A Brexit inspired early USA question

Rutledge could take MD, possibly even DE, in addition to GA and SC. That could be enough for VP. (assuming a split New England). PA goes for Adams.
 
An 8 state scenario means 6 states could approve the Constitution. Or am I missing something?
It's out of 13 states, always 13. Unless the Confederation admitted Vermont or Kentucky prior to Constitution ratification, which they considered Kentucky in the middle of the Constitutional Convention but held off for potential conflict of interest.
 
Need 9 states for the Constitution to go into effect though. Without NH you only habe 8 and all 13 states are left under the Article of Confederation, the Constitution dies.

Ok, how about North Carolina joins the Constitution, but the State of Franklin is partitioned from North Carolina and added in as a Confederation state.

This could allow for the Constitution to be ratified and for there to be more than one southern state. Franklin could then eventually be granted most or all of Tennessee over time.

Or we could have an alternative where Maine is made into a state earlier, or we could have Westsylvania (with a much better name) adopted as a state following the American Revolution. Any of these could become Constitution states and have it become ratified while leaving enough states in the Confederation.

EDIT: The Franklin-North Carolina Compromise could come from there being widespread opposition to joining the Constitutional Congress but enough support in favor of it for the state to ratify the Constitution. It could be the end result of this conflict, calling upon the recent memory of a state that almost was. It would not be a direct continuation of it.
 
Ok, how about North Carolina joins the Constitution, but the State of Franklin is partitioned from North Carolina and added in as a Confederation state.

This could allow for the Constitution to be ratified and for there to be more than one southern state. Franklin could then eventually be granted most or all of Tennessee over time.

Or we could have an alternative where Maine is made into a state earlier, or we could have Westsylvania (with a much better name) adopted as a state following the American Revolution. Any of these could become Constitution states and have it become ratified while leaving enough states in the Confederation.
Solved one problem but I think you set up for big conflict between the two Congresses on western expansion. Conflict is good, I'm not complaining. Conflict is the driver of history.
 
Solved one problem but I think you set up for big conflict between the two Congresses on western expansion. Conflict is good, I'm not complaining. Conflict is the driver of history.

Yeah, I think that would result in there having to be a lot more compromises regarding western expansion. I think that Vermont and Kentucky being added into the Union would be a big issue that would have to result in one joining the Confederation Congress and the other joining the Constitutional Congress. Although both would probably be more at home in the Confederation Congress, I can't see the Constitutional Congress going through all the trouble of hosting a Constitutional Convention, writing a brand new Constitution, and just letting all of the potential new states join the old Confederation Congress
 
So we absolutely have to nail down the ninth state. Otherwise, the Constitution doesn't actually pass. Can't elect a President without it. (At least not in a familiar way.) And that ninth state will affect any Presidential election.
 
Also, butterflies the first SCOTUS chief justice John Jay as he's a NYer. Madison v Marbury if the events of the case even happen under an ATL replacement for VA Madison who cant become sec of state and later President, we have the problem of different justices who very well might not decide to state that SCOTUS has judicial review rights over Congressional laws and Presidential actions, we might not have a nation where laws can be declared unconstitutional by SCOTUS, this may lead to more acceptance of the idea of state's rights and nullification.
 
I find myself wondering why any state would join the Constitutional states. It seems RI and it's taxes on neighbors would be the first stickiest situation: if that stands there's economic scenarios that would ensue. The Constitution states would clearly need to trade amongst themselves over sea. So funding a merchant fleet would be necessary. Same would go for the coastal Confederation states.
 
Ok, so lets start building a timeline here. The Point of Divergence is that Alexander Hamilton moves to Boston instead of New York City. This puts him firmly among the intellectual elite of the city, becoming a student of people more like Samuel Adams and John Adams than William Livingstone. He would become a close friend of George Washington and an avid Federalist. He would write the famous Federalist Papers, which would circulate around Massachusetts in the lead up to the Constitutional Convention of 1787.

