A Better Scenario for Philippines

I think not having Tondo sacked by Bruneians would benefit Luzon in the long term - and why it is because the nobility in Luzon were replaced by Bruneians and the original nobility and the dynasty were either marginalized or fled to the mountains, the Bruneian Nobility in Luzon became the Principalia there in the Spanish times and even supported the Spanish - the only way to prevent that is to make Tondo convert to islam voluntarily.

Since the Kingdom of Tondo is the 'Yamato' state in Luzon, it already have control over the other states in Luzon like Yamato does in Japan and having Tondo not sacked by the Bruneians and Luzon voluntarily islamized would mean the nobility in Luzon would think of them as one with the people of the Island and would think of the welfare of the people like in Mindanao and because of that the Spanish would only conquer a part of Luzon like Mindanao and because both Mindanao and Luzon are mostly unconquerable, the Spanish would have a difficulty in holding what they already have in the Philippines.

I think this scenario is a better scenario for the Philippines since the people in luzon were more enthusiastic about having a nation which conflicts the other part of the archipelago.
 
Better perhaps for the native states, but the Philippines as an idea and nation would not exist.

Because the formation of the nation was the three centuries of Spanish rule. The principalia would be there regardless, but as petty rulers of petty states like those of the south before the artificial formations of British Malaya and the Dutch East Indies.

The nation that is our country was formed by the actions of the Spanish Empire. By the Catholicism that has for better or worse fundamentally changed our idea of the world. By the galleon trade which made us into a hub of trade. By the wars between our nation and the corsairs and privateers which made the principalia a force in the colony.
 
Better perhaps for the native states, but the Philippines as an idea and nation would not exist.

Because the formation of the nation was the three centuries of Spanish rule. The principalia would be there regardless, but as petty rulers of petty states like those of the south before the artificial formations of British Malaya and the Dutch East Indies.

The nation that is our country was formed by the actions of the Spanish Empire. By the Catholicism that has for better or worse fundamentally changed our idea of the world. By the galleon trade which made us into a hub of trade. By the wars between our nation and the corsairs and privateers which made the principalia a force in the colony.

In reality, the existence of the Philippines is nothing but a compromise, if the Bruneians did not sack Tondo, the people of Luzon would not even bow down and convert like the Mindanaoans did and would fight till the end and also the Luzonians would get the nation that they wanted, that is why it is a better scenario in the long run.

In Luzon, the people want to compromise for nation building no matter how it takes- that is the main conflict between Luzon and Visayas - So Luzon can stand on its own.
 
In reality, the existence of the Philippines is nothing but a compromise, if the Bruneians did not sack Tondo, the people of Luzon would not even bow down and convert like the Mindanaoans did and would fight till the end and also the Luzonians would get the nation that they wanted, that is why it is a better scenario in the long run.

In Luzon, the people want to compromise for nation building no matter how it takes- that is the main conflict between Luzon and Visayas - So Luzon can stand on its own.

The idea of Luzon was not a thing either. There were the Ilocanos and Tingguians in the northern lowlands, the Igorots and Isnegs and Itnegs of the northern highlands, the Pangasinenses and Pampangos and Tagalogs of the southern lowlands. And each was divided into numerous polities and clans.

The Mindanaoan remnant is a myth. They were not directly under the rule of Spain, but they were closer to the Native American reservations than the freedom fighters we assume they are.

Look. The rivalry is there, but that was itself caused by the Spanish rule. The rivalry between the first colony Cebu and the favored colony Manila.
 
The idea of Luzon was not a thing either. There were the Ilocanos and Tingguians in the northern lowlands, the Igorots and Isnegs and Itnegs of the northern highlands, the Pangasinenses and Pampangos and Tagalogs of the southern lowlands. And each was divided into numerous polities and clans.

The Mindanaoan remnant is a myth. They were not directly under the rule of Spain, but they were closer to the Native American reservations than the freedom fighters we assume they are.

Look. The rivalry is there, but that was itself caused by the Spanish rule. The rivalry between the first colony Cebu and the favored colony Manila.

In reality majority the people of Luzon really want that the island or/and the archipelago to speak just one language and that includes non-tagalog speakers - that is why Luzon should not be a part of the Philippines.
 
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In reality majority the people of Luzon really want that the island or/and the archipelago to speak just one language and that includes non-tagalog speakers - that is why Luzon should not be a part of the Philippines.

The problem is, the formation of a nation usually has cultural supremacy involved. The French language broke the Bretons, the Basques, and the Occitans. The English language broke Scots, Welsh, and the dialects of their Midlands. Austria's courts had too many tongues, too many separate nations, kept together only by the monarchy. And it failed.

You don't seem to understand that the essence of the Philippines had Manila as the most important substrate.

And for better or worse, Manila became the Philippines. Cebu was the first, but Manila was the center. Because, unless you can get Formosa, Manila was the best port in the Archipelago, closest Spanish port to China and Japan.
 
The problem is, the formation of a nation usually has cultural supremacy involved. The French language broke the Bretons, the Basques, and the Occitans. The English language broke Scots, Welsh, and the dialects of their Midlands. Austria's courts had too many tongues, too many separate nations, kept together only by the monarchy. And it failed.

You don't seem to understand that the essence of the Philippines had Manila as the most important substrate.

