Thanks, I have been madly busy, but things have stabilised slightly so I will try to get a few more chapters out over the next few weeks. Unfortunately away from my other laptop so no maps but they will follow eventually.It lives! Great update!
A Better Rifle at Halloween
- Thread starter diesal
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- britwank rifles ww1 different
Confusion reigns
14th September, Near Nieuwpoort.
The Cavalry Corps headquarters was nearly deserted, the corps commander his deputy and the operations colonel had all joined the mad charge against the British lines. They had not returned, one of the division commanders had taken over the Corps or what was left of it and he was trying to organise a defensive position. The Infantry corps following on behind would pass through the cavalry positions and resume the attack. The infantry were 30km away and would not be in a position to attack for at least 48 hours, they would need to cite their guns and preposition ammunition for the necessary bombardment.
The corps would be crippled for months, thousands had died and even more had been wounded not to mention the loss of guns and horses.
The British artillery had managed to fire onto the horse artillery positions right at the end of the fighting, knocking out all of the guns. The same heavy gun fire had devastated the retreating cavalry, inflicting casualties nearly as great as those caused by the machine guns and rifles during the attack.
The cavalry corps medical and veterinary support was completely overwhelmed. The horse butchers had more meat than they could deal with, they needed to move it back to 1st army for distribution before it spoiled.
The Cavalry Corps headquarters was nearly deserted, the corps commander his deputy and the operations colonel had all joined the mad charge against the British lines. They had not returned, one of the division commanders had taken over the Corps or what was left of it and he was trying to organise a defensive position. The Infantry corps following on behind would pass through the cavalry positions and resume the attack. The infantry were 30km away and would not be in a position to attack for at least 48 hours, they would need to cite their guns and preposition ammunition for the necessary bombardment.
The corps would be crippled for months, thousands had died and even more had been wounded not to mention the loss of guns and horses.
The British artillery had managed to fire onto the horse artillery positions right at the end of the fighting, knocking out all of the guns. The same heavy gun fire had devastated the retreating cavalry, inflicting casualties nearly as great as those caused by the machine guns and rifles during the attack.
The cavalry corps medical and veterinary support was completely overwhelmed. The horse butchers had more meat than they could deal with, they needed to move it back to 1st army for distribution before it spoiled.
The cavalry took very heavy casualties a number of times, I included the last charge as sometimes a charge by cavalry worked in ww1, i.e. Beersheba. Appreciating that the light horse were mounted infantry and so that helped confuse the Turks. But if you are a cavalry officer and you have orders and your initial attacks have failed what to do?
No, it is based on lower level unit initiative. Which can end up looking like elan if it goes wrong. Because it can mean a commander decides to roll the dice to save a plan, or improve a plan. And if he rolls snake eyes you get a butchery like that which looks like elan.
An air raid
14th September 1914, Off Nieuwpoort
The First Lord of the Admiralty and Secretary of State for war was in Nieuwpoort, he had arrived at Harwich as HMS Fearless was completing her fueling and loading of stores prior to joining the cruisers off Nieuwpoort, Mr Churchill had informed her captain that he would be travelling back to Belgium with the ship. The captain had given up his cabin to Mr Churchill but he had spent most of the time at sea on the bridge smoking cigars and looking for all the world like a boy who had got a bicycle, a set of toy soldiers and a pony for Christmas. Churchill had confided in the captain that he needed to get away from London and see the front and that was his plan, he would visit the RMLI and Niuewport and then the 3rd Army and the Belgians. Before returning to France to visit the BEF HQ and then meet Marshal Foche. HMS Hogue had arrived slightly ahead of schedule pulling into the roads of Nieuwpoort at 6pm. Churchill was to stay aboard ship that night before going ashore in the morning. That evening the captain invited Mr Churchill to dine with him and his officers, a highly successful evening was had of it, Churchill enthralled with tales of his adventures in South Africa and on the North West frontier. He then spoke about the battle of Omdurman when he had taken part in the great charge, recalling the impact of the Maxim on the lightly armed mahdists.
Then his tone changed as he warned them that what was to come in this war would be even more shocking and bloody with two armies equipped with machine guns and quick firing artillery fighting each other, with all of the power of modern industry harnessed to the challenge of victory. Stopping himself before he destroyed the mood of the evening, Churchill then proposed a toast to the RMLI and the blue jackets ashore. The evening continued with more toasts and singing, Churchill was delighted to join the officers in singing Spanish Ladies and Rule Britannia.
