A Bourbon-Habsburg match?

I was thinking about a possible marriage deal between Bourbon Spain and Austria. OTL Carlos III marrying Maria Theresa and his younger brother Infante Philip marrying MT's sister Maria Anna. IOTL there was such a plan for a short while. What POD would be necessary for it to happen?
 
Yeah the government in Madrid and Infante Carlos could agree but what about Charles VI? He's marrying his heiress to a Bourbon prince, the son of a man who took the Spanish crown from him. What could make him accept this?
 
Yeah the government in Madrid and Infante Carlos could agree but what about Charles VI? He's marrying his heiress to a Bourbon prince, the son of a man who took the Spanish crown from him. What could make him accept this?

I'm not sure how he can be persuaded to agree to this, but, an Austria-Spain 8c alliance - rather than the Spain-France alliance of OTL - could be interesting to watch. Since what's gonna happen in Italy? Austria held Naples originally, Spain was to inherit Tuscany. Then things changed, and Spain conquered Naples, Austria getting Tuscany. Which means it could turn the whole Italian dynamic on its head (or at least reverse it - i.e. Austrian south vs Bourbon north).
 
I was thinking something along the lines of 1756 Bourbon-Habsburg alliance, only even closer. If Luis I of Spain lives with him married and having another brother that's aldo married there is very little chance for Farnese children to inherit Spain. With Spain under Bourbons there is no more threat of Habsburg encirclement and the Austrian Netherlands pose no threat to France while any further encroachments against the Empire won't be viewed well by the European countries and it would force them into an anti-French coalition like in the days of Louis XIV. And if Austria ends up with a Bourbon heir (oh the irony) France has nothing to fear and it could lead to a France-Spain-Austria axis. There is also no need to fear the Austrians taking over Germany if other electors like Bavaria, Saxony Hanover etc remain in the same positions as OTL. Spain only need to smooth out their relationship with France (which they did IOTL in 1731). It also neutralises Sardinia and ensures stability in Italy with Carlos having Tuscany, Parma maybe given to Philip and Austria keeping Sicily and Naples. There was a plan for an MT/Carlos match and an Austro-Spanish alliance for retaking Gibraltar in 1720s but that was too far-fetched and unrealistic. I'm only wondering about how to make Charles VI to agree to it and stick with it. Maybe if the Lorraine family refuses the deal with Francus Stephen unwilling to agree giving up his Duchy. Or wiping out all male candidates for the marriage but all that pulls a bunch of new butterflies
 
Bumping this. And another idea...if the Austro-Spanish alliance somehow holds could Spain help Austria in the Austro-Turkish War 1737-1739?
 
Charles VI would certainly be more willing to marry off his daughters if Leopold John has survived but then why would Spain realign towards Austria? Maybe if Louis the XV dies and the Duke of Orleans takes the throne would that be enough to turn Spain away from France?
 
Actually the 1725 Treaty of Vienna betrothed Infante Carlos to Maria Theresa and Infante Felipe to Maria Ana; it was only after massive European pressure and some behind the scenes maneuvering by the Empress Elisabeth Christine that the engagement was broken. So there could be an Austrian House of Bourbon if the marriage(s) go(es) through. I'm not sure how realistic it would be though; we would likely need much better Austro-Spanish relations, including the avoidance of a clash in the Polish Succession War, and either a surviving Luis I or Fernando VI having issue, but it's not impossible.
 
OK now that I've thought about it further, d@mnit @Vladivostock you've given me bad but really cool ideas! Try this own for size; the Vienna alliance holds. Carlos is able to inherit Tuscany and Parma without conflict, though the Polish Succession war most likely still happens it cuts out the Italian theatre. Carlos marries Maria Theresa around 1736, when he inherits Tuscany. Meanwhile Felipe marries Maria Ana; the two could end up inheriting the Two Sicilies if necessary or equally likely become Governors of the Netherlands. An Austro-Spanish alliance could mean France allies with her cousins instead of Bavaria and Prussia, causing an early diplomatic revolution.

