A Britain of Panthers and Lions: House of Oldenburg Britain

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by VVD0D95, Mar 4, 2018.

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  1. Jürgen Well-Known Member

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    Christian to my knowledge, the other potential Danish candidate to the Polish crown was Prince Carl of Denmark, but he was unwilling to convert[1]. I think Prince Christian would be willing to convert, as he had been candidate for many years, I suspect the unwillingless of the Danish royalty to convert was more to avoid the things in question George of Denmark had zero interest in becoming king, neither had Carl, Sophie Hedevig seem more to have wanted to avoid marriage to the emperor (maybe to keep a potential marriage alliance with the Swedish crown prince open, I suspect if the Danish state had enough interest in the marriage alliance with Austria, she would have converted).

    A Danish/Oldenburg king of Poland would be pretty interesting, it would give Poland a king without possessions outside Poland, but at the same time access to a alliance network and some access to the Danish armies. Of course if it stay realisitic, I also expect a closer Habsburg-Oldenburg relationship, which could convince Hedevig that the alliance is worth it. Especially if such a marriage help her brother gaining Poland.

    [1]honestly the real reason was that he was likely gay and had zero interest in becoming king, he mostly stayed out of politics.
     
  2. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    I can see England backing Christian as well given their familia relationship
     
  3. Threadmarks: Chapter 51: Board of The Admiralty

    VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Chapter 51: Board of the Admiralty


    George looked around the room, gathered in the Room of the Sea in the Palace of Whitehall, so named for this was where the Board of the Admiralty met to discuss all things naval. Model ships hung from the wall, and maps of the world also were on display. Admiral of the Fleet, Earl Dartmouth, Admiral of the White Arthur Herbert, Admiral of the Blue Earl Orford, Vice Admiral of the Red Duke of Grafton and Vice Admiral of the White George Rooke were all present for this meeting he had called.

    George cleared his throat. “Gentlemen, it has been three months since the ending of the Six Years War and the Treaty of Ryswick, in that time we have carried out a detailed survey of the ships of the Royal Navy and we have found some things that must be addressed in order to ensure a superior performance to that of the enemy in the next war. Lord Admiral, if you would?”

    Dartmouth was a man who George trusted, he was fiercely loyal and fiercely capable. “Thank you, Your Royal Highness.” The man looked at his notes. “Since the ending of the fighting, it has been found that the third-rate ships are lacking in terms of speed and agility, being worn down by old steering techniques that meant we were unable to capitalise on our early victories especially during manoeuvres at Beachy Head.” Here, Rooke sighed, he had been in charge of third rate ships. “Consequently, a detailed review has been ordered and some early findings suggest that in order to improve performance new steering techniques such as those implemented by the French and the Portuguese must be implemented.”

    George nodded, he had long thought that the implementation of the faster rotation methods used in Portuguese and French ships was far superior to the Dutch method, that Prince Rupert had employed during his time as head of the admiralty. However, it seemed that some did not share his view. “You wish to tell the ship captains that the steering of their ships would be better improved by employing a style that requires a shift from one movement to another, in a manner that would require superior lower body then upper body strength. Such a thing goes against the basics of English naval training.” Orford snarled. The man had never liked changes to the style, and indeed as commander of a second-rate ship of the line, he was demanding of such methods.

    “I believe, Admiral, that such changes would ensure better management of ships, and better control of who goes where. Thus avoiding the needless loss of life that we saw at La Hague.” Dartmouth responded. Orford bristled, the man had been in charge there. “Furthermore, our spies have reported that the French are building bigger and faster ships in far greater numbers. Despite the peace, King Louis does not seem to be slowing down. Therefore, we must adapt and change accordingly. Or we risk losing any advantage.” George agreed with Dartmouth, what he said made sense, and of course it would the man was the reason the French had not broken through in the channel for six years.

    “I still do not think that changing to a system that suits the French is the right way to go.” Orford said.

    “Then what do you suggest, Sir?” George asked, wondering whether Orford really wanted the promotion George had heard he wanted, or if he simply wanted to stick one to Dartmouth.

    Orford looked surprised, he was not used to being questioned, not by George anyway. “Your Royal Highness, I think we should look to develop the methods that His Majesty King James had first suggested during his time as Duke of York. The longer pulls, the stronger the arms, and the stronger the men, the greater the movement on the ships.”