The port had gone round another time when a Midshipman entered the Captains quarters, saying Mr Fraziers compliments sir and he requests your presence on the bridge. With that the party broke up, the Captain, First Lieutenant and Gunnery Lieutenant heading up to the bridge followed by Churchill. Arriving on the bridge the Captain spoke to the Officer of the Deck, “Mr Frazier what is it” “engines Sir I can hear a droning noise like an engine, it doesn’t sound like torpedo boats. The sound seems to be coming from over Nieuwport but it is getting loader. “
Have the ship go to action stations Number One and make sure both searchlights are manned. With that the evenings calm was shattered as the well drilled crew surged to their stations.
The searchlights soon snapped on, circling around the ship, they did not see anything in the sea, but they continued to probe out into the darkness in the hope of spotting the source of the unknown and increasingly loud noise. The cruisers had also gone to action stations in response to the warning from HMS Fearless, they were slipping their cables and moving off, aboard one of the other ships a searchlight flashed upward and caught a large shape in its cone. The Gunner officer noticed it and spoke to the Captain “Sir it seems to be a German Flying Machine” he then directed the search light platform to aim at it as well, the light flared brightly agains the Zeppelins hull outlining it against the sky.
The Captain ordered the gunnery officer to open fire, “all I have that will bear are two machine guns and the 1 1/2 pounders” was his reply “the range guns” was the Captains next question “looks to be at 3000 feet sir” “ it should be in range for the 1 1/2 pounders but not for the machine guns” “Open fire when you have the range and bearing guns”
With that the ships 1 1/2 pounders began to fire, the zeppelin sailed on apparently oblivious. It had lined up on HMS Hogue just before it flew over the top of the ship it seemed to leap into the air.
All the men aboard HMS Fearless watched with horror as 8 large shells each trailing a streamer as a kind of stabiliser fell towards the ship, three of the shells struck one on the bridge, one between the funnels and the third on top of the aft 9.2” gun. A fire rapidly took hold, little more than a minute after the first shell hit a massive secondary explosion tore the ship apart and she sank rapidly.
The sailors of the Royal Navy are disciplined and the Officers can rely on the Petty Officers to keep the men to their duty even in the midst of the new horror of an aerial attack on a ship at sea. The searchlights continued to probe for more airships. The Germans had not finished their work, a second and third zeppelin was soon seen approaching the ships, splitting up they set their sights on HMS Aboukir and HMS Cressy. Both ships had managed to get underway and they were heading out to sea, firing their machine guns and anything else that would bear. The Zeppelin targeting HMS Aboukir was almost amidship of her when, it released it’s bombs, in cricketing terms “they had the line but not the length”, the captain in a feat of ship handling better suited to a destroyer had her helm over immediately. The string of bombs landing short causing little more than towering plumes of water to form as each modified shell exploded on contact with the sea.
HMS Cressy was also running for the North Sea as quickly as her tired engines could push her, the Captain was zig zagging but the Zeppelin was getting closer. The Zeppelin seemed to be fixated on the armoured cruiser and was oblivious to the fact that his course was going to take him parallel to HMS Fearless at a range of no more than 500 yards. The Captain had had small arms issued to the crew on deck and they were lining the sides and the bridge wings ready to fire. The Gunnery Lieutenant was directing his machine guns and 1 1/2 pounders whilst the First Sea Lord stood on the bridge nearly quivering with excitement next to the Captain.
The Gunnery Lieutenant gave the range and elevation reminding the gunners to aim for the top of the airship and to lead it a bit to allow for the speed. Then the order came “Fire” and every weapon that could bear was firing, after a moment the captain was shocked to see that the First Lord had snatched a rifle off one of his sailors and was firing away as quickly as any other man.
Whether it was Winston Churchill, an unknown sailor, the maxim guns or the 1 1/2 pounders, there was a flash of light aboard the Zeppelin and it and its bomb-load exploded in a thunderous crash.
The First Lord of the Admiralty and Secretary of State for war was in Nieuwpoort, he had arrived at Harwich as HMS Fearless was completing her fueling and loading of stores prior to joining the cruisers off Nieuwpoort, Mr Churchill had informed her captain that he would be travelling back to Belgium with the ship. The captain had given up his cabin to Mr Churchill but he had spent most of the time at sea on the bridge smoking cigars and looking for all the world like a boy who had got a bicycle, a set of toy soldiers and a pony for Christmas. Churchill had confided in the captain that he needed to get away from London and see the front and that was his plan, he would visit the RMLI and Niuewport and then the 3rd Army and the Belgians. Before returning to France to visit the BEF HQ and then meet Marshal Foche. HMS Hogue had arrived slightly ahead of schedule pulling into the roads of Nieuwpoort at 6pm. Churchill was to stay aboard ship that night before going ashore in the morning. That evening the captain invited Mr Churchill to dine with him and his officers, a highly successful evening was had of it, Churchill enthralled with tales of his adventures in South Africa and on the North West frontier. He then spoke about the battle of Omdurman when he had taken part in the great charge, recalling the impact of the Maxim on the lightly armed mahdists.
