A Britain of Panthers and Lions: House of Oldenburg Britain

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by VVD0D95, Mar 4, 2018.

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  1. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    She is indeed! I've been meaning for a way to get the Berwicks more involved, and I think you've just given me the perfect way to do so! Thanks :)
     
  2. Valena Well-Known Member

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    I was thinking of one of those quasi-Royal duchesses replacing failed Abigail, but Diana is attending Caroline, and Ruperta's TTL husband is a stauch Whig, who was not getting along with Anne OTL (both Duchesses are rather nice ladies in their own right, which is what Anne needs in her sunset years).
     
  3. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Definitely perhaps the wife of the duke of graft on?
     
  4. Valena Well-Known Member

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    Isabella Bennet is a nice person (and her husband being Vice-Admiral of Britain (or even Admiral now that Prince-Consort George, the Duke of Cumberland died) is an additional bonus - he is likely to get along with James, which cannot be said about Duke of St.Albans).
     
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  5. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Definitely! And of course having more Tory influence around Anne can’t hurt.

    I do wonder if I’ve made the governments too Tory dominated
     
  6. Valena Well-Known Member

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    Regarding the Duke of St.Albans, appointment as British ambassador to Hanover is an interesting removal of troublesome Lord from the court (especially since TTL he is married to the niece of Electress Sophia).
     
  7. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Oh interesting I had not thought of that. Would Masham abd Albans get on?
     
  8. Valena Well-Known Member

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    The wiki says that he was a Whig symathizer and this prevented his advancement to high court honors under Anne. Though whether he was a radical or a moderate like his TTL father-in-law is unknown.
     
  9. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Alright interesting and of course Harley was a firmer Whig so there could be tied there
     
  10. Threadmarks: Chapter 146: Masham's Dance

    VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Chapter 146: Masham’s Dance



    February, 1711


    Sometimes, Abigail marvelled at how quickly she had risen. She had joined the court nine years ago, starting off as her cousin’s lady in waiting and then the Queen had noticed her, and now here she was, Keeper of the Privy Purse, and the chief lady of the bedchamber in all but name. Her rise had been something shocking to her, almost like her cousin’s rise all those years ago. Except there was one difference. Her cousin had pushed the Queen away, Abigail had no intention of ever doing that. Though she increasingly found the Queen to be repellent and somewhat disgusting, she stuck through it, and used the Queen’s love for her for her advantage and that of her husband’s.

    And now, it seemed that she had been handed a boon by her greatest rival. The Prince of Wales, the Queen’s own son. She cleared her throat and looked at the letter that had arrived that morning. “Sire, this is most concerning.” She was not so foolish as to suggest a complete removal of the Prince from the cabinet and council-such a thing was treason but also the Queen fiercely loved her son- but she knew how to play on the Queen’s fears. “My lord Harley has written to show you just how close the votes were. Had the Prince of Wales not spoken as he did, the bill would have passed the Lords and now you would be facing a difficult choice.” The Queen had not vetoed a bill passed by both houses of Parliament in some time. She had made sure of that, or rather her brat of a son had.

    “James did what was necessary. He knew that the House needed something to discuss whilst he negotiated the finer points of the French marriage. This is how he managed to handle it. And the bill did not pass. We do not see the problem.” The Queen replied.

    Abigail bit back her frustration. The Queen had been ready enough to dismiss Sarah from her position of power with a few choice words, whispered in the dead of night, but she would never remove her son. She loved the damned man too much and he wasn’t that great. Oh, the entire court hailed him as something splendid, as a war hero, but really, he was just a boy trying to be a man, ruled by his wife, that German strumpet. “But Your Majesty, surely you must see that the influence of Whiggish thought around the Prince? The fact he would even have allowed this bill to be proposed, when your objections to the non-conformists is so well known, is proof that their influence is corrosive.”

    “What do you mean?” The Queen asked her eyebrows raising in that manner that suggested to Abigail she was finally paying attention. “Speak plainly.”

    Abigail took a moment to gather her thoughts, she knew that what she said next would influence just how the next three years of the Queen’s reign would go. Push too hard and she would be in the Tower, but push the right amount and she might get what she wanted. She took a breath. “The Non-conformity bill is the work of Shrewsbury; I am sure Your Majesty remembers that in the early days of your reign he pushed hard for it. No doubt he tried to get the Prince to think of it positively. Furthermore, the ladies around the Princess of Wales have some Whiggish persuasion, particularly the Duchess of St Albans. She is known to be a Whig, or at least her husband is. Therefore, it stands to reason that they would influence her in her thought and through her the Prince. The speech that the Prince gave sounded more of a man knowing he was on the ropes of defeat, rather than striding through for battle and victory. It is my thought that perhaps some changes must be made.”

