A Change Of Heart: Spain Joins The Allies

I know they had little to gain by joining either side, but WI at some point during the war Franco saw the writing on the wall and joined the Allies?

Would an Allied victory have had a more positive effect in bringing democracy to Spain earlier after the war? What about the legacy of the Spanish Civil War? Also any Spanish claims to Gibraltar, etc?

Just a thought...
 
Franco always wanted more. Maybe he jumps into the war on the Allied side to gain Lybia. Furthermore it might bring Spain away from Fascism, however it won't turn truly democratic until Franco is no longer in power. Maybe it becomes a regular, conservative dictatorship.

Regarding Gibraltar: Spain will still want it and if Spain has a better reputation there might be a plebiscite in favor of Spain.
 
There were many progerman factions in Franco's government for a consistent pro-allied policy to be undertaken; and too little realistic gains. Besides, the spanish army would be more of a burden for the allies than anything else, since they'd have to be resupplied almost from scratch.

If you want something really bizarre, though, have Spain declaring war on Japan after the japanese massacred the remaining spanish population in Manila and sending maybe a few destroyers or marines to the Pacific.

Franco always wanted more.

Nope. He wanted absolute, unchecked power for as long as he lived, and he already got that.
 
Franco always wanted more. Maybe he jumps into the war on the Allied side to gain Lybia. Furthermore it might bring Spain away from Fascism, however it won't turn truly democratic until Franco is no longer in power. Maybe it becomes a regular, conservative dictatorship.

Regarding Gibraltar: Spain will still want it and if Spain has a better reputation there might be a plebiscite in favor of Spain.

Even when Spain was a democracy Gibraltar voted to stay with Britain overwhelmingly.
 
If you want something really bizarre, though, have Spain declaring war on Japan after the japanese massacred the remaining spanish population in Manila and sending maybe a few destroyers or marines to the Pacific.

A Blue fleet fighting the Japanese whilst the Blue division is still on the Eastern Front? That would be a tricky diplomatic game to say the least.

Also the fatc that the Blue division exists or existed at the time of this alliance will really turn the Allies off Franco. The potential alliance could be devastating for Allied-Soviet relations.
 
Even when Spain was a democracy Gibraltar voted to stay with Britain overwhelmingly.

That was after decades of hostility; Franco closed land access to Gibraltar in 19... er... 68? Maybe 1969. He wanted to isolate Gibraltar, possibly with the idea Britain would eventualll grow tired of suppliing its "colony". By the time democracy returned, Gibraltar's pro-britain and anti-spanish position was pretty much a given.

40 years of good relations, with a good percentage of gibraltarese working in Algeciras, owning summer homes in Benidorm, married to spaniards, etc., and the vote could be very different.
 
That was after decades of hostility; Franco closed land access to Gibraltar in 19... er... 68? Maybe 1969. He wanted to isolate Gibraltar, possibly with the idea Britain would eventualll grow tired of suppliing its "colony". By the time democracy returned, Gibraltar's pro-britain and anti-spanish position was pretty much a given.

40 years of good relations, with a good percentage of gibraltarese working in Algeciras, owning summer homes in Benidorm, married to spaniards, etc., and the vote could be very different.


You mean about 440 yes votes (out of approx 12,000) instead of 44?
 

Goldstein

Banned
Still why did the brits insist to occupy spanish teritory?

Come on, because it's not. It was rightfully given in a treaty, and constantly legitimized by its population. The question is why our government is too blind to accept the facts. Claiming Cuba would be less stupid in comparison.

Back to the thread topic, I've though a lot about this, and if I ever start a TL, there are strong chances it would be about this. There are, indeed, problems for this to happen, but it's not completely impossible.

There are the alleged American pressures to scare the Francoist regime making it think an Allied invasion was close, as well as the 1944 embargo, mostly directed to stop the tungsten supplies to Germany. Also, early Francoism was much more caracterized by international lip service than for its pro-German stance. A different war minister in the right moment could well cover the challenge.

The post-war consequences would be felt very soon. From the greater Soviet-American hostility to a Francoist regime that could enjoy a Marshall plan and international recognition from the start, the Cold War dynamics and doctrines would be substantially altered.
 
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Come on, because it's not. It was rightfully given in a treaty, and constantly legitimized by its population. The question is why our government is too blind to accept the facts. Claiming Cuba would be less stupid in comparison.

It was given "rightfully given in a treaty" after invading a country because they didn´t like the new king ( too French for they liking ) is not what you call the best of the reasons ... lets say clearly, the Brits looked at that nice strategic position (like Minorca ) and as always they took advantage of the situation. After all you cant be the most powerful empire in the world by being nice ...

And although the treaty is clear, it also specifies that if Gibraltar stops being British, it reverts to Spain, so those who want to be independent ( quite a lot more than those who want to be Spanish :p ) have a "little" problem too
 
Meh. Sovereignity is not a big deal now that we're all in the Union; and we ceded Gibraltar lawfully in a treaty anyway. Let the brits keep it if that makes them happy; poor guys aren't really boding well with post-imperial status.

What Britain should do (but is not going to) is to stop using soverignity as an excuse to protect smugglers and harass spanish law enforcement in Algeciras Bay. I am not even asking them to stop Gibraltar's status as a tax heaven with more registered enterprises than habitants.
 
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