeo.”

His determination was firm, although the listeners were not convinced of the wisdom of his decision, and began babbling incoherently together. Some were clearly shocked that he had ignored their suggestions altogether, while others' hopes were crushed with the fact that Murong Xi refused to back down from planning to confront a stronger enemy, while letting the other regain strength. After the chaos had died down, he continued:

“I realize that I am making a decision that is contrary to your wishes. However, both the Wei and Goguryeo have been our enemies for decades, and until recently, while the former has been a loyal vassal for as long as we can remember, the other has consistently continued to resist our incursions [4]. Although we even burned down Goguryeo's capital at one point [5], they have stubbornly refused to acknowledge us as their superiors, with the exception of occasionally paying tribute. As a result, we must attack our eastern neighbor in order to show them that we are adequately prepared to counter their strategies, while showing the Wei that we are ready to fight two enemies at once if necessary. Remember, we have never confronted Goguryeo directly on an equal footing, although I feel that with adequate preparations, we will be ready to overwhelm them, and finally reduce Goguryeo to a smoldering heap within a few years.”

“Your majesty, we recognize the anger you have towards Goguryeo, but you must also realize that we are on the verge of destroying the Wei and its alliance. Why not clean up the mess to the west, then focus on the barbarians to the east?”

“I see your point, but my fear is that if we spend too much time suppressing the Wei, then we have the potential issue of having to deal with a stronger Goguryeo possessing more concrete holdings in Liaodong. They will also be able to better defend themselves if they take over our border fortifications in the area, and could potentially direct the Wei to conduct specific maneuvers if they feel that they are at a disadvantage.”

“However, Goguryeo could carry out similar plans even if we decided to attack them first. Would it not be better to negotiate with both sides separately in order to buy time?”

“That would also give both sides time to prepare and recover, which could be devastating if their alliances were retained and grew stronger. Of course, the Wei is not in a stable position right now, so its allies might not be willing to combine troops to resist us again. However, it can still remind its neighbors that the Yan is unable to conduct two alliances from opposing directions, and encourage them to prepare for another confrontation, with the hope of Goguryeo simultaneously attacking from the east. I do not think that it is wise to wait if we currently have the advantage, and need to rely on unconfirmed hopes otherwise.”

“But your majesty, I would humbly like to present my insignificant opinion that you might be too rash in making your decision. Although Damdeok is a barbarian, he understands that the people come first, and as a result, they are willing to fight for him. We, on the other hand, have suffered from political turmoil, in which generals were purged, and rulers were overthrown, so the people will be uncertain in undertaking such an endeavor.”

“Have you forgotten what happened to my brother, Murong Bao, when he stalled after defeating the Wei on Canhe Slope? Or when he decided to attack Goguryeo during Damdeok's absence, but failed to send reinforcements when our enemy countered by retaking some of our fortresses? We must regain supremacy in North China, and in order for that to occur, we have to immediately confront our strongest enemy and intimidate the others into surrendering. We cannot vacillate forever, and should have a firm resolve in order to directly confront our enemies. Our backs can never be turned towards the enemy, and negotiations will only buy us time in the short term. We must act now.”

Within the following month, Murong Xi managed to gather 70,000 troops in order to attack Goguryeo.



[1] This saying can literally be parsed as “lift one receive two,” and means accomplishing two deeds with one action. It is taken from the Zhuangzi, which was probably first complied during the Tang Dynasty, although the passages were taken from a philosopher who lived during the Warring States Period.

[2] Archaeological evidence suggests that Gojoseon's territory originally extended to Liaoxi, although attacks from the Yan (Warring States) caused it to withdraw, and relocate its capital to what is now Pyongyang. Although there is no definitive evidence that Gojoseon's original possessions were considered to be lost territory, Goguryeo welcomed many refugees from the latter, along with the existence of the word damul (다물/多勿), or “lost land” in Old Korean, which suggests that a similar viewpoint existed at the time.

[3] The Samguk Sagi does not record any diplomatic communications between Baekje and the Later Yan during Asin's rule IOTL (392-405), but it is reasonable to assume that if the Yan found itself in dire straits, then it would have looked to another state, such as one of Goguryeo's enemies, for help.

[4] The Dai, which preceded the Northern Wei, was established in 310, and eventually became a Former Yan vassal, while Goguryeo began conflicts with the latter around 339.