    That was amusing to George, for he knew that the man had been one of the most vigorous opponents to the changes that George’s father in law had been proposing at the time before his ascension. And even afterwards. “And how pray tell would you implement such changes, when the tests needed for those changes will never been allowed by either Parliament or Her Majesty?” George asked, he had spoken with Dartmouth at the time, and with George Churchill and both men had told him about the impracticalities of what was being suggested. Anne had of course opposed it based on what John had said.

    Orford seemed perplexed by this, it was Grafton who answered. “Simply one could have the vote staged in such a manner that there is a compromise made in one direction rather than the other. The tests in return for something minor, a bone for Pembroke.”

    George shook his head. “Her Majesty will never go for that, and we shall not do something Her Majesty does not want.”

    “Then perhaps going with Dartmouth’s suggestion is the best option?” Herbert suggested, the man wanted to become Admiral of the Fleet, George knew, he also knew the man was angling for the revival of the First Naval Lord position.

    “Agreed.” Rooke said.

    “Then it is decided, we shall suggest the review of the third-rate ships and the positioning of training to Her Majesty.” George said, happily, perhaps now Anne would give him a more active role within the navy.
     
  4. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    So, here we've got the English preparing for a future naval war, and the beginnings of what will give them control of the seas.
     
  5. BlueFlowwer Well-Known Member

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    I adore your George so much.
     
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  6. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Glad you like him, if I might ask, what is it about him that you like?
     
  7. BlueFlowwer Well-Known Member

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    I think his devotion to Anne is wonderful :)
     
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  8. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Aye considering the debauchery that preceded Anne's reign, this is quite refreshing :)
     
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  9. Threadmarks: Chapter 52: James, Prince of Wales

    VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Chapter 52: James Prince of Wales



    James scratched at his neck, it was hot, and he really didn’t like that. Whitehall was not like Windsor, in Windsor there was air and there were birds, and there was an actual garden. Here in Whitehall, there was nothing more than the rooms-so many rooms- and there were people and some grass, but there was a heat and a smell, that there just wasn’t in Windsor. He stopped scratching as he entered Mama’s solar and stood to attention for a little bit, before Mama gestured for him to sit down.

    Mama seemed tired, but she smelled nice, and she smiled when she asked him. “So, my little Prince, tell me, what have you learned in your lessons today?”

    John Locke was his tutor, and he was an old man who smelled funny but he spoke a lot of interesting things. “Well, I learned about the different religious sects within the Kingdoms and why they are always so very argumentative.” Mother pursed her lips and James knew that perhaps he should have led with the lessons on the countries, Mama did not like it when he spoke of these things.

    Father entered the room then and placed his hands on Mama’s shoulders, which James thought was the reason behind why Mama then asked. “And what did he tell you?”

    “He said that the Anglican Church, the rightful church of the isles is the most tolerant, it enables people to practice their faith however they wish in private so long as they adhere to the teachings in public. Whilst Puritans are against fun things such as Christmas and plays, but that they essentially believe in similar things. Then there are the Presbyterians who are very much the extremes of the Puritans, and that they are some of the people behind the issues in Scotland.” James had heard his Mama and Papa arguing about Scotland last night, something to do with some nobles causing trouble. “Then there are the Catholics who are a small part of the country. They are heretics.”

    Mama nodded, and seemed as though she was about to ask him another question, when Papa coughed and Mama asked. “And what did he teach you about the Holy Roman Empire? That was what you were learning about was it not, my prince?”

    James nodded excited. “Yes! He told me about the different states and the electors, and about how they are all arguing over land and military might. And how the Habsburg Emperor, Leopold is one of the most powerful men in Christendom.” The Emperor seemed like the sort of man who came from stories, with his exploits against the Turks and the French.

    “And what else did he tell you about the Holy Roman Empire?” Mama asked.

    James thought for a moment and then he replied. “He told me that the Electors always gather when the Emperor dies, and that when they meet they discuss things such as the performance of the last Emperor and how the Emperor’s heir has done as King of the Romans.” James paused and then asked. “Why is the Emperor’s son called the King of the Romans if the Empire is based in Germany and not in Rome?” that was something that he could never figure out.

