A Better Rifle at Halloween

Some make too much of the losses to the pre war regular army. Indeed there were significant losses but also there was a steady drip of troops moved to training the New Army and promoted to newer and Territorial units. My grandfather was a pre war Regular who served all through the war as did several of his contemporaries. They disappeared from sight but were still there passing on their skills. It was not until 1917 that the army could generate enough of it’s own experienced soldiers to cease to lean on pre war Regulars. In 1915 those Regulars were still a key component in the system and in 1916 new self generating trainers were starting to come in.
This. For the British in both WW1 & 2, the expansion of their army took place during hostilities, not prior. This resulted in a massive influx of untrained manpower that had to be trained and equipped. This took time and diverted trained and experienced troops from use at the front, which was a good thing. The British also decided that their newly raised troops should, ideally, meet the same standards in tactical training, regardless of unit. No highly trained, highly trained 1st line troops backed up by more static, under-trained 'fortress' troops, which the continental armies so often utilized.
 
In WW1 (and WW2), how much food and ammunition measured in "days" was the norm to be:
1. carried by the individual soldier?
2. located in supply dumps just behind their front?

What I'm trying to grasp is the ability of an individual soldier go continue fighting once their supply lines are cut (assuming no other food resources to pillage).

Thanks in advance, Matthew.
 
In WW1 (and WW2), how much food and ammunition measured in "days" was the norm to be:
1. carried by the individual soldier?
2. located in supply dumps just behind their front?

What I'm trying to grasp is the ability of an individual soldier go continue fighting once their supply lines are cut (assuming no other food resources to pillage).

Thanks in advance, Matthew.
1. The British Army manual gives a theoretical 10 pouches of 15 rounds plus 10 in the rifle so 160 rounds. Most others seem lower , Americans were 10 pouches of 10 plus 10 in the rifle for example . Might seem a lot but would all be used up in less than 15 minutes constant fire so less than a day of combat.
2. Impossible to judge, all depends on how much has been used up in fighting or if stockpiling for an offensive has been going on. However it would be rare to be more than a few days worth in 1914 as lines have not stabilized and so dumps keep moving.
The big item for resistance is not rifle rounds however but artillery shells, they were the big killer. Given the position on the ground, its unlikely that the Germans have more than a couple of days worth since the constant barrages on Lille mean its unlikely a stockpile will have built up.
 
1. The British Army manual gives a theoretical 10 pouches of 15 rounds plus 10 in the rifle so 160 rounds. Most others seem lower , Americans were 10 pouches of 10 plus 10 in the rifle for example . Might seem a lot but would all be used up in less than 15 minutes constant fire so less than a day of combat.
2. Impossible to judge, all depends on how much has been used up in fighting or if stockpiling for an offensive has been going on. However it would be rare to be more than a few days worth in 1914 as lines have not stabilized and so dumps keep moving.
The big item for resistance is not rifle rounds however but artillery shells, they were the big killer. Given the position on the ground, its unlikely that the Germans have more than a couple of days worth since the constant barrages on Lille mean its unlikely a stockpile will have built up.
And do not forget the cloth bandolier of loaded chargers to sling around the neck as used from the South African War and by me in the 1980s. In addition to pouches.
 
With the delay to the fall of liege and the death of Kitchener there is change in British attitudes. The territorial divisions are deployed to France and Belgium, the Germans initiate something like the race to the sea earlier in an attempt to outflank the BEF. Also without the fall of Namur there is no need to fall back from the mins condee canal. So no massive retreat, British losses will be lower at this point, the Territorials have largely been used in defensive positions Although the London division led the attack on Sottegem. The wastage of professionals and Territorials seen in otl hasn’t happened yet and with better manpower management it may not happen at all. The Germans are not doing as well as they did in OTL mainly due to liege and Namur and Lille holding for longer plus the destruction of the railway node at Liege massively impacting their supply capacity.
The Germans in front of Lille do not have any heavy siege guns they are with the second army at namur, they only have the organic guns at division and corps level, they are also constrained for ammunition supply. They are supply constrained for everything, fodder is running short although they will be looting every morsel of food they can from Belgium but that will not be enough.
The British are carrying something on the order of 120 rounds per man with a further 100 rounds with the battalion transport.
 