[5] Hwando Fortress, which was adjacent to the capital, was sacked in 342.
 
(初不得三/초부득삼) [1]

영락/永樂 14-7 (404-7)

After war was formally declared in 404, both the Yan and Goguryeo planned to conduct offensive maneuvers in order to seize more territory, although they also planned to use the border fortifications to withstand sieges if necessary. They also attempted to recover territory which they considered to be rightfully theirs. As neither had amassed a comparable number of troops before, expectations were also running high on both sides, temporarily boosting morale. However, their ultimate objectives were different. The Yan planned to head deep into Goguryeo territory, then sack the capital in order to deprive them of resources, while Goguryeo aimed to seize both the Liaodong and Shandong (山東) peninsulas in order to gain more favorable positions along the coastlines. These approaches ultimately meant that the Yan decided to focus its attacks on one or two fortifications in order to break through the defense, while Goguryeo spread out its forces in order to overwhelm the enemy by coordinating attacks on different regions [2].

Damdeok initially attacked the Yan in November [3], which caught the latter by surprise, as although it had mobilized most of its forces, the sudden change in plans, along with the instability in the west, took the generals another month to transfer them to the east. The soldiers were also undergoing their training exercises when the attack was launched, so the lack of preparation led the Yan to suffer several losses at the outset, eventually losing most of the Liaodong Peninsula, and also causing them to withdraw from the Yan Commandery (燕郡) [4]. Although Murong Xi had expected both sides to clash sometime in the following year, he was shocked to hear that the eastern region had been lost even before he could head to the area, and executed some of his generals for their inability to control the gradually deteriorating situation. Meanwhile, the court finally began to fully support the ruler's decisions due to the urgency of the situation, and began to work together with the army in order to adjust their military strategies. In January of the following year, they finally managed to regain the offensive for the first time in years by attacking Yodong Fortress (요동성/遼東城) [5] in full force.

However, Murong Xi was unable to comprehend that he needed to move as quickly as possible in order to succeed against Goguryeo. Instead, he ordered his men not to climb the walls, and prepare smoothing the path to the gate, so that he could enter triumphantly in his chariot with his consort [6]. This mindset caused the Yan to lessen their attacks in order to make preparations, which led the defenders to strengthen their positions within the fortress without worrying about the enemy entering from the top. Ultimately, the attackers were repelled, and further skirmishes failed as well, causing them to retreat entirely without any gains. On the other hand, Goguryeo began suffering from famine and droughts around July, causing the available crops to temporarily dwindle, and forced them to maintain a mostly strict defensive position in order to conserve resources. Around December, the Yan finally decided to attack Beili, one of Goguryeo's vassals, in order to extract some concessions, but the soldiers became apprehensive about attacking a large number of nomadic calvary, and instead shifted its focus to Mokjeo Fortress (목저성/木抵城) in Goguryeo [7]. However, after marching though three thousand li in freezing conditions, the soldiers were low in morale, and only made half-hearted attempts to assault the fortress before retreating once more.

As Damdeok was determined to break the stalemate and prevent the Yan from becoming a greater threat in the future, he began to plan out a more comprehensive strategy by requesting troops from his vassals as well. This brought the force to 80,000, and after adding those already present within the fortresses, the total came to around 100,000. The ruler then toured the country in order to view the training exercises carried out in numerous regions for several seasons. He also ordered more ships to be constructed, as he planned to attack both the northern and southern regions at the same time, allowing him to venture into Youzhou (幽州), along with the Shandong Peninsula [8]. Meanwhile, he directed some workers to repair the palace, as some of the structures had remained for several decades, and he wanted to impress the mercenaries into devoting their efforts for a state that had access to a significant amount of resources. By the end of the year, preparations had been finalized, and after the generals were assigned to each division, and the individual soldiers gathered within or near Guknae Fortress, the invasion was launched in three waves in January of 407.

