A Better Rifle at Halloween

I'm not sure about RN airships, though I could see this being a driver for fighters with anti zeppelin guns such as the COW gun and for improved high angle mounts for light guns - I could see 47mm guns being picked to deter attack because they'd outrange the 37mm maxims, with the maxims used when directly under attack. I can't imagine a lot of hits, but if they disturb attack runs and drive the zeppelins higher that's useful.

Both is likely as at this point the RN/RAF was backing airships for fleet support roles and to try and get a good hold on what they could and could not do. I can see that being upgraded since this brings up aspects they had not considered and they also need to find ways to counter it even if the majority consider this "dumb luck" the military can't treat it as such.

The main limitation on ship based fighters is how to get them enough speed and climb rate to engage the zeppelins. Even so, the threat of interception would likely result in hastier and higher altitude attacks (as with the AA guns) so would still be useful.

Very because it's rather obvious the attack took place at a very low altitude counting on surprise at the target, I'd personally leave the hitting the moving ship in as it makes sense at the time given they don't know exactly what's going on.

Randy
 
I think what a lot of people forget about even the earliest parts of WWI was that even if you did everything right, and events went your way, you could still have your attacking units mauled, and the attack stopped in its tracks because you can't possibly get enough reinforcments in to either stop a counterattack, or widen the breech in time due to the lack of a mechanised logistics system and troop transport.

In WW2 at lest you could load men up into trucks and get them near enough the frontlines to make a difference, same with supplies. During WW1 there was a severe lack of even trucks to move supplies if i remeber right let alone troops.
Plus an attacker's communications go A over T, whereas a defender's communications may well be intact. Defender has voice control, attacker loses it.
 
Plus an attacker's communications go A over T, whereas a defender's communications may well be intact. Defender has voice control, attacker loses it.
Defenders would have had telephone lines, not just voice.
I'd also expect well planned communications trenches,designated runners, pigeons, flares, flags, but most of that's just 'sounds like they should', not knowledge.
 
RN was used to telephone communications and would have the material to make it work. There are telephone headsets all over ships even back then and they would know how to set up shore based ones.
 
Do remember that at this stage of the war, we don’t have continuous defensive lines 1914 was much more mobile than 15,16,17
Yes, I did realise that, and there is no doubt that the disparity between voice control by the defence and by the attack becomes greater as the front stabilises. I still think it will be a factor in the period of mobile war. It will of course effect both sides; the size of forces and of the the battlefield has outgrown the commander's coup d'oeil and the sound of his voice or the speed of his messengers. See John Terrain "The Smoke and the Fire"
 
Churchill in France
15th September 1914, Near Lille.
The meeting between Major General Ashton and the First Sea Lord had gone very well, Mr Churchill had praised the performance of the RMLI and how they had managed to hold the port and the junction between the French and the 3rd Army. Churchill was also telling the General about the new rifle that was being issued to some of the Territorial units and how he would see to it that the RMLI was issued with it at the first opportunity.

He had been speaking to some of the Admirals and they were keen for aggressive use of the Royal Marines and to see what could be done to tie up as many German units as possible as far from France and Belgium as they could be. The Royal Marines would be a part of that role. Once the line was secured they would return to Plymouth to be formed into a full Royal Marine Division.

Churchill then traveled by car to Dunkirk were he met with the port admiral and his British Liaison officer, the defences of Dunkirk were inspected along with a brigade of reservists who manned the same.

Churchill then travelled on to the headquarters of the commander of the Sixth Army, General Maunoury who was continuing to assemble his forces for the counter attack against the German’s besieging Lille. His men would begin their attack tomorrow, the German attacks on Lille were continuing, Von Kluck had not elected to withdraw any of his attacking units from near Lille in response to the British attack towards Jurbise and Ath, instead he was relying on the Garrison of Brussels and the detached Landwehr brigades to stop the British.

