A Cannae in the West: Destruction of French 5th Army (1914)

Note that the second map gives a false impression of German Fourth Army's situation. It looks like Albrecht's right is pressing on Givet and Fumay. Actually, according to Zuber, Albrecht's leading corps on the right, VIII Armee Korps, was roughly "halfway between Bastogne and Givet" on the 22nd, marching westward to assist the left-hand corps of Third Army.

Furthermore, Albrecht is about to be very busy smashing French attacks from the south (which he manages quite handily).

I point this out just to show that, if anyone is going to get across the Meuse behind Fifth Army from 22-24 Aug, it will have to be von Hausen, although he might get some help from VIII AK by 24 or 25Aug.

Yes it has to be von hausen, there is nobody else . Apparently he was a bit of a pain to work with during the campaign, relectant to do much to help the other armies without direct and clear orders.
 
Yes it has to be von hausen, there is nobody else . Apparently he was a bit of a pain to work with during the campaign, relectant to do much to help the other armies without direct and clear orders.

Weird. And not helpful, if the Germans are to bag Fifth Army! Seems like one of the big problems the German Army had was the presence of too many primadonna generals.
 
Yes it has to be von hausen, there is nobody else . Apparently he was a bit of a pain to work with during the campaign, relectant to do much to help the other armies without direct and clear orders.

You describe a lot of Army Commanders, Prussian-German military tradition had a great deal of independence of field commanders. Von Kluck of 1st army for example ignored von Bülow's instructions even though the later was placed above him. It wasn't till army groups were formally created that things worked better.

Weird. And not helpful, if the Germans are to bag Fifth Army! Seems like one of the big problems the German Army had was the presence of too many primadonna generals.

Its a problem to all armies but it was the curse and gift of the German army that officers would at all levels take matters into their own hands. It allowed the German army to react very quickly as the OOAD loop was very short as commanders would rarely dither waiting for instruction. If given any type of choice you could expect a German commander to attack if the enemy was in front of him and there was any type of opening.

3rd army doesn't need to closely coordinate with 2nd. Just have to continue with advance and detect French units to their west and the Germans natural inclination to attack would cover the rest.
 
You describe a lot of Army Commanders, Prussian-German military tradition had a great deal of independence of field commanders. Von Kluck of 1st army for example ignored von Bülow's instructions even though the later was placed above him. It wasn't till army groups were formally created that things worked better.



Its a problem to all armies but it was the curse and gift of the German army that officers would at all levels take matters into their own hands. It allowed the German army to react very quickly as the OOAD loop was very short as commanders would rarely dither waiting for instruction. If given any type of choice you could expect a German commander to attack if the enemy was in front of him and there was any type of opening.

3rd army doesn't need to closely coordinate with 2nd. Just have to continue with advance and detect French units to their west and the Germans natural inclination to attack would cover the rest.

The Germans half recognised the old mxim armies march seperately but fight together wasn't quite appropriate when creating a continuous line of armies that they needed the Army Group level of command by putting Kluck under Bulow on and off during the campaign. An Army Group commander would have given Hausen the kick up the arse he needed to push into the opportunity in front of him. In addition I believe the Army Group commander would have had his finger on the pulse of the right wing and supported Klucks hard charging for the flanks by giving Bulow a kick up the arse too. (I like Kluck)
 
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