A Central Powers Japan

[Snowstalker]

What if Japan, deciding that more was to be gained from attacking Russian, British, and French territories in Asia than taking what little Germany had on the continent? Obviously the Anglo-Japanese alliance presents a problem here, but would Japan have been willing to turn on Britain for territorial gain? Given that the Entente has its hands full with Germany and Austria, does Japan effectively have free reign in this front?

 

[Flayer]

No, as the Royal Navy most certainly does not have its hands full and the IJN is proportionately a lot weaker against the European navies than it was in 1941. Not that it would be easily defeated, but Japan will not be taking Singapore. This also opens up a chance for the Allies to bring China into the war, to reverse the humiliations inflicted by the 1905 Sino-Japanese war. Japan will have to fight both the British-supported Chinese and the Russians on the mainland and contend with the Allied navies at sea. If they ever get to Indochina or Malaya, the Empire will have plenty of Indian and ANZAC troops to call upon in addition to its existing forces.

Overall though, it does create some significant butterflies. If the RN has to divert substantial firepower to the Pacific naval campaign, it lessens the odds against the High Seas Fleet in Europe. The German Pacific cruiser squadron will probably relocate to Japan and survive much longer. Indian and ANZAC troops will also be diverted away from the European theater, which will be a mercy for them as far as having no Gallipoli.

 

[Southpaw]

Could the Rn send a large enough squadron to defeat the IJN?

 

[Flayer]

The four Kongo-class battlecruisers were the only really modern Japanese capital shpis. The IJN was certainly a powerful regional navy but it wasn't a world-class one yet. The British certainly have enough ships to send to defeat/contain Japan's, but what is more interesting is if sending those ships weakens the home fleet enough for the German navy to get more aggressive.

 

[The Gunslinger]

You have to find a reason for Japan to join the CP. The UK, Russia and to a lesser extent France all have forces in the area, Japan might be stretched trying to conquer the South Pacific and keeping the Russians busy in Manchuria.

Plus, in OTL, the Japanese made off like bandits for not having a big overall impact on the conflict.

 

[elkarlo]

Could the Rn send a large enough squadron to defeat the IJN?

Oh easily.

Wonder what Japanese ship production was during WWI?

 

[BlondieBC]

Could the Rn send a large enough squadron to defeat the IJN?

Yes, the Royal Navy lost as many capital ships in WW1 as it had in WW2. Now the RN might chose to send an inadequate force, but it would require a choice.

What if Japan, deciding that more was to be gained from attacking Russian, British, and French territories in Asia than taking what little Germany had on the continent? Obviously the Anglo-Japanese alliance presents a problem here, but would Japan have been willing to turn on Britain for territorial gain? Given that the Entente has its hands full with Germany and Austria, does Japan effectively have free reign in this front?

I really can't see Japan just deciding to join the CP without some other POD that makes the CP look like it is winning very early on in the first two weeks of the war. France would have a hard time making that big of a mistake, so would Russia. It is hard to see Japan staying neutral with so many easy German colonies to take.

The only way I can come close is the UK does not join the war until it is clear Russia or France has lost the war, but then WW1 looks nothing like OTL.

 

[Devolved]

What if Japan, deciding that more was to be gained from attacking Russian, British, and French territories in Asia than taking what little Germany had on the continent? Obviously the Anglo-Japanese alliance presents a problem here, but would Japan have been willing to turn on Britain for territorial gain? Given that the Entente has its hands full with Germany and Austria, does Japan effectively have free reign in this front?

I think the Americans would come into the war as Japanese expansion would threaten their open door policy to China and the Far East generally. It would also reinforce the impression to the Americans that their own security was at stake and that they should act now rather than face being in a German/Japanese sandwich.

The RN was actually overstretched in late 1914 and it was only after the destruction of von Spee's squadron that things became more settled. If the Japanese joined then the British do have a problem. They would lose their Chinese possessions quickly and Singapore would be threatened.

 

[Rubicon]

Oh easily.

Wonder what Japanese ship production was during WWI?

1911 -01-17 Kongō is laid down at Barrow-in-Furness in Great Britain


1911-11-04 Hiei is laid down at Yokusuka Naval Arsenal


1912-03-11 Fusō is laid down at Kure Naval Arsenal


1912-03-17 Kirishima is laid down at Mitsubishi Shipyards in Nagasaki


1912-05-18 Kongō is launched


1912-03-16 Haruna is laid down at Kawasaki Shipyards in Kobe


1912-11-04 Hiei is launched


1913-08-16 Kongō is commissioned


1913-11-20 Yamashiro is laid down at Yokusuka Naval Arsenal


1913-12-01 Kirishima is launched


1913-12-14 Haruna is launched


1914-03-28 Fusō is launched


1914-08-04 Hiei is commissioned


1915-04-19 Kirishima is commissioned
1915-04-19 Haruna is commissioned


1915-05-10 Ise is laid down at Kawasaki Shipyards in Kobe


1915-05-15 Hyūga is laid down at Mitsubishi Shipyards in Nagasaki


1915-11-03 Yamashiro is launched


1915-11-18 Fusō is commissioned


1916-11-12 Ise is launched


1917-01-27 Hyūga is launched


1917-03-31 Yamashiro is commissioned


1917-08-28 Nagato is laid down at Kure Naval Arsenal


1917-12-15 Ise is commissioned


1918-04-30 Hyūga is commissioned


1918-06-01 Mutsu is laid down at Yokusuka Naval Arsenal

 

[elkarlo]

1911 -01-17 Kongō is laid down at Barrow-in-Furness in Great Britain


1911-11-04 Hiei is laid down at Yokusuka Naval Arsenal


1912-03-11 Fusō is laid down at Kure Naval Arsenal


1912-03-17 Kirishima is laid down at Mitsubishi Shipyards in Nagasaki


1912-05-18 Kongō is launched


1912-03-16 Haruna is laid down at Kawasaki Shipyards in Kobe


1912-11-04 Hiei is launched


1913-08-16 Kongō is commissioned


1913-11-20 Yamashiro is laid down at Yokusuka Naval Arsenal


1913-12-01 Kirishima is launched


1913-12-14 Haruna is launched


1914-03-28 Fusō is launched


1914-08-04 Hiei is commissioned


1915-04-19 Kirishima is commissioned
1915-04-19 Haruna is commissioned


1915-05-10 Ise is laid down at Kawasaki Shipyards in Kobe


1915-05-15 Hyūga is laid down at Mitsubishi Shipyards in Nagasaki


1915-11-03 Yamashiro is launched


1915-11-18 Fusō is commissioned


1916-11-12 Ise is launched


1917-01-27 Hyūga is launched


1917-03-31 Yamashiro is commissioned


1917-08-28 Nagato is laid down at Kure Naval Arsenal


1917-12-15 Ise is commissioned


1918-04-30 Hyūga is commissioned


1918-06-01 Mutsu is laid down at Yokusuka Naval Arsenal

That is more than I thought. I didn't think the Japanese navy really upped their production until the 1920's. Thanks

 

[David S Poepoe]

One also has to take into account a percentage of the Kongo classes armament, turbines, etc. were imported. The Kongo was entirely British built, but her sisterships were increasingly 'made in Japan'.

 

[cbr]

Japan joining the CP is pretty much ASB unless there is a POD further back. At this time the Anglo-Japanese alliance was still up and running.