And do not forget the cloth bandolier of loaded chargers to sling around the neck as used from the South African War and by me in the 1980s. In addition to pouches.
1. The British Army manual gives a theoretical 10 pouches of 15 rounds plus 10 in the rifle so 160 rounds. Most others seem lower , Americans were 10 pouches of 10 plus 10 in the rifle for example . Might seem a lot but would all be used up in less than 15 minutes constant fire so less than a day of combat.
2. Impossible to judge, all depends on how much has been used up in fighting or if stockpiling for an offensive has been going on. However it would be rare to be more than a few days worth in 1914 as lines have not stabilized and so dumps keep moving.
The big item for resistance is not rifle rounds however but artillery shells, they were the big killer. Given the position on the ground, its unlikely that the Germans have more than a couple of days worth since the constant barrages on Lille mean its unlikely a stockpile will have built up.
I believe American rifles ( and most other people's) took 5 rounds in a flush integral magazine, not 10 in an external removable box like the SMLE
 
This. For the British in both WW1 & 2, the expansion of their army took place during hostilities, not prior. This resulted in a massive influx of untrained manpower that had to be trained and equipped. This took time and diverted trained and experienced troops from use at the front, which was a good thing. The British also decided that their newly raised troops should, ideally, meet the same standards in tactical training, regardless of unit. No highly trained, highly trained 1st line troops backed up by more static, under-trained 'fortress' troops, which the continental armies so often utilized.
The expansion in 1914 otl was badly managed, it should have stopped men who had useful industrial skills from joining up, in fact crucial war industries lost men to the army. A slower recruitment process would have resulted in less disruption in 1914-15 without greatly reducing fighting power.
 
I believe American rifles ( and most other people's) took 5 rounds in a flush integral magazine, not 10 in an external removable box like the SMLE
The British cloth bandoliers carried 5 rounds ready in chargers in each pocket. SMLE magazines were not carried separately as reload magazines but used as fixed magazines which could take 2 x 5 rounds and normally reloaded every 5 rounds except when more were needed in a hurry. Once the first 10 had been fired off it was faster to load one 5 round charger and carry on than stop to load the full 10.
 
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The British cloth bandoliers carried 5 rounds ready in chargers in each pocket. SMLE magazines were not carried separately as reload magazines but used as fixed magazines which could take 2 x 5 rounds and normally reloaded every 5 rounds except when more were needed in a hurry. Once the first 10 had been fired off it was faster to load one 5 round charger and carry on than stop to load the full 10.
Yes I know that. I own a Lee Enfield and shoot it quite regularly. The point I was making was that American rifles only have an internal capacity of 5 rounds. unlike the SMLEs 10. I mentioned the removable nature of the SMLEs magazine merely to underline its difference from internal magazines on most other rifles.
 
If memory serves and if someone could confirm this for me did Haigh and some of the other generals recomend holding a core of regular NCOs and Officers back to aid in expanding the army but this was dismissed due to thinking that the war would not last that long.
 
Namur Defiant
15th September 1914, Namur
The fighting at Namur had almost reached the River Sambre, the Franco Belgian line had been pushed back to within 200m of the river in several places. The German army was becoming increasingly effective in its attack tactics, coupled with ever heavier artillery. Of the town itself scarcely a single house or building remained standing days of unrelenting shelling had demolished everything, but the piles of rubble and burnt out buildings provided ample cover for entrenchment. The ruin of St Aubin’s Cathedral a mound of blasted brick and stone more than 20m high was taken and retaken changing hands 5 times before the Belgians finally pushed the Germans back at the cost of almost 200 dead.

Supplies were only moving at night, the bridges over the Sambre having been destroyed by artillery fire earlier in the siege. There was one bridge to the east bank of the Meuse, it had been hit several times but remained standing all be it badly battered. Casualties had been high, the defenders having fed several divisions into the siege, receiving back shattered brigades in exchange, for the attackers it was an abattoir, a charnel house, apocalypse. Regiments went into the attack and were mown down with artillery and every where machine guns, the Belgian Lewis guns more portable than the French hotchkiss guns were seemingly everywhere. Defending a trench line or a strong point one minute then leading a swift counter attack the next.

The majority of the Belgian fortresses had mostly been silenced by this stage but their blasted concrete carcasses were just another rubble mound to defend.