The airspace between Lille and Namur was crowded with aircraft, British both RFC and RNAS, French and German all of them trying to bring intelligence of the movement of the various armies back to their respective head quarters. Churchill was impressed with the way in which the French staff officers were integrating the intelligence received from all of their sources to provide an estimate of the forces arrayed against Lille.

A dinner was arranged and Mr Churchill dined with the French General and his staff officers speaking briefly before them he said “Britain, with it magnificent allies France and Russia will crush the Hunnish beast in its lair. The peace of Europe will not be shattered a third time to satisfy some Kaisers whim for glory. De l'audace, encore de l'audace, toujours de l'audace.”
 
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Ramontxo

Donor
15th September 1914, Near Lille.
The meeting between Major General Ashton and the First Sea Lord had gone very well, Mr Churchill had praised the performance of the RMLI and how they had managed to hold the port and the junction between the French and the 3rd Army. Churchill was also telling the General about the new rifle that was being issued to some of the Territorial units and how he would see to it that the RMLI was issued with it at the first opportunity.

He had been speaking to some of the Admirals and they were keen for aggressive use of the Royal Marines and to see what could be done to tie up as many German units as possible as far from France and Belgium as they could be. The Royal Marines would be a part of that role. Once the line was secured they would return to Plymouth to be formed into a full Royal Marine Division.

Churchill then traveled by car to Dunkirk were he met with the port admiral and his British Liaison officer, the defences of Dunkirk were inspected along with a brigade of reservists who manned the same.

Churchill then travelled on to the headquarters of the commander of the Sixth Army, General Maunoury who was continuing to assemble his forces for the counter attack against the German’s besieging Lille. His men would begin their attack tomorrow, the German attacks on Lille were continuing, Von Kluck had not elected to withdraw any of his attacking units from near Lille in response to the British attack towards Jurbise and Ath, instead he was relying on the Garrison of Brussels and the detached Landwehr brigades to stop the British.

The airspace between Lille and Namur was crowded with aircraft, British both RFC and RNAS, French and German all of them trying to bring intelligence of the movement of the various armies back to their respective head quarters. Churchill was impressed with the way in which the French staff officers were integrating the intelligence received from all of their sources to provide an estimate of the forces arrayed against Lille.

A dinner was arranged and Mr Churchill dined with the French General and his staff officers speaking briefly before them he said “Britain, with it magnificent allies France and Germany will crush the Hunnish beast in its lair. The peace of Europe will not be shattered a third time to satisfy some Kaisers whim for glory. De l'audace, encore de l'audace, toujours de l'audace.”
Err, magnificent French allies yes of course, but German? Another excellent post, thanks a lot
 
A dinner was arranged and Mr Churchill dined with the French General and his staff officers speaking briefly before them he said “Britain, with it magnificent allies France and Russia will crush the Hunnish beast in its lair. The peace of Europe will not be shattered a third time to satisfy some Kaisers whim for glory. De l'audace, encore de l'audace, toujours de l'audace.”
And in the distance a working party of soldiers sing as the march back to their billets.

 
2nd London Division Attacks
15th September 1914, Near Sottegem

The attack by the 2nd London Division was led by the 4th Brigade, they had lost the London Scottish to the Camerons and Seaforths brigade of the Highland Division. But they had gained a battalion of Territorials from the Queens Royal Regiment (West Surrey), whilst they lacked the social cachet of the London Scottish who required its members to pay a subscription, they were a competent and well lead group of men.

The attack was to be led by the 4th Brigade with the 5th Brigade following through once the first wave objectives were captured, the 6th was to provide the reserve for the division.

Waiting for the breakthrough was every armoured car and truck available within the 3rd Army area and the Yeomanry of the 1st Mounted division.

The artillery support for the London Division consisted of 3 brigades of guns equipped with the old 15 pounder, 1 brigade of howitzers with the obsolete 5” and one heavy battery of 4 4.7” guns. These were an old naval piece mounted on the so called Woolwich Carriage, this gun had a 12” stroke recuperator of limited effectiveness, some of the recoil was still transmitted back to the gun requiring it to be relaid after each shot.