And for better or worse, Manila became the Philippines. Cebu was the first, but Manila was the center. Because, unless you can get Formosa, Manila was the best port in the Archipelago, closest Spanish port to China and Japan.

If Tondo Survived the languages Tagalog or ATL Kumintang and Ilocano would be the ones that are marginalized and the people of Luzon will not bat an eyelash because the people of Luzon depend upon need each other which formed the matrix of the state centered in Tondo, if the native nobility and dynasty survived they will fight till the end.

If Tondo fought the Spanish till the end, Spain would not get Luzon nor Manila, they will be stuck in Cebu.
 
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If Tondo Survived the languages Tagalog or ATL Kumintang and Ilocano would be the ones that are marginalized and the people of Luzon will not bat an eyelash because the people of Luzon depend upon need each other which formed the matrix of the state centered in Tondo, if the native nobility and dynasty survived they will fight till the end.

If Tondo fought the Spanish till the end, Spain would not get Luzon nor Manila, they will be stuck in Cebu.

It would not matter because the Philippines that we know would not exist. If it wasn't the Tagalogs who dominated it would be another ethnic group. Because that's how nations form.

And the Spanish would not be content with Cebu. They wanted a gate to China, and they'd be damned if they let infidels keep Manila.
 
A Filipino nation without Luzon is next to impossible, IMO. Luzon, Visayas and Mindanao are too close to each other to not be influenced by their fellow neighbors (migration is pretty easy, just use a boat). It only takes one ambitious leader for them to unite into a single entity, confederated or not.

And besides, it will look really weird on the world map. :p
 
A Filipino nation without Luzon is next to impossible, IMO. Luzon, Visayas and Mindanao are too close to each other to not be influenced by their fellow neighbors (migration is pretty easy, just use a boat). It only takes one ambitious leader for them to unite into a single entity, confederated or not.

And besides, it will look really weird on the world map. :p

Were Sabah and Formosa under Spain, you'd say the same.
 
It would not matter because the Philippines that we know would not exist. If it wasn't the Tagalogs who dominated it would be another ethnic group. Because that's how nations form.

And the Spanish would not be content with Cebu. They wanted a gate to China, and they'd be damned if they let infidels keep Manila.

A Filipino nation without Luzon is next to impossible, IMO. Luzon, Visayas and Mindanao are too close to each other to not be influenced by their fellow neighbors (migration is pretty easy, just use a boat). It only takes one ambitious leader for them to unite into a single entity, confederated or not.

And besides, it will look really weird on the world map. :p

The people of Luzon only accepted being a part of the Philippines because their elite accepted it but in reality their ideals are different from the rest of the Philippines just like the Mindanao Natives, I think a part of Luzon might be conquered by the Spanish if Tondo survived and that would be less than what the Spanish did achieve in Mindanao and I think the people of Luzon if Tondo survived could resist the Spanish better than Mindanao since the Igorots and Mangyans did.


Northern Sulawesi and Ternate was also a part of the Philippines but the Spanish were EXPELLED from there.
 
The people of Luzon only accepted being a part of the Philippines because their elite accepted it but in reality their ideals are different from the rest of the Philippines just like the Mindanao Natives, I think a part of Luzon might be conquered by the Spanish if Tondo survived and that would be less than what the Spanish did achieve in Mindanao and I think the people of Luzon if Tondo survived could resist the Spanish better than Mindanao since the Igorots and Mangyans did.


Northern Sulawesi and Ternate was also a part of the Philippines but the Spanish were EXPELLED from there.

You're doing it wrong.

The elites, the leaders - they ARE the nation, they ARE their people.

Until the revolutions of the late 18th century, there is no concept of 'the people' being at all important.

The Spanish gave up the other lands because they were harassed by pirates and the Dutch. At the same time, those wars forged the idea of the Philippines. The elites, the principalia - they fought alongside the Spaniard. They crushed the local revolts (including those of the Visayans that you suppose would be the Philippines, and the Ilocanos, and the pagan priests), and they fought the Bruneians and the Dutch and the corsairs. They fought off the British too.

With that, with the Tagalog levies and officers fighting under Spain, the idea of the Philippines was raised and matured. Born in Cebu, perhaps, but almost immediately moved here to Manila.
 
You're doing it wrong.

The elites, the leaders - they ARE the nation, they ARE their people.

Until the revolutions of the late 18th century, there is no concept of 'the people' being at all important.

The Spanish gave up the other lands because they were harassed by pirates and the Dutch. At the same time, those wars forged the idea of the Philippines. The elites, the principalia - they fought alongside the Spaniard. They crushed the local revolts (including those of the Visayans that you suppose would be the Philippines, and the Ilocanos, and the pagan priests), and they fought the Bruneians and the Dutch and the corsairs. They fought off the British too.

With that, with the Tagalog levies and officers fighting under Spain, the idea of the Philippines was raised and matured. Born in Cebu, perhaps, but almost immediately moved here to Manila.

The Bruneian elite ruling Luzon became the principalia there after they have strained relations with the Bolkiahs, regarding the Elite or the Nobility, the Elite needs to have a commonality with the common people and not just an elite that was imported from another country who don't have empathy with the common people, that is what the Bruneian elite in Luzon lacked and what the Elite in Maguindanao had that is why they had the backbone against the Spanish.

This is my idea basically.
no_sacking_of_tondo_by_kazumikikuchi-d91wps2.jpg
 
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