Fort de Dave was still holding out, it guarded the southern flank of the East bank of the Meuse, its garrison of 350 had been reinforced by both Belgian and French troops who had dug in and prevented its capture. The heavy 21cm gun and one 12cm twin turret were still effective and had helped to prevent the Germans from clearing the river side. The heavy guns of Fort d’ Andoy had been silenced but it was still being held by the remnant of its garrison, a number of the 57mm guns still in use, like every fort which was uncaptured the defenders had been reinforced. The Fort de Maizeret had been captured, destroyed by German siege mortars and then stormed. A defensive line anchored on the ruins of Fort d’ Andoy and running back to the river was being held against numerous bloody attempts to breach it.

French and German aviators provided sterling service, spotting balloons attempted to peer into the enemies lines from both sides, providing useful artillery observation services. Their tethers and support facilities were absolute priority targets for the opposing artillery, much chaos and destruction was caused attempting to disrupt spotting.

Artillery observation was also carried out using any high points were available, playing a vital role, with many enterprising young officers going to observe and direct fire on the enemy from any and all vantage points. Many of these keen young officers paid for their courage with their lives, as shellfire and machine guns fire was frequently brought down on their observation posts. In addition a number of German soldiers had taken to sniping at anyone who showed themselves adding just a little more risk to what was already a dangerous hellscape.

The French had assembled as many heavy guns as their emphasis on the 75mm had allowed them. Some 60 of the old de bange 155mm guns had been deployed, dragged out of reserve and hurried forward they were the few guns with the range and weight of shellfire to do battle with the much more numerous German heavy guns and howitzers. Relatively Immobile they needed many hours to move and lacking any form of recuperator they moved out of battery with every shot. There was work going on to adapt them for more modern hydro-mechanical recuperators but that work would take months to bear fruit even with the frantic pace demanded for the survival of France.

Alongside the the obsolete de bange 155mm, there were also 16 of the equally elderly 120mm de bange guns. Similar in design to their heftier sisters, the 120mm gun suffered many of the same faults but could throw a round at least as far and given Frances chronic shortage of heavy artillery, they were not to be dispised.

Eight of the Schneider 105mm guns had also arrived and were adding valuable support as they had nearly as great a range as the 155 L de Bange.

As Namur held it was being further reinforced with men, guns and supplies, it was a vital crossing point and railway juncture and by holding it the Franco-Belgian forces were greatly impeding the German plans. Namur would be the rock to break the German assault.
 
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The Okhrana grows
16th September 1914, St Petersburg

Nikolai Maklakov the Minister of the Interior was in his office in St Petersburg, in front of his desk were the directors of the security stations in Moscow, St Petersburg and Warsaw, the heads in effect of the Okhrana. The Okhrana or secret police had traditionally been responsible for protecting the Tsar from revolutionary threats. There had been some attempt since the start of the war to move into counter intelligence, however this was proving to be a complex area out with the experience of the organisation, whose skills were more inclined towards double agents and agents provocateurs.
With the Minster was an unsmiling colonel from the Intelligence Corps, the Minister was just explaining that henceforth all counter intelligence tasks would be the responsibility of the Army and that the Okhrana would go back to its traditional focus on domestic sources of unrest. The death of the Tsaravich had shocked the regime and the Tsar wanted no German agents left alive in Russia, any methods desired for uncovering the traitors was approved in advance.
Maklakov had used the professed treason of Rasputin to convince the Tsar of the risks of enemy states funding terrorist and subversive groups within Russia. Any setbacks on the frontline put the entire state at peril, the Tsar had understood the risks well remembering the chaos that had sprung from defeat in the war with Japan.
To that end he had approved a tripling of the budget for the Okhrana, in additional all stations closed the previous year were to be reestablished along with new stations in Finland, Ukraine and the Baltics. The war industries were to have a special inspectorate whose sole task was to uncover any threats to production owing to subversion by foreign or domestic enemies.
In addition the Okhrana would have access to special courts established under the war powers legislation which would enable rapid trials for those accused of subversion or revolutionary crimes.
A new prison was to be built in Novy Sibirsk to house those convicted of minor charges related to subversion and agitation. For those whose crimes were more serious, execution would take place after a trial held in camera. Those condemned would be given the opportunity to repay their debt in the punishment battalions, if they told of all they knew. In addition to the new charges and courts a sweep was being conducted to transfer all of those who had broken parole and returned from exile, either to the new prison or to exile in the Russian Far East.
The Okhrana was to be further strengthened by the ability to call on the support of the both the regular police force or when required the army.
The Army would also draw on the skills of the Okhrana to help root out any defeatists who threatened morale within the armed forces with men being transferred to the Intelligence Corps for that purpose.
 