The Army Service Corps and the Army Ordinance Corps had been working hard to bring forward supplies for the attack, with sufficient shells for 2 days of heavy firing brought forward from the Magazines in Britain and stockpiled for action. The had been loaded from the magazine in Woolwich onto ships which had carried them into Ghent then carried by canal and horse drawn wagon forward to the guns positions. Additional shells were also being moved for both the regular and the reserve units of Third Army.

The Third Army was facing III Reserve Corps of the First Army, the two reserve divisions were spread thin, holding a longer than ideal frontage. They had been under considerable pressure from the various British units facing them, but with every man committed to the attacks on Lille and Namur the only reinforcements coming forward had been some Landwehr units brought onward from Germany itself. These elderly soldiers trained in the long past were of limited utility and so had been put to the task of garrisoning the various Belgian towns and villages.

With such a long frontage the Germans did not have a continuous front line as such, rather they had used the many well built farmhouses as strong points tying them together with what limited barbed wire they had. The Germans had small listening posts forward of this line but these were weakly held by small numbers of troops and were intended more as a trip wire who could raise the alert than as a deterrent to the attack.

The static nature of the line had provided both sides with advantages, the Germans took advantage of the relative peace of the line to hold it lightly tying down larger numbers of British troops with only small numbers of their own.

Third Army had used its time in place to train the territorial units, infantry, gunners and yeomanry had either been in the line or training. Judicious transferring of regular officers and NCOs had taken place. Likewise Territorials had been transferred to regular battalions to learn on the job. This had caused a degree of unhappiness on all sides but General Plumer was adamant that the terriers would be brought up to standard.

Using the 2nd London Division for the attack was also determined by the strengths and weaknesses of the territorial system, their morale was excellent, the Territorials served with their battalions and regiments by choice, those in France and Belgium, had volunteered a second time for overseas service before deployment. On the other hand with only one drill night a week and an annual camp each year their training and fitness was necessarily less than that of the regulars. Going into the attack would required less military skill than the subsequent advance to contact by the follow on forces.

The fitter regular troops and the mounted division would advance through the breach in the thin German line won by the sacrifice of the Territorials. The regular artillery better equipped and trained would be more capable of providing support to their divisions, than the territorial gunners.

The attack was at dawn, all along the line held by the 3rd Army the various artillery units fired a heavy barrage at the German lines, limited aerial reconnaissance had allowed the identification of a small number of targets, a brigade headquarters, an artillery regiment and a number of supply dumps. Those received the attention of the limited number of heavy guns available, closer in the patrolling by various infantry, yeomanry and even armoured car units had identified the locations of strong points which threatened to hold up a general advance. Those positions drew the attention of the 15 and 18 pounder guns. The barrage started 30 minutes before dawn, high explosive in the main, the shrapnel shells were felt to be more useful once the attack was underway and so they were preserved.

Already only a month into the war there were grave concerns as to the stock of ammunition for the guns, the limited number of factories for shell filling were working double shifts 7 days a week. The manufacture of shells was skilled work and the lathes and mills for the manufacture of shells and fuzes were in short supply, leaving little room for easy expansion. Lloyd-George was more than aware of the challenge and he and his people were at work on a solution, but that would be in the future. For now necessity demanded a short preparatory barrage and that was what was to be fired. The guns fell silent at dawn, immediately the sounds of whistles being blown as the subalterns and company commanders of the 13th, 15th and 16th battalions of the London Regiment and the Battalion of the West Surreys advanced from the start line. As was the practice for the British army at this stage of the war the companies and platoons advanced in rushes using fire and movement tactics. Tactics learnt the hard way against the Boers in South Africa, here and there there was a scattered fusillade of fire as the listening posts were encountered and silenced.

