A Brother’s Betrayal

Valdemar II

Banned
I forgot to mention in reply of Valdemar II that the eastern part of Luxemburg, the German part, isn't part of the kingdom of Holland. It is part of the kingdom of the Rhine, the territory the former rulers of Saxony got when Prussia annexed all of Saxony.

We really need a map of TTL. I will even offer making it for me if you can make a describtion.
 
We really need a map of TTL. I will even offer making it for me if you can make a describtion.

I am horrible at making maps, so I won't try (I have on my computer a map i don't dare to post in the new map thread, I am afraid i will kill Krall with it).
But if you want to create one please go ahead.

The kingdom of Holland is basicly the Netherlands and Belgium and East Frisia. There are some more differences, slightly different borders with France and Germany through butterflies, (Bouillon isn't Dutch, neither are Arlon or Eupen-Malmedy; there is no gap in what is now Limburg, Geldern is Dutch) but to make it easier for you just use OTL Belgian and Dutch borders.
The Netherlands is part of the confederation of German states.
France lost Corsica to Sardinia (and a lot of colonies to Britain) and Elsace to the former stadholder of the Netherlands, who also retained Nassau and got most of the duchy of Berg (northern part of the rhine next to nassau).

Prussia got all of Saxony, but not the (southern) Rhineland, this went to former rulers of Saxony (and includes what is now the country of Luxemburg). Prussia also got the southern part Munster and the Northern part of the Rhineland.

Hannover got the most of Westphalia, the northern part of Munster and the southern part of Oldenburg.

Oldenburg got the territory between themselves and the Netherlands (which were part of Hannover OTL) but of course not East-Frisia or Jever, which are Dutch.

Those are the most important changes, the rest is basicly like OTL.
 

Valdemar II

Banned
Was it something like this you imagined?

I have give Netherland the department Nord, beside that Belgian Luxembourg has ended up in Wettin hands, northen Berg ended up Prussian to create a clear coridor between Prussian east and west Rhineland, Denmark kept Swedish Vorpommern (Rügen) because they didn't Lauenburg.

Beside that ignore Krall, you only become better at mapmaking by practice and constructive critic which Krall lack the tact to do.

A brother betrayel.PNG
 
I have give Netherland the department Nord, beside that Belgian Luxembourg has ended up in Wettin hands,

I would prefer you changed departement Nord back to France and Belgian Luxemburg to Holland (not Netherlands btw, but that isn't relevant for the map) as I had the crownprince die in what is now Belgian Luxemburg. Give the Prussian part between Nassau and the Netherlands to the Wettins as compensation. As compensation for the Prussians give them part of southern Hannover.

Also that tiny bit of Oldenburg next to East Frisia (I believe it is called Jever) should be Dutch. It was rewarded by Napoleon to Louis's Holland at the same time as East Frisia.

northen Berg ended up Prussian to create a clear coridor between Prussian east and west Rhineland,
Ok, sounds reasonable

Denmark kept Swedish Vorpommern (Rügen) because they didn't Lauenburg.
Can you give Lauenburg to Denmark? It would make my plans for the German future easier if Pommeren is in German hands.


The rest of the map looks great
Beside that ignore Krall, you only become better at mapmaking by practice and constructive critic which Krall lack the tact to do.
Nah, it is a horrible map and I know it. I just use it as a guideline for an rpg i DM.
 
I like it.

I wonder if the revolt will see the end of the United Netherlands will Bonaparte rule survining in the South and the North under Orange-Nassau.
 
An update, about Africa this time.

Southern Africa

With the help of the Dutch the British established two major settlements in the eastern part of south Africa, Port Rex on the Buffalo river and Fort Natalia at the bay of Natal. Even though there were some troubles with hostile natives, Port Rex managed to thrive. Fort Natalia on the other hand had a lot of trouble with the zulu natives and barely expended beyond the fort. Fearing the loss of Fort Natalia, another outpost was created on the southern part of Madagascar at Toliary, a place were centuries earlier the English had created a failed settlement.

In the Dutch cape colony the Colonists, who often called themselves Afrikaners in their local Dutch dialect, had been at first very happy when the colony had been returned to the Netherlands. After years of mismanagement by the VOC and later the occupation by the British things finally looked better for them, or at least that was what they thought. At first this was true, the Dutch king Louis I had appointed a new governor, but mainly led the colonist be. The cape colony grew as new Dutch people settled there, hoping for a new and better life. This started to change when Louis I had died and his son had become king of Holland. Many Dutch were unhappy to have him as king, especially protestants. Many decided to settle in the Cape colony. Unhappiness about the new king spread, certainly as another governor was appointed, who tried to enforce the rule of the king more strongly on the colony. Because of this and the growing population, many Afrikaners decided to move north. The great trek had started. New villages were started near and beyond the Orangeriver and towards the river Vaal, some even crossed the Vaal. villages and farms rose at places that technically belonged to the British, although British influence did not reach that far north. They still considered themselves citizens of the kingdom of Holland, at least as long as the Dutch representatives would not bother them.
 