Now such a major triple alliance is likely to scare the rest of Europe, meaning that Britain might switch to supporting the Bavarian/Saxon pretensions (depending on the outcome of the Polish war Saxony might not end up controlling the Commonwealth). So come 1740 we could have a Northern alliance of Britain, Prussia (maybe) the Netherlands and Bavaria versus France, Spain and Austria. Now not sure how the war would go if France and Austria start out on the same side, but at the very least a limited war in Flanders (unless the Dutch manage to throw something together) and Italy (only Savoy would be a threat and without Austrian backing I think Turin's likely to remain neutral). That leaves the major theatre in Germany. A Franco-Austrian victory would not only leave Vienna in control of Silesia but could also finally eliminate Bavaria as well, if France is willing to back a partial or full annexation. So best case scenario Austria is sitting very pretty, in full domination of both Germany and Italy; or at the least in control of Italy, a significant presence in Southern Germany and maybe keeping their Balkan holdings in Serbia as well. Hell we could be really far out and through in a successful Jacobite rising as well.

Not sure what happens with Spain though; as I said above it would be better if either Luis I survives or Fernando VI has issue. If not then the throne falls to either Emperor Karl VII and Maria Theresa (or more likely a second son of the couple) or to Felipe and Maria Ana, assuming that they haven't been installed as King and Queen of the Two Sicilies. In the former case we could be right back to the spectre of a revived Empire of Charles V that existed in 1711.
 
Emperor: assuming the same poisoning (accidental or intentional) of Charles VI in 1740, and Prussia starts the Silesian War, Prussia is in deep doo-doo. Bavaria is not getting aggressive (I think they're sucking up to France/Austria to begin with, but they're not going hot against them), and Britain has limited ability to project power on the continent, so it is likely to be Prussia vs Austria/France. OTL, Prussia got fortunate that France/Bavaria/Spain occupied Austria's attention. TL Austria can concentrate on Prussia, and France will ensure that Austria wins, but not too easily. France doesn't want Austria to get too powerful. Ally or not, a too powerful Austria is not in France's best interest. No one is going to watch Austria and Spain unify. OTL's Charles III lineage is first in line if Louis/Ferdinand die childless, but it's not going to be Charles himself. Maybe Phillip moves into Madrid. No way, No how is a unification even a possibility.
 
Emperor: assuming the same poisoning (accidental or intentional) of Charles VI in 1740, and Prussia starts the Silesian War, Prussia is in deep doo-doo. Bavaria is not getting aggressive (I think they're sucking up to France/Austria to begin with, but they're not going hot against them), and Britain has limited ability to project power on the continent, so it is likely to be Prussia vs Austria/France. OTL, Prussia got fortunate that France/Bavaria/Spain occupied Austria's attention. TL Austria can concentrate on Prussia, and France will ensure that Austria wins, but not too easily. France doesn't want Austria to get too powerful. Ally or not, a too powerful Austria is not in France's best interest. No one is going to watch Austria and Spain unify. OTL's Charles III lineage is first in line if Louis/Ferdinand die childless, but it's not going to be Charles himself. Maybe Phillip moves into Madrid. No way, No how is a unification even a possibility.

Not necessarily. Your underestimating just how freaked out the rest of Europe is going to be by the alliance. Britain can project power via Hanover and can field significant forces, as the Austrian Succession war and Seven Years' war proved (typically Britain alone could field around 20,00 but their real strength was in buying mercenary troops from Germany). Meanwhile we're likely to see a pretty significant fear in the rest of the Empire; previously the smaller Imperial estates could ally with France against Austria or vise versa. Now that door is closed. Plus Britain and the Netherlands went to war against France OTL so there's no reason to think that London would just lay back and accept the destruction of the balance of power. Also, now that I think about it, Britain would still be involved in the Flemish campaign; that particular theatre of the war was more France vs Britain and the Netherlands with only minimal Austrian involvement.