Then his tone changed as he warned them that what was to come in this war would be even more shocking and bloody with two armies equipped with machine guns and quick firing artillery fighting each other, with all of the power of modern industry harnessed to the challenge of victory. Stopping himself before he destroyed the mood of the evening, Churchill then proposed a toast to the RMLI and the blue jackets ashore. The evening continued with more toasts and singing, Churchill was delighted to join the officers in singing Spanish Ladies and Rule Britannia.
The port had gone round another time when a Midshipman entered the Captains quarters, saying Mr Fraziers compliments sir and he requests your presence on the bridge. With that the party broke up, the Captain, First Lieutenant and Gunnery Lieutenant heading up to the bridge followed by Churchill. Arriving on the bridge the Captain spoke to the Officer of the Deck, “Mr Frazier what is it” “engines Sir I can hear a droning noise like an engine, it doesn’t sound like torpedo boats. The sound seems to be coming from over Nieuwport but it is getting loader. “
Have the ship go to action stations Number One and make sure both searchlights are manned. With that the evenings calm was shattered as the well drilled crew surged to their stations.
The searchlights soon snapped on, circling around the ship, they did not see anything in the sea, but they continued to probe out into the darkness in the hope of spotting the source of the unknown and increasingly loud noise. The cruisers had also gone to action stations in response to the warning from HMS Fearless, they were slipping their cables and moving off, aboard one of the other ships a searchlight flashed upward and caught a large shape in its cone. The Gunner officer noticed it and spoke to the Captain “Sir it seems to be a German Flying Machine” he then directed the search light platform to aim at it as well, the light flared brightly agains the Zeppelins hull outlining it against the sky.
The Captain ordered the gunnery officer to open fire, “all I have that will bear are two machine guns and the 1 1/2 pounders” was his reply “the range guns” was the Captains next question “looks to be at 3000 feet sir” “ it should be in range for the 1 1/2 pounders but not for the machine guns” “Open fire when you have the range and bearing guns”
With that the ships 1 1/2 pounders began to fire, the zeppelin sailed on apparently oblivious. It had lined up on HMS Hogue just before it flew over the top of the ship it seemed to leap into the air.
All the men aboard HMS Fearless watched with horror as 8 large shells each trailing a streamer as a kind of stabiliser fell towards the ship, three of the shells struck one on the bridge, one between the funnels and the third on top of the aft 9.2” gun. A fire rapidly took hold, little more than a minute after the first shell hit a massive secondary explosion tore the ship apart and she sank rapidly.
The sailors of the Royal Navy are disciplined and the Officers can rely on the Petty Officers to keep the men to their duty even in the midst of the new horror of an aerial attack on a ship at sea. The searchlights continued to probe for more airships. The Germans had not finished their work, a second and third zeppelin was soon seen approaching the ships, splitting up they set their sights on HMS Aboukir and HMS Cressy. Both ships had managed to get underway and they were heading out to sea, firing their machine guns and anything else that would bear. The Zeppelin targeting HMS Aboukir was almost amidship of her when, it released it’s bombs, in cricketing terms “they had the line but not the length”, the captain in a feat of ship handling better suited to a destroyer had her helm over immediately. The string of bombs landing short causing little more than towering plumes of water to form as each modified shell exploded on contact with the sea.
HMS Cressy was also running for the North Sea as quickly as her tired engines could push her, the Captain was zig zagging but the Zeppelin was getting closer. The Zeppelin seemed to be fixated on the armoured cruiser and was oblivious to the fact that his course was going to take him parallel to HMS Fearless at a range of no more than 500 yards. The Captain had had small arms issued to the crew on deck and they were lining the sides and the bridge wings ready to fire. The Gunnery Lieutenant was directing his machine guns and 1 1/2 pounders whilst the First Sea Lord stood on the bridge nearly quivering with excitement next to the Captain.
The Gunnery Lieutenant gave the range and elevation reminding the gunners to aim for the top of the airship and to lead it a bit to allow for the speed. Then the order came “Fire” and every weapon that could bear was firing, after a moment the captain was shocked to see that the First Lord had snatched a rifle off one of his sailors and was firing away as quickly as any other man.