At the convention, delegations from all of the thirteen now free colonies except for Rhode Island would arrive to discuss the issues of the Articles of Confederation and how to fix them with a new Constitution of the United States of America. The US Constitution that we all know is what exists this convention, it is ratified by Delaware, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Georgia, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maryland, and South Carolina by May of 1788. New Hampshire, New York, Virginia, North Carolina, and Rhode Island all refuse to ratify the Constitution, seeing it as overly Federalist. While the states that ratified the Constitution anxiously wait for one of them to break, New Hampshire, New York, Virginia, North Carolina, and Rhode Island are avidly anti-Federalist and continue to only recognize the authority of the Articles of Confederation. Accepting the Constitution is debated and voted on in the state legislatures of New York and Virginia, with both votes failing. Rhode Island and New Hampshire don't even vote on it, with the opinion so overwhelmingly against "Hamilton and Madison's new government order."

North Carolina is far more divided than the rest. While popular sentiment is anti-Federalist, there are strong elements of Federalists among the state legislature. After much heated debate and a close vote, the state votes to ratify the Constitution in September of 1789, over a year after the other Constitutional states joined. The states that are still under the Articles of Confederation show open contempt for the Constitution and clearly will not join. Their strong anti-Federalist rhetoric is popular and causes a near revolt in western North Carolina. Confederation Representative George Clinton called what happened in North Carolina "a subversion of democracy" and called for a reversal of the decision. As protests and riots broke out all across the state, North Carolina Governor Samuel Johnston brokers a deal with David Caldwell, a representative from western North Carolina and anti-Federalist leader, and Alexander Martin, the chosen representative of North Carolina for the Constitutional Convention. The solution they arrived at was to divide North Carolina in two, with the eight western counties of Rutherford, Burke, Wilkes, Surry, Rowan, Lincoln, Guilford, and Randolph breaking away to form a new state, the State of Franklin and having David Caldwell serve as its first governor. Franklin was officially admitted into the Confederation Congress in March of 1790, defusing the situation for now and avoiding any kind of national crisis.

There are now nine Constitutional States, Delaware, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Georgia, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maryland, South Carolina, and North Carolina, and five Confederation States, New York, Virginia, Rhode Island, New Hampshire, and Franklin. Tensions are high and will get even worse during the first election for President of the United States since the adoption of the Constitution by most of the states.

EDIT:
For those unfamiliar with the county map of North Carolina in the late 1700s:
http://www.usgwarchives.net/maps/northcarolina/statemap/1780NCCounties.jpg
 
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So we absolutely have to nail down the ninth state. Otherwise, the Constitution doesn't actually pass. Can't elect a President without it. (At least not in a familiar way.) And that ninth state will affect any Presidential election.

I think that North Carolina voting for the Constitution and that resulting in a crisis is the best way to go.

Also, butterflies the first SCOTUS chief justice John Jay as he's a NYer. Madison v Marbury if the events of the case even happen under an ATL replacement for VA Madison who cant become sec of state and later President, we have the problem of different justices who very well might not decide to state that SCOTUS has judicial review rights over Congressional laws and Presidential actions, we might not have a nation where laws can be declared unconstitutional by SCOTUS, this may lead to more acceptance of the idea of state's rights and nullification.

Oh god that'll be a mess. I'd be interested to see who becomes president if there are no Virginians or New Yorkers in Federal government until at least 1810 or so. Would it just be all Massachusetts or would some other states take the limelight?

I find myself wondering why any state would join the Constitutional states. It seems RI and it's taxes on neighbors would be the first stickiest situation: if that stands there's economic scenarios that would ensue. The Constitution states would clearly need to trade amongst themselves over sea. So funding a merchant fleet would be necessary. Same would go for the coastal Confederation states.

Any state that cannot pay for its debts independently would need the Constitutional Congress to survive economically. It would be much more Federalist and thus much more willing to through around money as well, meaning that states that would find this beneficial would definitely join. I'm thinking the whole of the modern day Rust Belt would be a Congressional stronghold.
 
I like the North Carolina and Franklin scenario. It's a happy precedent for growing both the Constitutional Republic and the Confederation. The flag is going to be a mess too.
 
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