Damn the Imperial Russians really want to hurt themselves in the worst possible way and given the generally poor state of the Russian NCO, officer corps and staff officers that is going to do a lot of damage though given the general state of the Russian leadership cardre its going to be like emptying the Med with a teaspoon.
 
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Damn the Imperial Russians really want to hurt themselves in the worst possible way and given the generally poor state of the Russian NCO, officer corps and staff officers that is going to do a lot of damage though given the general state of the Russian leadership cardre its going to be like emptying the Med with a teaspoon.
It literally cannot go worse for Russia than it did between 1914 and ?. As with many authoritarian regimes the collapse comes in part due to a liberalising instinct overcoming the need to prevent revolution. The Russians are doing better without the defeat at tannenberg and with Rasputin gone. Also not all of the Russians were incompetents they just struggled with a near insurmountable set of challenges many of which are reduced ittl.
 
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It literally cannot go worse for Russia than it did between 1914 and ?. As with many authoritarian regimes the collapse comes in part due to a liberalising instinct overcoming the need to prevent revolution. The Russians are doing better without the defeat at tannenberg and with Rasputin gone. Also not all of the Russians were incompetents they just struggled with a near insurmountable set of challenges many of which are reduced ittl.
Point they did have good officers but the problem is they were generally hampered by the internal politics of the service with the various officer factions fighting each other, especially between the two big factions at the time. It also doesn't help that there was a massive investment in the wrong areas as well such as in damned old fortresses that should have been retired, as well as a under utilization of their domestic industry.
 
RNAS Requirements
16th September 1914, London

Captain Murray Sueter of the Royal Naval air Service was conducting a meeting with the directors of every major British Aircraft and Aero Engine Manufacturer. He had two days ago been the recipient of a rather brutal missive from the First Lord of the Admiralty by way of the First Sea Lord demanding to know what the RNAS was doing to halt the Zeppelin Menace, which had just caused the loss of HMS Hogue along with some 700 of her crew.
Churchill was not a proponent of the Airship and he remained unconvinced of their effectiveness, he had made some comments regarding the pace of development in the House of Commons the previous year, he had now seen the proof of the great advances the Germans had made, but his position was largely unchanged.
His note had encouraged Captain Sueter to press on with Airship development but only for reconnaissance and transport purposes, the destruction of one of the German Airships when confronted by the paltry air defence of a number of elderly armoured cruisers reinforced his belief that airships were too vulnerable to be a useful bomber against anything but undefended targets.
It was aeroplanes that Churchill wanted, more and better, faster higher flying and with bigger bomb loads. Sueter challenged each of the manufacturers to develop either individually or as consortia. Four types were to be developed, a Bomber, a fighter, a reconnaissance observation aircraft and a utility aircraft capable of carrying at least 4 passengers.
The reconnaissance observation aircraft was to have a crew of two and be fitted with a wireless transceiver and camera. It was to have a top speed of at least 90 NM/hr and with a flying endurance of at least 3 hours.The bomber aircraft with a range of at least 600 nautical miles and a bomb load of at least 20 cwt with a maximum bomb size of 5cwt. It was to have a ceiling of at least 7500 feet with a cruising speed of 80 nm/hr.Several pusher type fighting aircraft had been trialled for the RNAS prior to the start of the war, these designs would be re-evaluated for immediate deployment. A new specification was to be developed, an aircraft carrying at least one .303 machine gun, with a top speed on no less than 110 NM/hr and a range of at least 250 nautical miles with a minimum ceiling of at least 9000 feet.
When Captain Sueter asked the directors of each manufacturer what they needed they made plain their most pressing need, in every case it was more powerful engines. The current engines were at best capable of 150 to 180 horsepower, this was enough to get an aeroplane into the air but insufficient to enable it to carry a useful war fighting load.
The engine manufacturers spoke next, they addressed the challenges they faced aero engine design was a new field and they were learning much as they went along. The limits of material, lubricants and fuel all contributed to the low power output of their engines.
As part of Lloyd-Georges attempts to improve industrial efficiency and maximise manpower utilisation the Aircraft manufacturers and their affiliated partners would be given access to Government funding for research and prototyping. The caveat applied to this funding was that the results of the research would be shared amongst all the British Aircraft and Engine manufacturers. In addition, the new Ludgate Analytical Machines would be made available to them as they were manufactured, each company was to send staff to the new Ludgate Training centre in Dublin where they would undergo training on the use of the device and on its maintenance.