As to Bavaria, yeah no. The Bavarian Elector, Karl Albrect, was pretty ballsy during this time and was determined to claim the Habsburg inheritance via his wife. Swapping France for Britain means that is still viable; Britain can sure as hell pay bigger subsidies and add their ability to marshal the German states to the Prussian war machine. Plus combine the three Wittelsbach electoral votes with Prussia and Hanover and Bavaria is able to grab the Imperial throne. So we could easily see a North vs South war in Germany. Not saying they have a major chance at success but the causes of the Austrian succession war are still in play no matter who Maria Theresa marries.

Finally, I didn't mean that an Imperial-Spanish union was going to happen or even realistic; I just meant that the fear of it would be in play again. No one's going to want it to happen, except maybe Isabel Farnese and the Emperor, and Europe would unify to block it.
 
So what I'm picking up here, @Emperor Constantine is that we see the following blocks

Carlos I, Grand Duke of Tuscany, duke of Parma+Maria Theresia, Queen of Hungary
Filippo, (possibly king of Naples)+Maria Anna of Austria (sister of Maria Theresia)
Friedrich August III, King of Poland+Maria Josefa of Austria (elder daughter of Josef I)
Karl Albrecht of Bavaria, Holy Roman Emperor+Maria Amalie of Austria (younger daughter of Josef I)

Although, out of curiosity, why would France automatically ally with Austria because Spain does? This was during the period of the 30 Years' Peace, and Franco-Spanish relations were bad starting with the Regence of the duc d'Orléans, exacerbated by the dismissal of Mariana Vittoria, and ending with the double marriage of the dauphin and his sister to an infante/infanta of Spain.

France would back Bavaria as OTL. Britain would back Bavaria/Saxony most likely. But Britain wouldn't want France to get the Austrian Netherlands, so they might be given to someone to prevent that from happening. So Britain and France might be allied everywhere, except in Flanders.
 
Emperor: true, the smaller countries played the French vs Austrian camps against each other. they'll be concerned about an alliance between the two. but that doesn't mean they all automatically go into an anti French/Austrian coalition. you're still going to have a lot of them figuring (correctly, IMO) that F/A is going to win and work to remain on their good side. That goes for Bavaria. Karl was ambitious, but I'm in the camp that says he doesn't buck both France and Austria at the same time. Most of these countries only chose a side when forced to. they knew they were pawns of the great powers and in TL, the greatest land powers are France/Austria. Prussia was the best pound for pound, but they were simply outweighed massively.

the cause of the WOAS are quite basic: a bunch of countries thought they could dismantle Austria's holdings. especially after Prussia got the ball rolling with a victory. With two major powers backing Austria on land, it's questionable whether Frederick would have been so bold to begin with. OTL, he correctly saw that France, Spain and Bavaria would join in the partition of Austria, then backstabbed them when they did get involved. TL, he's in it for the duration and Prussia is front and center the entire war. France will be quite careful to keep the emphasis on backing Prussia off and beating Bavaria if they dare get involved. there will be no Italian front. Austrian Netherlands will only be a front if Prussia/allies make it a front to attack France. in such a scenario, the United Provinces aren't being threatened, so I find it hard to believe they'll push for it to be a front. While they don't like Austria being on France's side, they may very well say 'Silesia isn't on my doorstep, I'm staying out'. the WOAS was less about the succession and more about grabbing a piece of Austrian pie during a perceived weak moment. In this TL, you've got Prussia, which has some punching power, but is not a heavyweight, Bavaria, which is ambitious, but has no real power, a few lightweights, and Britain acting as banker. It's possible that everyone sits back and watches to see if Prussia can follow up Mollwitz with another victory, and then sees Austria win that war, which they will, if it's just the two of them. Diplomatically, Britain's main interest is breaking up the F/A friendship, not uniting them in war.
 
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