I like it.

These events in Africa show how dangerous the current monarch is to the order. The situation for Bonaparte rule will likey continue to degenerate.

I predict that a rebellion will break out in the Hinterlands and spread to the Cape as the colonists choose to support their Fellow Affikaners against whatever harsh reaction the King partakes in.

The monery and lives wasted in the Cape Rebellion will only add to discontentat home, mainly in the Dutch lands. 1848 or some such events will unfold with a popular Dutch revolt against Bonaparte rule.

Predicted result:

End of United Kingdom of Holland.

Compromise between conservatives and liberals in Dutch territories sees the House of Orange-Nassau enthroned with strict constituutional limits on monarch.

Kingdom of Belgium formed in the south from non dutch portions of the old Kingdom. King Lodewijk II aabdicates in favor of his son snd is banned from regency.

Cape Town and other coastal regions opt to compromise with new Dutch Kingdom. The longer struggling Afrikaners of the interior are recognized as independent Republic/s.

That is my prediction.
 
The end of the German Confederation

Since the end of the Napoleonic wars the German confederation was dominated by the two major powers within it, Prussia and Austria, while some of the smaller powers, Bavaria, Holland, Hannover and the kingdom of the Rhine had been able to balance the two. In the early 1840’s this had changed. After the king of Bavaria, Ludwig I, had unexpectedly died in 1829, his son Maximillian II had succeeded him. He proved to be a bit of an Austrophile and often took the Austrian standpoint in German matters. Hannover started to focus more and more on Britain, especially when it became clear that that the personal union would continue after a male successor was born. Holland under Louis II had effectively retreated from the confederation and was only in name a member.

When Austria started to focus more on the confederation, hoping that with the help of Bavaria it would be able to dominate it. Because of this, it started to neglect the non-German parts of Austria. Slowly the tensions between Austria and Prussia rose, until in 1842 after a minor incident over tariffs, Prussia had enough and decided to leave to German Confederation. Only a couple of days later Prussia’s most important ally within the confederation, Nassau-Alsace, left it too. Fearing that the confederation would be entirely dominated by Austria most other minor powers left, Hannover, the Rhine Kingdom and Holland (Dutch nationalists called it “the only good thing king Louis II ever did”). The many German nationalists within the leaving nations were angry, as they hoped that the German Confederation would be the first step in reuniting Germany. As a way to appease these nationalists Prussia decided to found its own German organisation, the League of German Nations. Nassau-Alsace was the first to join and so did various other German states, who preferred Prussia to Austria. Holland, Hannover and the Kingdom of the Rhine remained outside both organisations, deciding they didn’t want to be ruled either by Austria or Prussia. Holstein, in personal union with Denmark, didn’t join either organisation.
 
Last edited:
Interesting.

The maitenance of the Anglo-Hanoverian Union is enormous. Though I imagine Hanover has more than its fair share of German Nationalists sionce their dynasty has become so British since George III.

The Rhine is a new factor.

I take it Munich is acting as Vienna's junior partner in the south? Any chance of two major German Empires emerging from this?

Holland is in an odd position. I am starting to think that the revolt will become more of a civil war. Does Louis II have any children he could abdicate in favor of at this point?
 
The maitenance of the Anglo-Hanoverian Union is enormous. Though I imagine Hanover has more than its fair share of German Nationalists sionce their dynasty has become so British since George III.
German nationalists in Hannover aren't happy with the continued personal union or with the fact that Hannover belongs to neither German organisation, but German nationalists anywhere aren't happy with what happened.

I take it Munich is acting as Vienna's junior partner in the south?
Yeah, that is more or less correct. I will not tell if it leads to two Germanies or something like that, because I don't want to spoil anything and I changed too many things I have planned already.

Holland is in an odd position. I am starting to think that the revolt will become more of a civil war. Does Louis II have any children he could abdicate in favor of at this point?

The next update (whenever that will happen) will be about the situation in Holland.
 
The second Dutch revolt

King Louis II of Holland was far from popular in his own country. Many Dutch speaking citizens resented him, because he was mainly focussed on the southern, more French part of Holland. This lead to a lot of unrest in the northern and larger part of the country. It was a surprise for many, and certainly the king himself, that the revolt that would topple him did not start in the Dutch speaking north, but in the south.

The southern part of Holland had profited from the attention it got from the king, of the peace since 1814 and the large coal deposits. This lead to a strong industrial growth, which combined with the ports in the western parts of Holland and the Dutch colonial market lead to an economic growth of Wallonia. This increased the number of wealthy and middleclass people living there and they were unhappy too. King Louis II might not have been an absolute monarch in the traditional sense, but according to most people it was close enough. A parliament (the Estate-General) existed, but the king appointed all members and it barely had any power. Next to the king usually only his friends had any influence. Most people who got rich in the industrial revolution barely got any influence at all. The middle and lower classes had none.