Whether it was Winston Churchill, an unknown sailor, the maxim guns or the 1 1/2 pounders, there was a flash of light aboard the Zeppelin and it and its bomb-load exploded in a thunderous crash.
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We know full well that Churchill is going to claim that as his kill, factsbedamned.
I don't think he'd be quite that brazen, but he'd certainly let everyone know he had a big part in bringing it down. He 'd probably claim to be directing the sailors rifle fire rather than just banging away.
At least she and her reservist crew achieved something worthwhile first.
This attack probably secures the long term future of the Royal Naval Air Service. The RN was already paranoid about the dangers of air attack and now that's been proved to be valid. They'll never give up their air service now and will really push naval aviation in determination that it can never happen again.
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They'll want it to happen again all right, just to other people with them doing the happening.
Hmm, a more advanced and expansive RN airship program then, along side of the development of naval aircraft to deter and attack the Zeppelins? Maybe an earlier raid on the Zeppelin bases? (I may steal this 'scene' to add to my Crimson Skies background thankyouverymuch
)Randy
I'm not sure about RN airships, though I could see this being a driver for fighters with anti zeppelin guns such as the COW gun and for improved high angle mounts for light guns - I could see 47mm guns being picked to deter attack because they'd outrange the 37mm maxims, with the maxims used when directly under attack. I can't imagine a lot of hits, but if they disturb attack runs and drive the zeppelins higher that's useful.Hmm, a more advanced and expansive RN airship program then, along side of the development of naval aircraft to deter and attack the Zeppelins? Maybe an earlier raid on the Zeppelin bases? (I may steal this 'scene' to add to my Crimson Skies background thankyouverymuch
Randy
The main limitation on ship based fighters is how to get them enough speed and climb rate to engage the zeppelins. Even so, the threat of interception would likely result in hastier and higher altitude attacks (as with the AA guns) so would still be useful.
There are some long term implications of this attack that will shock the worlds navies.
1. A warship has been sunk by air attack.
1b. It's not a minor warship either but a large well protected Armoured Cruiser (If a little old). A ship larger and better protected than some of the older battleships still in service.
2. A sister ship of that same ship was successfully attacked while underway, only the different location of the hit saved it.
3. Existing limited anti aircraft proved insufficient for low and slow flying airships. They'll need to do much better as both heavier and lighter than air aircraft increase in performance.
1. A warship has been sunk by air attack.
1b. It's not a minor warship either but a large well protected Armoured Cruiser (If a little old). A ship larger and better protected than some of the older battleships still in service.
2. A sister ship of that same ship was successfully attacked while underway, only the different location of the hit saved it.
3. Existing limited anti aircraft proved insufficient for low and slow flying airships. They'll need to do much better as both heavier and lighter than air aircraft increase in performance.
The RN will be scrambling to fit more and better AA guns to their ships. This will see both Pom Poms and breach loading guns being developed and if Admiral Sir Percy Scot is involved then we could well see an earlier design and adoption of an AA director,
To be honest, I am a little sceptical of zeppelin’s being able to pull off this attack. For starters, AFAICT, Germany had all of 6 of them operational in September 1914 and all were based in Nordholz air base, near Cuxhaven. At the average zeppelin speed of the day (75 mph) it would take 4 hours and 10 mins to get there. If the ship arrived at 6 pm, the Germans would basically have to know it arrived immediately and have “scrambled” the zeppelins to get there while the toasts were going on. The Zeppelin’s would then need to find a pair of ships of the coast at night (not as easy as finding a city, and they struggled with that at times. Once found, it would have to drop bombs on a target that is only 472 ft long and 70 ft wide. That is a tall order for machines that often had no bombing windows, much less practical bombing sights. It is even a taller order when the target is moving.
I love the excerpt, I am just unsure if it would be realistically possibly to use zeppelins as anti-shipping bombers with anything like the level of success seen here.
I love the excerpt, I am just unsure if it would be realistically possibly to use zeppelins as anti-shipping bombers with anything like the level of success seen here.
History seen as ASB.
A known beachhead is a valid target (a bit late to co-ordinate with attacking land forces as typical). Zeppelins raided England, so Niuewport is no great stretch. Half their forces used on one raid? I'm sure they would have sent more if they could get them serviceable. The ship at the jetty is a target of opportunity with surprise. The follow up on those underway is hardly at full steam. Cuckoos and carriers to follow.
Would Churchill be deflected from his underbelly approach? Glorious, Furious and Courageous to be CAP/scout Aircraft carriers?
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