A Better World

I am in agreement that just because something happens in one place, means something randomly changes in some faraway place. There's bound to be random changes but I'm in the belief they need to be effected by the initial POD or PODs. This is the guy who wanted an Alba-ruled Spain and Portugal and later ruled by the Jagiellons. :D
 
I am in agreement that just because something happens in one place, means something randomly changes in some faraway place. There's bound to be random changes but I'm in the belief they need to be effected by the initial POD or PODs. This is the guy who wanted an Alba-ruled Spain and Portugal and later ruled by the Jagiellons. :D

And effects are more pronounced the farther from the POD you get - sure, 16th century politics remain fundamentally the same if Cortes decides to take the Mexica as his personal domain independent of the Spanish crown, but two centuries on and everything is different.
 
And effects are more pronounced the farther from the POD you get - sure, 16th century politics remain fundamentally the same if Cortes decides to take the Mexica as his personal domain independent of the Spanish crown, but two centuries on and everything is different.

Depends. Surely Cortes going rogue would lead to any following conquistador activity to be severely restricted or abolished altogether (I'm going for the former); money generated from the gold mines in Mexico won't go to fund Spain's wars in Europe making things quite different if you think about it. Charles and his successors would be more frugal with wasting their money fighting a war with Francois I of France.
 
Depends. Surely Cortes going rogue would lead to any following conquistador activity to be severely restricted or abolished altogether (I'm going for the former); money generated from the gold mines in Mexico won't go to fund Spain's wars in Europe making things quite different if you think about it. Charles and his successors would be more frugal with wasting their money fighting a war with Francois I of France.

And Spain's economy would be the better for it!
 
Who would imagine an initial screw would lead to a long term wank! :D

Wow. That just sounded wrong.

Just like that Mexican "Victory" TL where Mexico still loses its war against the USA but doesn't fall into instability like it did in OTL.
 
On the other hand, if Cortez keeps (I'm just making up numbers here) one hundred pounds and three ounces of gold rather than exactly one hundred pounds to himself, would it make any significant enough difference to add up to anything?

Some small PODs lead to big changes, but that three ounces of gold makes the difference between victory and defeat in some battle for Spain is...

Well, its not specifically impossible, but I think its clear how minimal this is, in the sixteenth century and beyond.

I'm not going to touch how Drago has a dirty mind, that was too funny to be appalled by.
 
That amount of gold could buy some mercenaries which could prove to be crucial in an important battle which can very well decide the outcome of the entire campaign, perhaps even the war. It makes every bit of difference to Spain and the world beyond. Do you think if Cortes did, as many in the royal court suspected, carve off his own independent kingdom, Pizzaro would get royal approval to go into Peru? I think not.

The Ottoman economy for one won't go in the dumps due to the large amounts of gold and silver in circulation, but that's coming from a guy who still remains a noob in Renaissance economics.

Anyways we can continue discussing via PM instead of spamming kasumigenex's TL.

I'm confused. How will Tibet be invaded by Timur? That's some rough terrain.
 
That amount of gold could buy some mercenaries which could prove to be crucial in an important battle which can very well decide the outcome of the entire campaign, perhaps even the war. It makes every bit of difference to Spain and the world beyond. Do you think if Cortes did, as many in the royal court suspected, carve off his own independent kingdom, Pizzaro would get royal approval to go into Peru? I think not.

The Ottoman economy for one won't go in the dumps due to the large amounts of gold and silver in circulation, but that's coming from a guy who still remains a noob in Renaissance economics.

Anyways we can continue discussing via PM instead of spamming kasumigenex's TL.

I'm confused. How will Tibet be invaded by Timur? That's some rough terrain.

Through EUIII mechanics. ;)
 
Through EUIII mechanics. ;)

But this isn't a game of EUIII! :eek:

I mean Timur and most of his army is going to die tranversing through those mountains before they ever encounter resistance by the Tibetans which for some reason I imagine as kung fu Buddhist warrior monks. :p
 
But this isn't a game of EUIII! :eek:

I mean Timur and most of his army is going to die tranversing through those mountains before they ever encounter resistance by the Tibetans which for some reason I imagine as kung fu Buddhist warrior monks. :p

I don't get why Tibet gets invaded easily in some TLs. It took until relatively recently for China to take it to the point where Tibetan independence is a rather popular movement in OTL.
 
I don't get why Tibet gets invaded easily in some TLs. It took until relatively recently for China to take it to the point where Tibetan independence is a rather popular movement in OTL.

An assumption that because its part of China now that it could be made one earlier?

Didn't the Mongols have some level of authority over it?

The Yuan and all that.

P.S. Drago, sent you a PM on the relevance of 85 ducats or so worth of gold.
 
An assumption that because its part of China now that it could be made one earlier?

Didn't the Mongols have some level of authority over it?

The Yuan and all that.

They did, of course, but Timur invading from the west isn't as easy as invading from China, you know.
 
I got it, Elfwine.

The Mongols had some hegemony over the place though I wouldn't say they directly administered the place though I can be proven wrong.
 
They did, of course, but Timur invading from the west isn't as easy as invading from China, you know.

Yeah. And its not as if the eastern route is exactly easy.

I suppose if anyone could do it, Timur could, but that's not encouraging. Even by Mongol standards of epic, this is going to be...impressive.

Or maybe he'll lose horribly and that's how TTL lives up to the title. :D
 
I got it, Elfwine.

The Mongols had some hegemony over the place though I wouldn't say they directly administered the place though I can be proven wrong.

From the book I have handy on the Mongols...there was an invasion in 1267 followed by it being administered "by a so-called Pacification Bureau.", but it doesn't give any details on how that worked.

Sounds (as the author says) distinctly unpleasant.
 
Ahh, the Mongols. A centuries-long tradition of figuring out the most efficient ways to subjugate everyone else. Remember the mission statement...

"The greatest happiness is to scatter your enemy, to drive him before you, to see his cities reduced to ashes, to see those who love him shrouded in tears, and to gather into your bosom his wives and daughters.”
 
Tibet was a vassal state of the Mongols, in the way tributary states are to China. Aren't as many mountain passes in the west as there are in the east, though, and food is scarce. Tibet is hell for an invading army.
 
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