    It was Papa who answered that question. “Because they see themselves as the successors of the Roman Emperors of old. Caesar, Augustus, Romulus.”

    “Oh!” James exclaimed. “But then why are they not based in Rome, with the Pope?” That was something he had never understood either, surely they would need Rome.

    Mama answered that question. “Would you want to share a room with your brothers?”

    James gasped, the thought horrified. “Of course not! William snores!”

    Mama and Papa laughed. “Well there you go then. That is why, they both want similar things, but they wish to achieve them through different means, therefore they need to be in different places.” Papa answered.

    James remembered something he had heard Mary and Anne Sophia talk about the other night as well. “Is it true that Mary and Anne are going to Portugal and Sweden?” He had heard them talk about marriage, but that didn’t make any sense they were only a few years older than him, they were too young to get married, Master John had told him that.

    Mama answered that question. “They are betrothed to the heirs of Sweden and Portugal, they will marry them when they are of an age to marry.”

    “Will I be getting married as well?” James asked.

    Mama raised an eyebrow and asked. “Do you want to get married?”

    James gasped as though the thought horrified him. “No! Girls are icky!”

    Mama laughed, moved forward and tickled him. “You won’t be saying that when you’re older, my prince.” James giggled.
     
  10. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    So, a little bit of light fluff for you. A slight indication of what James, Prince of Wales (b.1687) is like. If you'd like to see chapters from other younger characters, please do let me know :)
     
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  11. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Also, potential brides for William, Duke of York (b.1689) and George, Duke of Gloucester (b.1692) as well as a husband for Sophie Amalie (b.1694) would be appreciated :)
     
  12. Valena Well-Known Member

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    A Dutch match for one of these kids makes sence, it seems, but mostly for boys (a Dutch Duchess of York). Regarding Gloucester, I've no idea. The girl needs to marry prestigiously like her sisters did.
    A Saxony match to OTL Augustus III (2 years younger than her TTL) for her makes a bit of sense (even if Saxons are not the Kings of Poland TTL likely), that's untreaded foothold into Germany and the Oldenburgs always had connections with them, not having actual Danish princess of suitable age this generation.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
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  13. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Hmm agreed there, Sophie to Augustus. Would Elisabeth of Brunswick Wolfenbuttel be off the cards? Also I imagine e a daughter of William of orange would then be considered for the duke of York
     
  14. Valena Well-Known Member

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    In case she does not want to convert. She's also from branch of Welfs rival to Hanoverians.
     
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  15. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    As Charles of Austria is married to his niece, I think Elisabeth is safe
     
  16. Joseph890 Well-Known Member

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    I always thought the reason why the holy Roman Emperor’s had such trouble with the popes was because of conflicting egos.
     
  17. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    That too, but try explaining that to a seven year old
     
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  18. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Chapter 53: Marlborough, Grand Duke




    The problem with Whitehall compared to Windsor, as far as John was concerned was that Whitehall was constantly hot, the number of bodies within the Palace-which was bigger than Versailles according to some estimates- meant that there was always some chance of sweating. Whereas Windsor was more balanced, and even keeled, ensuring that those living within it could get some air when needed. The Queen had insisted through executive decree that all those who wished to attend court, live in Whitehall, with some eight hundred rooms and more being built, meant the nobility were always meeting one another. Rivalries were formenting, such as the one between John and Peterborough.

    Yet whilst Peterborough had an exalted military reputation, he was not in the Queen’s cabinet nor was he her closest advisor. John was. That was why when he spoke he knew he’d be listened to. “Your Majesty, I have conducted a thorough review of the army as you requested, and I have found the following things.” He looked at the Queen who nodded for him to continue. “We have enough cannons and gunpowder to ensure a stable army campaign for four years at present. We have enough food and water to ensure a stable supply for a campaign of eight years at the present. And with the regiments current stationed across England, Wales and Ireland, we have enough men to keep fighting for eight years also. We have the financial capability to keep these men going and to add perhaps another ten thousand men at a stretch.” Given his conclusions at the end of the Six Years War, John had urged the Queen and put the case before Parliament for keeping a standing army of forty thousand men. He’d been successful in that, and had been tasked with keeping them maintained and trained as Master General of the Ordinance, and Commander in Chief of the Forces.