The other issue that of manpower utilisation was also discussed, many of the manufacturers expressed concern that they would lose workers to the Armed Forces, they were assured that the Defence of the Realm Act would be further amended to support their manpower requirements. They also wanted recruiting campaigns to support war work, so that those whose roles in industry were vital were not attacked as cowards letting others fight.
 
Lille Unbowed
16th September 1914, Lille

The guns had fallen silent the day before and already the garrison of Lille was forming up, many men had fallen in the successful defence of the city but most had survived and now they would march to harry the invaders and delay their retreat. It was unlikely that they would be able to keep up with the Germans as the advanced towards the rear but they would force them to deploy rear-guard units. Those could be tied down and delayed, perhaps captured perhaps destroyed.
Other men of the garrison would be put to work restoring as much of the city’s defences as they could within a short space of time. The repairs and strengthening of the lines would stand ready should the tide of battle turn again and Lille once again take her place in battle.
A survey was also to be conducted to assess the damage done to the city, so that repairs to its infrastructure could be affected with minimum delay. The housing of the populace had taken heavy damage as had many of the key industrial sites. Those sites particularly those of importance to the prosecution of the war would be the first to be repaired but with the return of industry would come the workforce and they would need to be housed.
 
Von Quast responds
16th September 1914, Diksmuide.

General von Quast was back in his headquarters, he had spent the morning visiting his troops as they prepared for the forced march to Audenarde. His men were already tired, they had conducted a forced march two days prior to assist the Cavalry Corps on their attack on Nieuwpoort. The leading regiment was already hallway between Diksmuide and Nieuwpoort, when they had met the shattered remnants of the cavalry streaming back from their attack.
The failure of the cavalry led to an operational pause whilst the corps concentrated before Diksmuide and planned for their own renewal of the attack on Nieuwport. The supply services used this delay so that the supply columns were able to catch up and additional supplies to be distributed before the IX Corps went on the attack.
This was to have been an attack by both divisions, to capture the town and break the tenuous link between the British, French and Belgian armies. As quickly as the plan was formulated and the troops briefed, the plan was radically altered in the face of the British offensive which had captured Ath and Sottigem, followed by General Von Klucks decision to order the retreat of his forces. Along with the remnant of the Cavalry Corps his men had the furthest to move and then would have to attack the British at Sottigem.
The road network was patchy at best and it would be hard work pushing the whole corps down a single axis of retreat. To make matters worse as his men retired the British forces holding the weak line of defence towards the coast would be able to attack into his flanks. This would necessitate the deployment of flank-guard units to delay any British response. The same problem went double for the damnable Royal Marines they were an intact highly professional force which would be able to follow his line of retreat directly unless delayed by substantial units. Further delaying his men and increasing the risk that the gap would close before he and his corps could unhinge the British and break the jaws of the trap that looked set to close on them.
His orders also would not let him do the sensible thing and order his men to retreat as quickly as they could abandoning anything that delayed them. He would need to bring the guns with him if he was to have any hope of defeating the British and they were useless without the ammunition, the ammunition meant the supply train and that needed fodder. His men had already gleaned the Belgian countryside as they attacked, and it was unlikely to yield up as much food and fodder in the retreat. Everything that his men had sweated and strained to bring to battle before Nieuwpoort would need to turn around and march back towards Sottigem, his infantry divisions would be the first to reorient for the new line of march but theirs was a relatively small undertaking it was an altogether greater challenge to move the guns and the support units into the correct positions to enable them to support the infantry in the attack.
 
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