    Abigail could see how her words were having the desired effect. The woman was sat down but her mind was whirring with possibilities. “So, what would you suggest we do?”

    Abigail smiled behind her hand and then said. “I would suggest sending the Duke and Duchess of St Albans to Hanover to serve as the ambassador to your cousin the Elector’s court, Madam. I would also make a suggestion to the Princess that she might consider speaking more with the Duchess of Beaufort who is her lady in waiting rather than the others in her company.”

    “Indeed, a smart proposal.” The Queen said. Abigail smiled, the Duchess was her friend and someone she had planted there when the Princess had come the first time around.

    Abigail continued. “Furthermore, might I suggest a few changes to the cabinet, Your Majesty?”

    The Queen looked as if she might say no, so Abigail applied some light pressure to her neck, which got her to say. “Go on.”

    “Shrewsbury is ailing and is perhaps on death’s door even as we speak, as is Lord Godolphin. They have both served this country and you with able determination and grit. But perhaps the time has come from fresh blood into the Cabinet. My Lord Harley is someone who is most devoted to protecting the church and ensuring that the Prince gets good advice, that is of a more Tory persuasion. Furthermore, there is a member of the Southern Department, a junior minister named Henry St John who has done most of Shrewsbury’s work for him in the past few months. Perhaps the time has come to give him a full promotion.”

    The Queen hummed in thought then. “We see what you are saying, Abigail, truly we do. But until Shrewsbury comes to us and asks for relief we shall not grant it. For it would set a most dangerous precedent. However, we shall speak with Godolphin and ask him to give up his duties.”

    Abigail. “A most smart decision, Your Majesty.”

    The Queen beamed at her, and Abigail would ask if there were anything else she wished to speak about. “So, Abigail, what else is there on your mind? Come, speak freely with us, we know there is something bothering you.”

    Abigail sighed and made her shoulders sagged. “Your Majesty, I hate to be a burden, but my husband’s promotion has been denied. But no reason has been given for it. Only that it shall not be done this time.”

    She knew why it had happened, the Prince had gone to Marlborough and they had decided her husband could not be of a higher rank than him. That was fair, but still, Abigail had the Queen on her side and she would make use of that. “Oh, that is not acceptable. We shall speak with our son and ensure that your husband’s promotion goes through. Brigadier General was it not?”

    “It was, Your Majesty.” Abigail said. “Thank you, Your Majesty.”
     
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  11. CaedmonCousland Writes Overly Long Comments When Bored

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    ...She does realize that making an enemy of the guy who will be king in the future is a really stupid idea, right? Any gains she makes are temporary, and any resentment she creates with the Prince of Wales will come to roost eventually.
     
  12. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Oh deep down she realises this, but she's drunk on power right now. Duchess Sarah will be smiling when she hears about this.
     
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  13. BlueFlowwer Well-Known Member

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    I hope James crushes her like the slimy little bug she is....
     
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  14. Threadmarks: Chapter 147: The Lion Grows

    VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Chapter 147: The Lion Grows



    June, 1711


    Louis blinked. The hour was late. He felt increasingly fatigued and knew that he should venture to bed. But there was still much work to do. His grandsire, the King was too ill to attend the meetings of the council and had therefore delegated that task to Louis, and his own father preferred to hawk and hunt in Paris than anything else. So, here he was. With the weight of the state on his shoulders, King in action if not name. He took another breath and then spoke.

    “Gentlemen, there are a great many issues facing France. We are going to have to discuss some key issues that have been brought to my attention today. There are some issues which remain pressing, but they shall need to remain as such.” He took a deep breath then continued. “First and foremost, the issue of taxation is one with which we must address with great promptness. His Most Catholic Majesty has asked me to investigate the tax receipts.” He looked at the finance minister expectantly.

    The Comte de Pontchartrin, who had been tasked with this responsibility spoke then. “Your Royal Highness, I have looked over the receipts most diligently. We are within good means, and are not running a debt, however, we must find a means to continue keeping the kingdom afloat, otherwise the risk of returning into the red shall rise. My main concern is that, should we raise taxes, the people shall revolt. There is already grumbling in Paris about the price of bread.”

    Louis bit back a sigh. It seemed the Parisians were always unhappy with something. The other day it had been the price of butter, now it was bread. Was there no way to satisfy their almost constant unhappiness?! “What would you propose?” He asked.

    Pontchartrin was not the brightest of men, he was not a Colbert or a Lovouis, by any means, but he had some interesting ideas on occasion. “Your Royal Highness, I would propose that we lower the price of some luxury goods, and therefore drive up demand amongst the merchants for those goods. The merchants are experiencing a boom in trade, thanks to the peace with Britannia. Therefore, they have more money floating around.”