Soon however heavier fire was heard maxim guns and larger numbers of troops firing from the strongpoint line. Casualties began to mount among the leading companies, unfortunately for the German defenders they only had a small number of machine guns and they were outnumbered 4 to one at the point of the attack. A number of the strongpoints were ill situated, positioned such that hedges or small woods screened them from their neighbours preventing mutual support. These strongpoints were the first to fall, with a number of penetrations in the strongpoint line the fifth brigade moved forward to carry on the attack whilst the 4th brigade widened the breaks in the line by attacking the strongpoints from the rear and the flanks. Soon frantic communications were on their way to corps headquarters that the British had Broken the lines.
 
von Kluck’s problem.
16th September 1914, Tournai

Colonel General von Kluck was gravely concerned, his army of four corps plus the shattered remnant of the Cavalry was threatened with envelopment. The British had captured Ath and Sottegem, thereby cutting the two main railway lines which supplied his army before Lille. To worsen his predicament aerial reconnaissance had identified a large gathering of French troops positioned to attack into the flank of his army. It seemed that in his haste to defeat the French he may have lead his army into a trap from which extraction would prove difficult.

With the loss of the double tracked lines via Ath and Sottegem his only rail line of note was a single track which ran via Renaix, this line could only carry a fraction of what he needed, a mere 2 trains an hour and with any problems the whole thing simply snarled up. That discounted the possibility of artillery ranging on the tracks and further adding to his litany of woe.

Von Kluck was already taxing the logistical capacity of the local railway network as he attacked Lille, his demand for artillery ammunition was using fully 30% of the available rolling stock, food, fodder and fuel taking up the rest. The harvest was starting to come in now which would help somewhat with food, but his men had already requisitioned most of the livestock available in this part of Belgium and little more was available. The loss of draught animals was already impacting the ability of the peasantry to bring in the harvest, this would only get worse as the logistical constraints bit down harder.

His first action was to cease the attack on Lille, his men would retire toward Courtrai and Tournai. IX and II corps would gather up the remnants of the Cavalry and retire towards Audenarde where they combine with the half of III reserve corps t was before the British penetration. With that force in hand they would attack the British forces holding Sottegem brushing them aside and attacking towards Ghent, with the intention of breaking the British line and defeating Third Army.

Whilst that attack took place III and IV corps would retire towards Ath, they would screen the flanks of First army as they retired ensuring that the French Sixth army could not get into their flank. VII corps would have to try and hold off the BEF first army as they tried to push forward from the Mons canal line towards the railway line connecting Tournai and Ath. The cavalry would be used to maintain, communications between the two retiring elements of First army.

The biggest problem would be the guns, they would have to retire at the pace that the guns could maintain, lest they be overtaken by the enemy and captured and that necessary delay. That delay combined with the fact that the British would be moving heaven and earth to reinforce their positions before Sottegem and Ath whilst also attempting to join up the two forces pocketing his troops would place his whole army at grave risk. The distance to be covered by the British in order to link up their armies was only 30km, whilst his men would need to turn around their entire force and then conduct a fighting retreat of some 50-60 Kms whilst trying to hold off 60-80,000 French troops and another 20,000 British cavalry.

It was a trying challenge to say the very least.
 
Sound fun, its not often you see this kind of fighting so early in the war, its more for mid to late war level of skills.
The prewar regular army was extremely professional. The problems came later in the war with the almost complete destruction of the regulars in otl 1914. The territorials then got equally smashed in 1915 and then the skills gap became much more apparent. Plus at this stage we still don’t have the fixed trench lines of 1915 on.
 
Some make too much of the losses to the pre war regular army. Indeed there were significant losses but also there was a steady drip of troops moved to training the New Army and promoted to newer and Territorial units. My grandfather was a pre war Regular who served all through the war as did several of his contemporaries. They disappeared from sight but were still there passing on their skills. It was not until 1917 that the army could generate enough of it’s own experienced soldiers to cease to lean on pre war Regulars. In 1915 those Regulars were still a key component in the system and in 1916 new self generating trainers were starting to come in.

Do the reservists in this thread still suffer from lost marching performance as IOTL? The Regulars could march further and faster than Territorials and Regular reservists with many falling out and being captured IOTL in retreats.
 
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