The first two waves, each composed of about 40,000 troops [9], simultaneously attacked the Yan from the northeast and southeast, while the remaining 20,000 remained inside the fortresses along the western border, and prepared to send reinforcements. Although the Yan managed to gather more than 90,000 soldiers in order to confront the invaders, they were thoroughly beaten back by the combined attacks from land and sea, and the southern areas were swiftly overrun in less than a month, as the defenders were less concentrated in that region. The numerous purges conducted by the Yan rulers also took their toll, as fear of executions caused many Yan generals to defect to the other side, where they were valued for their knowledge of Yan strategies. Although the continuous battles eventually tired out the coalition by the end of March, and Murong Xi was barely able to hold out after stalemating in a buffer zone around Longcheng (龍城) [10], its former capital, it was the beginning of the end for the Yan. Although the western alliance, now headed by the Tuoba Wei and Later Qin after a brief skirmish between the two, failed to seize more territory due to conflicts among the states, all of the states in North China now ceased to view the Yan as a dominant power after its string of catastrophic defeats.

When the Yan court finally came together after Goguryeo agreed to retreat, all of the members remained silent, causing the ruler to attempt to explain the logic behind his decision, and requested the ministers for their opinions on why the state had been unable to stem the powerful tide. However, most of them either gave terse replies, or requested the ruler to punish them, as they had been unable to foresee the gloom that was now upon them. Unable to understand what went wrong, or agree on a plan for the future, Murong Xi eventually dismissed everyone, failing to notice that some of them had already begun to scheme behind his back. A few months later, his consort passed away, which only worsened the situation, as he greatly mourned her loss to the point that during her funeral, he hugged his deceased wife. He later issued an order to everyone to remain in mourning for days, with the penalty of death, which only convinced the people that his loss was brought on by his costly campaigns. Later, those closest to the ruler noticed that he began to pace around aimlessly while mumbling to himself, and eventually became less and less aware of his surroundings. Rumors eventually began to spread that he was beginning to lose touch with reality, causing the plans for his overthrow to intensify. When Murong Xi later announced plans to leave the capital, Feng Ba (馮跋), a general of Han Chinese descent, staged a coup during his absence, and installed Murong Yun (慕容雲) on the throne. Although the deposed ruler attempted to retake the capital by attacking the north gate, it was ultimately repulsed, and after the army scattered, he was hunted down and executed. He was only 23 years old.



[1] Literally means “first not achieve three”, and an English equivalent would be “third time's the charm.” The origin is unknown, although it is presumably taken from one of the Chinese classics, as many of the sayings have been recorded before the Qin dynasty.

[2] During most, if not all, of the Yan's offensive maneuvers, it sought to attack Goguryeo's capital by bypassing most of the fortresses, which allowed the latter to recover within a few decades, while Gwanggaeto aimed for the long term by systematically capturing most of the fortresses in Liaodong, then passing the Liao River to seize other territory. However, the former method required minimal resources, while Goguryeo's plans required patience in order to achieve its objectives.


[3] While the Yan had continuously attacked Goguryeo during the winter, the latter was used to attacking during the spring or summer, although it never seriously conducted an expedition to the west, so this assault would have been unexpected for the defendants.


[4] This region was located somewhere between the Liao River and what is now Beijing, although the exact region is unknown.


[5] Located in modern-day Liaoyang, Liaoning.


[6] This incident actually occurred IOTL, and was recorded in the Zizhi Tongjian, Book of Jin, and the Samguk Yusa.


[7] Located in modern-day Fushun, Liaoning.


[8] Youzhou was located in what is now the area around Beijing. IOTL, the Shandong Peninsula was occupied by the Southern Yan, which broke off from its northern neighbor soon after its defeat at Canhe Slope, and had cordial relations with Goguryeo.


[9] IOTL, Goguryeo attacked the Yan with 50,000 troops, but would have probably needed more ITTL due to the latter's control over Shandong.


[10] Modern-day Chaoyang, Liaoning.
 
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dont know much about this period but will we see a goguryeo wank? Also does this mean the later joseon dynasty will be butterflied away or will goguryeo fall like in otl?
 
dont know much about this period but will we see a goguryeo wank? Also does this mean the later joseon dynasty will be butterflied away or will goguryeo fall like in otl?

Yes, there will certainly be a Goguryeo wank, although it will be much more reasonable and nothing like the one in my first version, if you read that one. I haven't given much thought to ITTL "Joseon" yet, as its equivalent will be established about a millennium from the events presented in my most recent update. Meanwhile, Goguryeo's fall will be very different, although it will include a similar and very interesting version of the Later Three Kingdoms period.