In 1850 the people in Liege were unhappy about their major, a corrupt friend of the king. He had squandered a lot of city funds on a lot senseless projects which had made him and his friends richer, but had accomplished little. Because the treasury was almost empty he decided to raise taxes, which for a lot citizens had been the last drop. They deposed the major and arrested him for fraud. The king did not want to let that happen to his friend and sent the army to Liege to restore order. One thing the king forgot was that, because of fear for a northern rebellion and because of nepotism, most critical positions in the army were occupied by Walloons, many from Liege. When they entered Liege and the Liegeois weren’t intimidated by the army, the army refused to fire upon the citizens.

Quickly the revolt spread. In Verviers, Mons, Charleroi and even Brussels, the residence of the king, many liberals protested the lack of freedom and the corruption of the regime. But nowhere the revolt spread as fast as in the northern Netherlands. From Maastricht to Amsterdam, from Antwerp to Groningen, within weeks the entire country was on fire. The king had no authority anymore in the Dutch speaking parts and many Walloon cities, especially the more industrialised ones had joined the north. As had been clear in Liege, the king could no longer trust his own army and even in his own city the people revolted. So he fled Brussels to Dinant, a city still under control of his supporters.

The moment the Louis left Brussels everything fell apart from him. Seeing the king flee a large majority of the army switch sides to the rebels. Most cities that had remained loyal to the king (or where the revolt had been crushed) switched sides and quickly all of Holland renounced the king. All colonies, who where for the most part run by Dutch speaking Dutch renounced him. Especially in the Cape colony this was celebrated as a liberation and the governor of the colony was lynched by an angry mob. Seeing his hopeless situation the king left Dinant and fled to France, hoping to find supporters here and convince Louis XIX, the king of France, to intervene in the Netherlands and restore him to the throne of Holland. Louis XIX refused. He had heard various rumours that Louis II was planning on gaining the throne of France for himself and he would be more harmless as a failed king than as a king of the rich country of Holland.

[FONT=&quot]From all over the country the leaders of the Dutch revolt gathered in Brussels to create an provisional government. Many things were discussed. Should Holland remain a kingdom? The ruler of Nassau-Alsace, the grandson of the last stadholder had already travelled to Brussels to convince the government to appoint him king. But the Dutch liberals decided that they did want to trade in one monarch for another, Holland would become a republic again. But Holland would not remain Holland. Many people not from the old province of Holland were bothered by the name, in search for a new name various other names were suggested: The Batavian republic, The Belgian republic, but in the end the Republic of the Netherlands was chosen, the old name of both the northern and the southern part of the country. Elections were planned, both for a new president and for a new Estate-General. Everybody who paid enough taxes was allowed to vote. International recognition of the new regime came relatively quickly. Prussia and its League of German nations were the first to recognise them, which came together with an invitation to join the League (which was declined). They figured that even a republic was better than a kingdom ruled by a Bonaparte. Soon Austria followed, including (a quickly declined) offer to join the German confederation. Next was the USA and soon most countries recognised the new situation in the Netherlands.
[/FONT]
 
I like it, it seems reasonable, while most monarchies won't like that Netherlands has become a republic, I think most would like the fact that they have gotten rid of the Bonapartes.

I agree with that, better a republic than a Boneparte would be what most would think i reckon.

Will the Bonaparte's make a return in Holland?
 
The 50’s revolutions: Hanover

From the Netherlands the revolutionary spirit spread over Europe, affecting some countries harder than others. In some it had the form of a liberal revolution, in some the form of a nationalistic revolution, in some, like in Holland both. Great-Britain remained quiet. It did not remember their republican past fondly and as it was a parliamentairy kingdom it already had enough liberal influences to keep them quiet. Its dependency Hannover was a different story. In personal union with Great-Britain, the king, William V, ruled almost as an absolute monarch. In the past many British considered their Hanoverian kings Germans, but the roles were reversed. The Hanoverians were ruled by British and British who didn’t care about them, except their money.

This bothered many German nationalists living in the country. When Hanover left the German Confederation and didn’t join the League of German Nations they felt it as another heavy blow, as they had hoped the confederation was the first step towards a united Germany. When their Dutch neighbours revolted against their “French” king and manage to defeat him, they saw it as a sign that something similar could happen in Hanover. So they revolted, effectively.

So the King of Hannover reacted. Because the British parliament did wish to get involved, William funded his army out of his own and Hanoverian resources struck back hard. Too hard according to some. The streets of Hanover coloured red with the blood of German nationalists and liberals. The British parliament and population was horrified. People started calling the king William the Bloody. But even with all the blood spilled, the king was fighting a losing battle. While he was losing his support in Britain, the British parliament and in Hannover, he was losing his money and still the fight was hard. The British parliament still refused to give him any funds for his continental adventure and started to push him to make a deal. The king of Prussia came with a solution. To satisfy the German nationalists Hanover would join the League of German nations and, while William would remain king, after his death the personal union between Great-Britain and Hanover would end. King William was forced to accept or risk losing even more.
 
Top