    Intrigued, Louise asked. “And what luxury goods would you recommend lowering the price of?”

    Pontchartrin scratched his head and then replied. “Some leather based goods, and some goods such as the steel needed for swords. We must ensure that the merchants feel that they are being rewarded for their hard work. It has become a custom for many merchants to wish to buy steel to make their own family swords. If we reduce the price of it, then they will be more encouraged to buy such items and we can bring in more revenue from there.”

    “Guns are the things in fashion now.” Tellier replied. Louis did not like that man, he was a buffoon.

    “I know, my lord, but I think that this is something that we must exploit.” Pontchartrin said.

    Tellier snorted. “So we should reward the merchants for realising something that we have known this entire time? Seems quite foolish.”

    Louis ignored the man and asked. “How much do you think that this could bring in?”

    “Somewhere in the range of three to four thousand, a week.” Pontchartrin replied.

    Louis thought about it for a moment and then said. “See that it is done. Reduce it by an amount you think appropriate.”

    “Yes, Your Royal Highness.” Pontchartrin said.

    Louis then turned his attention to another matter. “The last time this council met, there was concern about the situation in Tuscany. Tellier, what is the situation there now?”

    The man came alive then. “Your Royal Highness, the Grand Duke continues to try and ensure that his grandson by the Duchess of Modena can be recognised as his heir, should his sons fail to produce male children. This flies directly in the face of the treaty that was signed at the end of the war. However, we can use this to our advantage.”

    Louis raised an eyebrow. “How so?”

    Tellier smiled. “Your Royal Highness, Savoy is directly aligned with us, we have a gateway into Italy, Milan stands in our way however. Though that is countered by the presence of His Majesty, King Philippe, therefore we can say we surround Tuscany. If we dangle the thought of acknowledging his grandson as his heir, the Grand Duke will be forced to ally with us.”

    Louis thought on this matter for a moment, he did not want another war, but he did think that this might be a means to ensuring their interests in Italy were kept on track. “What have the Habsburgs said in response to the Grand Duke’s overtures?”

    Here, Tellier smiled. “Emperor Joseph has rejected it. Instead he insists that his sister’s husband is the rightful heir to the Grand Duchy.”

    Louis thought for a moment and then said. “Very well, send a tentative proposal out on this front. We shall recognise his grandson as his heir in the event of a failure in the male line, if he agrees to grant us exclusive trading rights.”

    Tellier smiled. “Very good, Your Royal Highness.”
     
  15. Rheinbund Well-Known Member

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  16. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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  17. Threadmarks: Chapter 148: Walpole's Rise

    VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Chapter 148: Walpole’s Rise



    October, 1711


    It was a warm day for an October. Parliament was in session, and Robert got the feeling that today was going to be an interesting day. The issue today was a motion that his good friend Henry Pelham had tabled, about the trade agreements with France and Spain. Pelham had been due to speak on the motion, but the Prince of Wales had met with the both of them before the start of the session today and asked that Robert be the one to speak. Robert had found that slightly odd, given the Prince’s dislike of Whigs, and Robert’s obvious inclinations toward said party. However, one did not counter the Prince, and therefore Robert found himself about to stand up and speak.

    William Bromley, a Tory and the Speaker of the House spoke first. “Gentlemen, we are here today to discuss a motion filed by the Right Honourable Henry Pelham. Mr Pelham, are you to speak on this motion?”

    Henry stood up and said. “My lord speaker, I have given the right to first speech to my honourable friend, Robert Walpole.”

    Bromley nodded, though there was some muttering from the Tory side. “Very well.” Bromley looked at him then and said. “Mr Walpole you may begin.”

    Robert stood up. “Thank you, Mr Speaker.” He took a breath and then continued. “My honourable friends, we are here today to discuss a matter of the utmost urgency. That matter being the trade agreements that we have with both France and Spain.” He paused, turned to the right and saw the Prince of Wales stood in the doorway, by tradition he could not enter the Commons but he could listen to the debates. Robert looked back to the opposition bench, and swallowed then continued. “Our alliance with Spain is not such a new thing that it can be easily discarded. We have stood together for almost one hundred years against the growth of French power. The French remain our traditional enemy, and this trade agreement with them is bound to make them think that they are to gain something from us.”

    He heard some murmurs of agreement from behind him, and encouraged continued. “Louis XIV is someone who has tried to take beyond his means. He continued to demand the Spanish Low Countries long after it became apparent that he could not take them. The recently concluded war was fought because he thought he could take them once more. He might be ailing and dying, but his son and grandson remain, and they share the same vision as him. Furthermore, the Duke of Burgundy has gotten an alliance with the Grand Duke of Tuscany to get exclusivity to trade rights with the Duchy of Tuscany in return for French recognition of the man’s grandson as his heir. In clear violation of the terms of the treaty.” He took a breath and then finished with. “Is there a way in which the honourable gentleman on the government bench can perhaps convince this house, that we have not been played for fools by Versailles?” That got a lot of applause.