Anyway, thanks for the reply. I was getting quite lonely here for a while :)
 

FDW

Banned
Yes, there will certainly be a Goguryeo wank, although it will be much more reasonable and nothing like the one in my first version, if you read that one. I haven't given much thought to ITTL "Joseon" yet, as its equivalent will be established about a millennium from the events presented in my most recent update. Meanwhile, Goguryeo's fall will be very different, although it will include a similar and very interesting version of the Later Three Kingdoms period.

Anyway, thanks for the reply. I was getting quite lonely here for a while :)

Though I assume that this is probably going to lead to a larger "Korea" in the long term, right? (I put "Korea" in parenthesis because I don't consider "Korea" to have emerged in the form we know until the state of Goryeo came into existence.)
 
Though I assume that this is probably going to lead to a larger "Korea" in the long term, right? (I put "Korea" in parenthesis because I don't consider "Korea" to have emerged in the form we know until the state of Goryeo came into existence.)

Yes. After another dynasty takes over Goguryeo, it will generally retain the land east of the Liao River and south of the Songhua, along with the entire Korean peninsula, although the rivers might be given different names ITTL. IOTL, I personally don't consider Korea to have ever been unified, at least politically, as Balhae eventually fell to the Liao, although it left Goryeo as the sole remaining Korean state, and I certainly agree that a sharp change in Korean identity as a whole occurred after 936.
 
Any chance they may grab the Southern potion of Outer Manchuria like Balhae did? A Northern border on the Amur would be a very natural boundary and the area would be lightly populated until the 19th Century. The downside is there is not much there at this time. Though, if you follow the Baekje trading path then trade with the Ainu (assuming trade or some POD will make them more advanced/useful trade partner than OTL) and Japan could be done from a northern port in Outer Manchuria, which now makes the area worth holding.
 
Any chance they may grab the Southern potion of Outer Manchuria like Balhae did? A Northern border on the Amur would be a very natural boundary and the area would be lightly populated until the 19th Century. The downside is there is not much there at this time. Though, if you follow the Baekje trading path then trade with the Ainu (assuming trade or some POD will make them more advanced/useful trade partner than OTL) and Japan could be done from a northern port in Outer Manchuria, which now makes the area worth holding.

Well, I didn't think much about this, but I'll keep it in mind.

My original plan was to have Goguryeo and its successors to gradually expand into the eastern reaches of the Amur River, where it meets the Songhua. My reasoning was that because there was really nothing of value further north, and the climate was much colder, Korea wouldn't attempt to actively expand into the area, and would focus more on China instead. I did think about trade with the Ainu, but I was thinking about this occurring through Japan, as the latter would be under Goguryeo occupation/influence.

That said, it would certainly make sense for a Korean state to trade with the Ainu in Sakhalin if the former manages to expand that far north. Regardless of the actual situation, however, contacts between Korea and the Ainu would also probably result in the latter becoming more centralized.

Anyway, thanks for stopping by.
 

FDW

Banned
Yes. After another dynasty takes over Goguryeo, it will generally retain the land east of the Liao River and south of the Songhua, along with the entire Korean peninsula, although the rivers might be given different names ITTL. IOTL, I personally don't consider Korea to have ever been unified, at least politically, as Balhae eventually fell to the Liao, although it left Goryeo as the sole remaining Korean state, and I certainly agree that a sharp change in Korean identity as a whole occurred after 936.

Personally, I think in a very different manner. I think that Goguryeo and it's defacto successor Balhae were ruled by (And ruled at least in part over) a people who were undoubtedly Korean Culturally, but not not Ethno-Linguistically (Though the theoretical language was almost certainly related). And I consider the modern Korean state to have emerged with the state of Goryeo, and not anytime sooner.
 
Personally, I think in a very different manner. I think that Goguryeo and it's defacto successor Balhae were ruled by (And ruled at least in part over) a people who were undoubtedly Korean Culturally, but not not Ethno-Linguistically (Though the theoretical language was almost certainly related). And I consider the modern Korean state to have emerged with the state of Goryeo, and not anytime sooner.

