A Chinese *Nazism

OK, last one, I swear. But how would a Chinese analogue to *Nazism occur? I suppose that many of the core Nazi tenets aren't all that easily transferable to a non-European country, but I can see some form of a fascist government gaining a toehold of two in China. What would the world look like with a fascist China? How would it affect the major world wars--indeed, would there be any? What would be the reaction of China's neighbors?

One possible POD I have is a Nationalist victory over the Communists during the Civil War, for whatever reason. Perhaps Kai-Shek dies and is replaced by a right-wing fascist or something? I can see an interesting analogue occuring with the West helping the Nationalists to power, but having it coming back and biting them in the face...
 

Oweno

Banned
OK, last one, I swear. But how would a Chinese analogue to *Nazism occur? I suppose that many of the core Nazi tenets aren't all that easily transferable to a non-European country, but I can see some form of a fascist government gaining a toehold of two in China. What would the world look like with a fascist China? How would it affect the major world wars--indeed, would there be any? What would be the reaction of China's neighbors?

One possible POD I have is a Nationalist victory over the Communists during the Civil War, for whatever reason. Perhaps Kai-Shek dies and is replaced by a right-wing fascist or something? I can see an interesting analogue occuring with the West helping the Nationalists to power, but having it coming back and biting them in the face...

The Nationalists led a Military Dictatorship in Taiwan for years.
 
Chinese fascism is easy; Nazism, OTOH, is a bit harder.

The racism bit wouldn't be all that hard, actually. The Han, are, of course the Aryans, with Vietnam, Japan, and Korea (all Chinese influenced) are the other 'Germans'. Foreign barbarians aren't fit to live, you see.
 
The racism bit wouldn't be all that hard, actually. The Han, are, of course the Aryans, with Vietnam, Japan, and Korea (all Chinese influenced) are the other 'Germans'. Foreign barbarians aren't fit to live, you see.

I think what he meant by hard would be said regime surviving the European/American reactions to it. It wouldn't be good, especially if this Chinese Nazism rose in a period where most people in the West believed in the 'Yellow Peril'.
 
Yes I concur. We also have to consider how the economy would react to Nazism, along with the people/environment. That's one of the reasons the Soviet Union fell.
 
The racism bit wouldn't be all that hard, actually. The Han, are, of course the Aryans, with Vietnam, Japan, and Korea (all Chinese influenced) are the other 'Germans'. Foreign barbarians aren't fit to live, you see.

I think they would have to hold a different perspective on the Japanese, I mean if you have Chinese Nazism, it would eventually have to compete with Japanese Nazism, which was the ideology of Imperial Japan and its reason for going to war with China (a feeling of superiority over the Chinese and the desire to rule over East Asia). So, they could look at the Japanese as an offshoot from the pure Chinese racial stock that eventually degenerated due to too much influence from the West and is now in a state of arrogant rebellion against the proper overlords of Asia, the Chinese. Indians and Malays could be looked down upon as a lower breed of Asian but still worthy to be a part of the Chinese Empire, albeit only as slaves and laborers.
 
Whoa, I just had a mental image of me in a PLA officer's uniform and marching through Tokyo amongst some of my colleagues and beating the crap out of bystanders who dare say something bad.

Anyway, seriously, Chinese nazism's feelings could arguably be the main feeling amongst the Han Chinese in the early 1900s, espiecially with all the driving out the foreign devils. Of course, getting it to be amongst the government, I don't think that'll be much of a problem with some PODs. I'm not sure how they'll do amongst the world.
 

Hendryk

Banned
Chinese fascism is easy; Nazism, OTOH, is a bit harder.
I concur with Faeelin. Chinese fascism would simply require taking the authoritarian tendencies of Nationalism a bit further in the 1930s; but it's hard to find in Chinese civilization something that might grow into an analog to Nazism, even if social Darwinism was popular among Chinese intellectuals in the early decades of the 20th century.
 
I concur with Faeelin. Chinese fascism would simply require taking the authoritarian tendencies of Nationalism a bit further in the 1930s; but it's hard to find in Chinese civilization something that might grow into an analog to Nazism, even if social Darwinism was popular among Chinese intellectuals in the early decades of the 20th century.

That's true for most nations. (Though I will say the United States has a greater chance than most places. Why? A highly visible disenfranchised minority) Why do you think China in particular would not be prone to developing a Nazi-style ideology? I could see Chinese attitudes towards Westerners ie "the evil Foreign Devils" developing into a Nazi style ideology where the Chinese are the master race.
 

Hendryk

Banned
That's true for most nations. (Though I will say the United States has a greater chance than most places. Why? A highly visible disenfranchised minority) Why do you think China in particular would not be prone to developing a Nazi-style ideology? I could see Chinese attitudes towards Westerners ie "the evil Foreign Devils" developing into a Nazi style ideology where the Chinese are the master race.
Xenophobia alone (justified as it was in the case of China in the early 20th century) doesn't lead to *Nazism, even with a dollop of social Darwinism. In order to get fascism, you need a dictator, a single-party regime, a powerful state apparatus, a corporate management of national economy and ideological trappings conducive to mass mobilization; as Faeelin observed, China came relatively close to filling all of these conditions in OTL. *Nazism requires more conditions, making it an elusive subcategory of fascism; one thing it needs is a race-based metanarrative in which the nation's very existence is threatened by an enemy within as ubiquitous as it is invisible.

Nazism as it developed in OTL built upon a millennium-old tradition of European anti-Semitism, a mythos of the Jew as the eternal foe of all that is true and good interiorized by a critical mass of the population. China has never had anything remotely resembling such a mythos, and the Chinese's very self-perception as a race rather than a civilizational community only dates from the introduction of Western ideas in the late 19th century; before then the default condition to become Chinese wasn't to belong to a specific ethnicity, but to accept the Chinese civilizational package (much as in the Roman empire, in fact).

Further, another fundamental element of Nazism in OTL was the heritage of romanticism, a cultural movement entirely without equivalent in China.
 
If there could be such a thing, Chinese Nazism would be aimed internally rather than externally. It would come from some belief that somehow the Chinese race had become degenerate and need to be improved through selective breeding. Where as Maoists tried to radically change Chinese culture with new culture. Chinese Nazis would try to change culture and eugenics. It would be something along the lines of the Cultural Revolution with an eugenic breeding program. Those with "superior" traits would be encouraged to have multiple children. One child policy for everyone else.

Pre-1900 Chinese history would have to be considerably different and more traumatic for this to be plausible.
 

Hendryk

Banned
Pre-1900 Chinese history would have to be considerably different and more traumatic for this to be plausible.
More traumatic than two opium wars, half a dozen insurgencies, losing hundreds of thousands of square kilometers of territory to Russia, having your sphere of influence colonized by Western powers or annexed by Japan, all this while your country falls apart because of mismanagement, budgetary crisis and drug addiction? Not to mention the cherry on the cake, a civil war that lasts for two decades, lays waste to a third of the country and kills 20 million people...
 
More traumatic than two opium wars, half a dozen insurgencies, losing hundreds of thousands of square kilometers of territory to Russia, having your sphere of influence colonized by Western powers or annexed by Japan, all this while your country falls apart because of mismanagement, budgetary crisis and drug addiction? Not to mention the cherry on the cake, a civil war that lasts for two decades, lays waste to a third of the country and kills 20 million people...

Maybe if China was fully colonized and divided among the Europeans and Japanese.
 
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