    “And should war be declared tomorrow, as we are sure it might be given, King Louis’ inclinations, would the army be capable of holding its own in protracted sieges?” The Queen asked.

    After the war, John had met with Her Majesty to discuss the war, and he had informed her of his belief that the days of siege warfare might well be over. Open battles were necessary. “I believe, Your Majesty that Your Majesty’s army at present could withstand a siege for some three years, it could maintain one for four years. But I believe we must look away from sieges toward active combat.”

    “And if that were the case, how would we do?” The Queen asked, John once again got the sense that the Queen wished for another war, to prove her mettle to the people and to the world. He had been raised to the Dukedom of Marlborough after his return from war, and he knew that he would need to justify such a rise.

    “I believe, Your Majesty from my assessments of how the army performed during the recently concluded war, and the performance of the regiments across the board during drills and mock exercises, that we would be able to win three out of four battles that we fought.” John said. He noticed that Sunderland was hiding a smirk. The man did not like him, he knew, considered him beneath him. John ignored him and focused simply on the Queen. “Your Majesty, whilst I would like for us to win all of our battles, it is my belief that this is the best we can hope for now. With the current training and equipment that we have.”

    The Queen said nothing for some time, instead she drank some wine, and then drank some water, and for a moment John worried that he had said something wrong and was about to get a tongue lashing. It was only when she flicked her fingers that he realised what she was doing. Then she spoke and he got his confirmation. “Sidney, tell us, what are our financial restrictions at the present moment?”

    Sidney Godolphin, a friend of John’s who sat on the Board of the Treasury and aimed to become Lord High Treasurer, looked down at his notes and then said. “Your Majesty, at present the Bank is making a healthy profit, and government funds are growing by the month. I would say that our limits are merely what you wish them to be.”

    That was the smart answer, the Queen never liked being told what she could not do, and usually relied on her husband, the Duke of Cumberland to break the news to her. The Duke had decided not to attend today’s meeting, instead John had heard he had retired to Bath for a week, taking his and the Queen’s children with him for some fun. The Queen was to join them after this meeting. “Very well,” the Queen replied. “We have received word that there are some within Parliament who wish for fresh elections to be called. Those who believe that it would benefit the country, especially in light of the missives being sent by both the Earl of Argyll and the Earl of Perth in regards to discussions of union. We wish to get your thoughts.”

    To John fresh elections would do more harm than good. Those who sat on the front bench in the Commons were people he was friends with, people such as Henry St John and Robert Harley, whilst those such as Stanhope and Hopkins had the support of Peterborough. Deciding to speak before anyone else could, he said. “Your Majesty, I do not think that new elections would serve much purpose. The people calling for them are those who stand opposed to the country’s agenda. They wish to bring their own form of puritanism into the fore. I would recommend meeting with the Earl of Perth to get the best out of any unification discussions.”

    Shrewsbury who was John’s ally, if not friend, spoke then. “Your Majesty, I agree with His Grace. I feel that the best hand we can get is to ensure that the Scots know where we come from is a position of strength. Every question asked of the gentry has shown no party would have a majority in the Commons if it went to a new election. Whilst today we have a strong majority.”

    The Queen looked at Sunderland and asked. “Sunderland, what do you think?”

    Sunderland was a believer in the heresy that was the system of Versailles, he would never want fresh elections, therefore John was not surprised that he said. “I agree with Shrewsbury, Your Majesty. New elections makes no sense.”

    The Queen nodded. “Very well, Parliament remains in session. Now if you would excuse us, we have a celebration to attend to.” The Queen rose as did they all, they bowed their heads as she left. John was left wondering if his daughters would come back with stories about the adventures they got up to with the Queen’s daughters, before he remembered he was going as well.
     
  19. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    So, here we've got the start of Marlborough's rapid rise to glory, it already started under Anne's Uncle and Father, but this is when he really gets famous.

    Would readers like to see more local politics within the British Isles, should the Act of Union happen sooner under Scottish initiatives, or be delayed?

    What more would you want to see more of?
     
  20. C. McKay Well-Known Member

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    I am enjoying your time line. More local politics would be good.
     
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