Well, the situation is ambiguous because there is very limited evidence in terms of the "linguistic" and "ethnic" similarities, which are not necessarily clear-cut. After Gojoseon fell, its inhabitants were either absorbed into Buyeo/Goguryeo, or headed south into the peninsula, not to mention that King Jun, after he was overthrown by Wiman, headed south even before that with his loyal followers as well. These population migrations would explain why and how Buyeo, Goguryeo, Baekje, Gaya, and Silla had very closely related languages, as Gojoseon never politically controlled the general area of what would later become the Samhan.

In addition, there are various Goguryeo inscriptions which utilized a form of Proto-Idu, which was a complicated system used to represent Korean words with Chinese characters, suggesting that Silla, and later Goryeo, borrowed the concept from Goguryeo, which would only be possible if the languages were mutually intelligible. Baekje's language was also recorded as virtually identical as that of Goguryeo, and the royal family and aristocrats emigrated from Goguryeo. Also, although the northern dialect(s) might have been more influenced by Tungusic languages, etymological evidence from the Samguk Sagi suggests that they were all essentially dialects of the same language.

Also, up to a million people each probably emigrated south after Goguryeo and Balhae's collapses, not to mention that Wang Geon (Taejo of Goryeo) claimed Goguryeo descent, so while there might have been significant "ethnic" differences between the "north" and "south," they were somewhat mitigated after the migrations took place.
 

FDW

Banned
Well, the situation is ambiguous because there is very limited evidence in terms of the "linguistic" and "ethnic" similarities, which are not necessarily clear-cut. After Gojoseon fell, its inhabitants were either absorbed into Buyeo/Goguryeo, or headed south into the peninsula, not to mention that King Jun, after he was overthrown by Wiman, headed south even before that with his loyal followers as well. These population migrations would explain why and how Buyeo, Goguryeo, Baekje, Gaya, and Silla had very closely related languages, as Gojoseon never politically controlled the general area of what would later become the Samhan.

In addition, there are various Goguryeo inscriptions which utilized a form of Proto-Idu, which was a complicated system used to represent Korean words with Chinese characters, suggesting that Silla, and later Goryeo, borrowed the concept from Goguryeo, which would only be possible if the languages were mutually intelligible. Baekje's language was also recorded as virtually identical as that of Goguryeo, and the royal family and aristocrats emigrated from Goguryeo. Also, although the northern dialect(s) might have been more influenced by Tungusic languages, etymological evidence from the Samguk Sagi suggests that they were all essentially dialects of the same language.

Also, up to a million people each probably emigrated south after Goguryeo and Balhae's collapses, not to mention that Wang Geon (Taejo of Goryeo) claimed Goguryeo descent, so while there might have been significant "ethnic" differences between the "north" and "south," they were somewhat mitigated after the migrations took place.

Well, it's funny you mention the migration south post-Gojoseon. I was going to point that out in regard Silla and Gaya (where there's some evidence that the ruling class may have been outsiders). I also happen to be a believer in the homogenization theory of Korean language in first millennium, where the variety of languages and dialects steadily declined between the Wiman Joseon period and the establishment of Goryeo via numerous internal migrations and relocations of peoples. My belief is that the Goguryeo language became a prestige language in the south, used heavily in the court, but not as much outside of it (In the north on the other hand, it was an everyday language used by all classes, somewhat similar to situation of French in Europe).
 
Well, it's funny you mention the migration south post-Gojoseon. I was going to point that out in regard Silla and Gaya (where there's some evidence that the ruling class may have been outsiders). I also happen to be a believer in the homogenization theory of Korean language in first millennium, where the variety of languages and dialects steadily declined between the Wiman Joseon period and the establishment of Goryeo via numerous internal migrations and relocations of peoples. My belief is that the Goguryeo language became a prestige language in the south, used heavily in the court, but not as much outside of it (In the north on the other hand, it was an everyday language used by all classes, somewhat similar to situation of French in Europe).

Though, I personally agree with Democracy 101 on them being "linguistically" similar languages, the outcome can still be the same even if Gorguryeon and Silli-Gaya are different languages.

If it is like French then the history of England can be a good parallel. After the Norman conquest almost all the Nobles spoke French. In fact one of the most famous English monarchs Richard I "Lionhearted" spoke little to no English. In the end though the English nobility eventually all spoke English.

So, it was quite possible to have a Goguryeon speaking Noble class that is eventually assimilated into a Silla-Gaya speaking populace.