    Robert Harley, the government leader in the House of Commons stood up then. He had risen high and fast in the past few years, using his ties to the Queen’s chief lady in waiting, Abigail Masham to ascend the lofty heights of government. “The Honourable Gentleman, has some valid concerns. I shall grant him that. However, Mr Speaker, what he fails to mention is that, this trade agreement we have with France, has ensured that we are gaining access to new markets, within the new world. Our trade with French colonies has seen income into the treasury treble in the past year and a half alone. Our trade with France and her allies, itself has seen income into the treasury double in the past year. There is no reason to think that such a thing cannot continue, with good management and agreement between Whitehall and Versailles.”

    That won him applause from the Tory benches, including from Robert’s friend William Wyndham, who he knew hoped to be seated in government in the times to come. Robert rose to give a response. “I fear that the honourable gentleman has gotten his thoughts mixed up. Yes, trade has increased and the nation is benefitting, but trade had increased before. During the reign of King Charles, we traded with France, and still we went to war with them before that King’s reign was over. And before that during the reign of King Charles I, we traded with France, and we went to war. There is a pattern that emerges with France. We might be trading with them, but they shall not stop their ambitions. And this agreement between Versailles and the Grand Duke shows that the Duke of Burgundy is no different to his grandsire.”

    Harley rose. “My honourable friend has quite forgotten himself there. Italy is of no concern to us. Tuscany is of no major concern to us. We have seen no sign that the French mean to take the Low Countries from Archduke Charles and his lady wife. Indeed, they are continuing to trade with them as per the terms of the treaty signed at the end of the war. I fear that the honourable gentleman has given himself over to useless worrying, for nothing more to do.” That got guffaws from the Tory benches, and even some Whigs.

    Robert thought for a moment and then rose. “So, then, the Honourable Minister is likely to say nothing when the French continue their armament process, and when they try once more to take land which does not belong to them? Sooner or later the Duke of Burgundy will need to prove himself, and when that arises, we shall be at war. Our trade with France is little compared to what we have with Spain.” He paused, looked at the Prince of Wales, saw the man nod almost without moving his head, and continued. “With Spain we have a chance to access the gold markets of the Southern New World Peninsula, the rush of silver and gems, we have a chance to establish a foothold in Florida. We would even have a chance to venture toward their lands in the far east, and access spice and another such things far easier than we do now. Our combined fleets would be more than enough to secure the waves for Britannia for generations. Something the French could not hope to match.”

    A hush descended over the House then, as they awaited Harley’s response. Robert could tell the man was caught off guard by what he’d said, his face was flushed and he looked tired. The man rose then and replied. “Mr Walpole forgets something here. Spain is in debt, grievous debt. They cannot pay their loans off without help from France and from the Empire. Their colonies spend every other year in open revolt, being crushed in slow moving fashion. We would be better served by allying with Portugal than with Spain.” Harley sat down, that was a weak defence, Robert thought.

    “If Spain is weak, then it is our duty, nay, our Christian right to ensure that France cannot grow any further. We must in the name of God, Queen and Country, ensure that we have the means and resources to defeat the French advances. France is the greatest danger to the security not only of Europe but of the world, that this world has ever seen since the Muslims first stepped out of Arabia. The time has come for us to put aside false pretences and acknowledge the French for what they are. Ambitious snakes, who shall not hesitate to betray us.” Robert thundered.

    Almost the entire hall stood up to applaud him then, and he knew Harley knew he had been beaten, for the man sat with his shoulders slumped. Robert glanced briefly to the doors, and saw the Prince of Wales smiling. He felt his heart uplift then. The Speaker banged his gavel thrice, and only then managed to silence the applause. “Thank you, both, gentlemen. Now that the motion has been discussed, let us see where the house sits. Those in favour of the motion, that this House is concerned with trade with France, please say aye.”

    Three quarters of the House said. “Aye.” Robert amongst them.

    “Those against, say nay.”

    One quarter led by Harley replied with. “Nay.”

    “The Motion passes.” Bromley said banging his gavel, to the cheers of the Whigs and some Tories.
     
  18. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    And here we see the speech that has landed Walpole onto the Prince of Wales' radar.
     
  19. Germania09 Well-Known Member

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    Well said of Robert Walpole imho. Good work on this update
     
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  20. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Cheers, and oh what makes you say so?
     
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