A clash of waves and steel

I remember some years ago in the early '20 that some nutter had this stupid idea of equipping a ship with aircrafts.
And I do not mean one ot two seaplanes: no, the idiot was talking of dozen of land-planing (well, deck-planing) veichles.
Obiouvsly the idea was a complete failure since difficulties in taking off and landing in such a little, moving, wave-rolling, wet strip were simply too much, and all the navies reverted at building the good old grey ships, the ship-of the-line, mountains of steel and cannons that dominate the seas nowadays.
Of course there are variants, such as the german pocket-battleships and the italian MAS, but the bulk of every marine is nowadays composed of dreadnoughts, cruisers and battleships, with their escorting frigates and destroyers.
Oh, and of course there are submarine to take in account.
But nothing as silly as a aircraft-launching-ship.

It is August 1940.
how do you think the war on the seas will evolve?

I would like to have the opinion of
1) Admiral Yamamoto (and, if possible, could you please repeat that Pearl-Harbour-Surprise-Attack plan?)
2) Doenitz
3) Whoever-the-hell-was-Lord-of-the-Admiralty-of-the-British-Empire
4) Idem-for-the-USA
 
War in Europe (assuming that WW1 plays out the same).

England dominates Germany & Italy on a ship for ship basis. U Boats as IOTL nearly strangle GB. The lack of CVEs will make things tougher until more advanced aircraft capable of flying/patrolling the Atlantic are developed.

War In Asia.

Perhaps the Japs can acheive a Pearl Harbour by Copenhagening the American PacFleet. Then, the Pacific is their oyster;)
 
What the hell "Copenhagening" stands for?
Sinking ships with butter biscuits?

Probably refers to the Battle of Copenhagen when the RN sailed into the Port of Copenhagen where the Danish Fleet were moored, and blasted them!
Nelson led his nine ships against 18 anchored Danish ships, and when ordered to withdraw by c-in-c, Admiral Sir Hyde Parker he held the telescope to his blind eye 'I really do not see the signal'. Hence, the saying turning a 'blind eye'.
 
Probably refers to the Battle of Copenhagen when the RN sailed into the Port of Copenhagen where the Danish Fleet were moored, and blasted them!
Nelson led his nine ships against 18 anchored Danish ships, and when ordered to withdraw by c-in-c, Admiral Sir Hyde Parker he held the telescope to his blind eye 'I really do not see the signal'. Hence, the saying turning a 'blind eye'.

Could that be done at Pearl Harbour?
A fleet approaching at shootingrange without being seen and taking the yankees with their pants down?
or would Yamamoto need a Fleet of Submarines to do that?
 
Could that be done at Pearl Harbour?
A fleet approaching at shootingrange without being seen and taking the yankees with their pants down?
or would Yamamoto need a Fleet of Submarines to do that?

The same damn thing the Royal Navy did against the High Seas Fleet while moored at its base at Wilhelmshaven on November 18th 1918 - basically the single action which triggered the Germany mutiny that lead to the armistice of November 30, 1918 ending the war. The aerial dawn attack of some 40 Royal Naval Air Corps carrier based aircraft and 10 flying boats. Only a handful of German warships were sunk, including the new battleship Bayern, but it was enough to scare the Germans.

I'm surprised that so many people forget about this.

At least the British have continued to experiment with their carriers - Furious, Courageous, Glorious, Vindex, Pegasus and Unicorn.
 
The aerial dawn attack of some 40 Royal Naval Air Corps carrier based aircraft and 10 flying boats. Only a handful of German warships were sunk, including the new battleship Bayern, but it was enough to scare the Germans.


nothing as silly as a aircraft-launching-ship
That's what the thread is about
 
nothing as silly as a aircraft-launching-ship
That's what the thread is about

Plenty of aircraft were launched from ships during the Great War and retrieved. You clearly mentioned the '1920s' and the Royal Navy was planning a carrier based airstrike against the German Fleet as early as late 1918 and early 1919. This same plan they reviewed in considering striking the Italian Navy during the Ethiopian Crisis in the 1930s.
 
Presuming this is a DBWI... it's down right insane. Given various proto-carrier ideas had been floating round PRIOR to WW1 and given the poms had experimented pretty thoroughly with operating land planes from ships during WW2 (up to and INCLUDING the first carrier conversions... admittedly rather clunky ones) the idea that massed use of ship launched aircraft NOT being adopted in near ASB.

Even if we assume everyone is stupid enough to ignore wheeled naval aircraft we're still likely to see large Seaplane carriers operating fair sized airgroups.Now, we won't get as potent attack or fighter aircraft as in OTL but we'll still see airgroups capable of taking pots shots with torps...
 
Presuming this is a DBWI... it's down right insane. Given various proto-carrier ideas had been floating round PRIOR to WW1 and given the poms had experimented pretty thoroughly with operating land planes from ships during WW2 (up to and INCLUDING the first carrier conversions... admittedly rather clunky ones) the idea that massed use of ship launched aircraft NOT being adopted in near ASB.

Even if we assume everyone is stupid enough to ignore wheeled naval aircraft we're still likely to see large Seaplane carriers operating fair sized airgroups.Now, we won't get as potent attack or fighter aircraft as in OTL but we'll still see airgroups capable of taking pots shots with torps...

:D Ah, but the "grey ships" have much more glamour! :D

Anyway, it's not so insane, as:
1) landing is the most difficult part of flying. How about landing on a narrow, short, wave-rolling, wet strip?
2) ships tend to be quite packed with ship-things: wander on a boat and you surely bounce your head on a ship-something whose use is misterious for a landlubber. Thus, a ship should have little or no room to spare for non-ship-things: certainly not for a dozen aircraft, their fuel, ammo, etc.
3) the idea of the "mother-duck" ship and its "ducklings" waterplanes is in principle feasable on a calm, oily water. but what about a tempest?

anyway, apart from the likelyness of the scenario, I was interested on how to achieve a surprise (Pearl Harbour-like) using just ships and/or submarines.
I think the Spaniards did something with frogmen in 1898 (but just one ship, and look what were th consequences), and Italians something in the port of Alexandria in WW2
 
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