On a side note, since I am assuming WhatIsAUserName is subscribed to this thread, and it is related to the direction this thread is going I wanted to briefly discuss the Baekje "colonies" in China. However, if this turns into a Hi-jack, I will take this offline.

Here are my thoughts and I would like yours and anyone else's feedback? As I am an American of European descendant I am unsure if my understanding actually applies in an Eastern context. I always looked at the Baekje "colonies" in China to be the same as the Venetian "trading colonies" (do not think Cyprus, Crete, or Corfu but Tunis, Alexandria, or Constantinople) in the Med. In the major cities they might have a designated "quarter" or area of the city where they completely control & are mostly populated with their citizens. The might also have "de facto" control of a few minor cities (like they control the economy and/or their marines/soldiers are the local forces), that have good harbors and/or are on good trade route locations.
 
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FDW

Banned
Though, I personally agree with Democracy 101 on them being "linguistically" similar languages, the outcome can still be the same even if Gorguryeon and Silli-Gaya are different languages.

I wasn't talking of them as being radically different. I was thinking two distinct but obviously closely related languages, about as far apart as say, Modern French and Modern Spanish are today.
 
That is what I thought you meant, I am so sorry that did not come across. However, your example better supports what I am saying. English and French have two different branches (yes they are both Indo-European), but one is Germanic and the other Romance. So, in a situation where we are dealing with two languages from the same branch it makes it even more likely that they merge.

Now, this could take a ruler like Sejong to make it happen, but it still can happen. Now, would this "Korean" language match modern Korean as we know it. They could communicate, but they would obviously be different cause they were formed under different events/circumstances.
 
Apologies for the late response.

In terms of the linguistic similarities, some of them are discussed in this journal, but it's extremely long, so feel free to look through it when you have enough time. Ultimately, there is no consensus, although most of the viewpoints suggest that the languages/dialects are related in some way. My hypothesis, which may not necessarily be correct, is that the numerous dialects present across the peninsula represent the presence of regional "languages" further diverging over time, as most of them are not mutually intelligible. On the other hand, the current Seoul dialect is probably descended from a version that was originally spoken by the literary elite, so it would have heavily incorporated Chinese loanwords before other dialects followed suit. In regards to this aspect, Goguryeo probably adopted loanwords from Old Chinese, while Silla adopted ones from Middle Chinese, so there might have been some phonological differences. However, the linguistic evidence present in the Samguk Sagi suggests that most of them were not as significant.

Regarding the changes that occurred over time, I will say that it is virtually impossible to track the differences if the butterflies occur more than 1500 years from the present. For example, within the last century, many of the syllables in Sino-Korean which originally began with a "l" sound have been converted to a null consonant due to vowel assimilation, and some syllables beginning with a "d" shifted to "j"s. The presence of two consonants in the finals of some syllables in Native Korean also suggest that they were pronounced in full in earlier times, although not all of them are pronounced today. As another example, while it is possible to somewhat parse the prologue of the Hunminjeongeum, promulgated by Sejong, without prior knowledge of Middle Korean, it illustrates how some sounds have become obsolete, along with a lot of "y" sounds attached to vowels that have disappeared in Modern Korean. We can only piece together some words in Middle Korean through Idu, Gugyeol, and Hyangchal, written in Chinese characters (no phonology) and mixed with Sino-Korean, and there is very little information on the Korean that was spoken before 936, as the Samguk Sagi (1145) is the oldest extant text with significant information on the Korean language. In other words, even with an earlier unification, we can only assume that the language development will occur on similar lines, and although there might be more "northern" influences, the southerners would probably consist of the majority until the language is standardized, so differences would not be significant.

In terms of Baekje's explorations into Liaoxi and Shandong, designated areas, with some areas of temporary control, would make sense given the fragmented situation of China at the time, as the states in the area would probably have been unable to directly control all of their possessions due to the chaos, and detailed records would have been sparse due to the disorganized situation. However, given that OTL Baekje probably did not make any moves from China during Gwanggaeto or Jangsu's conquests, let alone a military alliance with a Chinese state, its military position was probably tenuous at best. Generally speaking, it would probably also have been difficult for Baekje to attack across the sea from the west due to the distances involved, and it would make more sense to view them as trading centers with limited military presences.
 
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