A better President of the Confederacy

Out of curiousity in OTL

By what process was Davis chosen? Were alternatives considered?


Technically speaking he was chosen by an Electoral College akin to the US one, although he started off as "temporary" President.

In reality he was pretty much appointed at the beginning. I don't know whether there was any official alternate candidates, but many names have been mentioned, in this thread already, who probably thought they could have done a better job.
 
Er...I thought it was the older men who were more willing to compromise, and when the generation born in the 1780s-1790s died out, boom, Civil War happened.
Mostly True ...

But, The Generation that Came After them was Pretty Moderate, too; it's The Usual Case of The Pendulum of Social Policies Swinging, First Back, then Forth ...

While it is Hard to Gauge them, from their Actions Post-Civil War; The Oldest Members of The Gilded Generation were Already MUCH More Accommodating, Pre-War!

:D
 
Technically speaking he was chosen by an Electoral College akin to the US one, although he started off as "temporary" President.

In reality he was pretty much appointed at the beginning. I don't know whether there was any official alternate candidates, but many names have been mentioned, in this thread already, who probably thought they could have done a better job.

By the end of the war most everyone in the Confederacy thought they could have done a better job. People that appear to have been considered at the time were Howell Cobb, Robert Toombs, and Alexander Stephens all of whom would have been less likely to loyally support gross incompetants (Bragg, Polk, Northrop, etc.) than Jefferson Davis did. Robert Barnwell Rhett probably wanted the job, and is one of the few choices I think would be worse than Davis.

Davis was not a sure thing. Toombs probably could have had the position if not for a bit of overimbibing and Stephens nearly got it, but Davis' supporters did a better job of politicking. Less likely possibilities, but not needing ASB's would be William Yancey, Christopher Memminger, and Louis Wigfall.

Best choices, IMO, but with no chance of the nomination are John Breckinridge and John Reagan.
 
By the end of the war most everyone in the Confederacy thought they could have done a better job. People that appear to have been considered at the time were Howell Cobb, Robert Toombs, and Alexander Stephens all of whom would have been less likely to loyally support gross incompetants (Bragg, Polk, Northrop, etc.) than Jefferson Davis did. Robert Barnwell Rhett probably wanted the job, and is one of the few choices I think would be worse than Davis.

Davis was not a sure thing. Toombs probably could have had the position if not for a bit of overimbibing and Stephens nearly got it, but Davis' supporters did a better job of politicking. Less likely possibilities, but not needing ASB's would be William Yancey, Christopher Memminger, and Louis Wigfall.

Best choices, IMO, but with no chance of the nomination are John Breckinridge and John Reagan.


We should do a movie on the topic...

Monty Python & the Quest for the Reb Prez...

;) :D
 
By the end of the war most everyone in the Confederacy thought they could have done a better job. People that appear to have been considered at the time were Howell Cobb, Robert Toombs, and Alexander Stephens all of whom would have been less likely to loyally support gross incompetants (Bragg, Polk, Northrop, etc.) than Jefferson Davis did. Robert Barnwell Rhett probably wanted the job, and is one of the few choices I think would be worse than Davis.

Davis was not a sure thing. Toombs probably could have had the position if not for a bit of overimbibing and Stephens nearly got it, but Davis' supporters did a better job of politicking. Less likely possibilities, but not needing ASB's would be William Yancey, Christopher Memminger, and Louis Wigfall.

Best choices, IMO, but with no chance of the nomination are John Breckinridge and John Reagan.

Beckenridge would certainly be better.
 
Pretty much. His only plan in winning the war is to keep holding on even after it was hopeless. He wanted to keep fighting after Appomattox even though Johnston, Beauregard, Lee and even Bragg said it was hopeless. To be fair I don't see what Davis could have given his diplomats to negotiate with. I agree the problems he had sticking with such losers as Bragg and even worse Hood (The worst general of the war North or South IMO) was immense.

Davis had the Israel option with King Cotton and procuring arms necessary to beat the Union.....
 
The short answer is almost anyone. Davis tried to fill his cabinet with yes-men and used them as scapegoats for failed policies. He micromanaged the war, yet never came up with a plan to win it. He appointed generals based on seniority and/or personal friendship. He sent diplomats to seek foreign recognition, yet gave them nothing to negotiate with. He often turned allies into enemies.

So he's kinda like Hitler?
 
Even with my complete lack of sympathy for the South I realize the Confederacy was a long ways from Nazi Germany. Even if the Confederacy survived the slaves would still have lived and they were treated as valuable property which is a step up from vermin that deserves to be killed.
 
Even with my complete lack of sympathy for the South I realize the Confederacy was a long ways from Nazi Germany. Even if the Confederacy survived the slaves would still have lived and they were treated as valuable property which is a step up from vermin that deserves to be killed.
Small Step ...

There are Some Things, Worse than MERE Death ....

Slavery is One of The Worst!

:eek:
 
No, that's not it at all. I was asking if Jefferson Davis was inept in many of the ways Hitler was, as far as a military leader went.

Davis main weakness as a military commander was his favoritism. Several time Davis made dicisions based on who he liked not who was best for the job, most notably in the cases of Braxton Bragg and John Bell Hood, this resulted on several good generals being underused or simply sent to a quite corner of the war to be out of Davis' way (See PGT Beauregard for further referance).

Also Davis believed that the only way to defeat the Union and gain the CSA's independance was to be offensive while allowing the Union to be to invading force...for the most art. As such even when the CSA were totally outnumbered and struggling for its life he refused to change his idea on how to war wa fought and continued to demand his commanders be offensive. To ensure this he removed Joe Johnston from command in Georgia, where he was giving Sherman the hardest challenge he had had to face the whole war, and replaced him with Hood, who subsequently lost the Atlanta Campaign with heavy casualties and destroyed his own army in Tennessee.

Davis as well was a totally deluded man. Even after Robert E. Lee and his Army of Northern Virginia had surrendered, Even after the only eastern State effectively left in the CSA's hands was North Carolina, even after Beauregard had gone to him and told him they could no longer fight he still believed that he could turn the tide of the War by heading out west and raising another army. Only when Joe Johnston came to him one day after Beauregard did and told him the War was lost did Davis agree to surrender.

Hitler on the other hand tended to undermine his commanders rather than just pick the wrong ones for the job. No situation show this more than Stalingrad when Hitler was prepared to condemn most of the German army there to death when he told its commander that retreating or surrendering was not an option.

He did however seem be to a kindred spirit to Davis in terms of how he believed a war should be run and he was always demanding his armies to be offensive. The main difference between the two in this regards is that Hitler would allow a defensive campaign to be fought but if it was the Army and its commanders engaged in that campaign must fight to the death and never let the enemy advance a single inch into German territory.

Hitler too was a deluded man and believed that he could still turn the tide of his war even as the Allies were crossing the German borders and heading to Berlin. He continued to belive this until Berlin itself began to crumble arround him.

Another similarity between Hitler and Davis is that neither would admit that they had done anything wrong and blamed every problem their countries faced on traitorous subordinated and incompetitant generals. They never once believe that they had been one of the main causes of the defeat of the CSA or Nazi Germany.
 
Small Step ...

There are Some Things, Worse than MERE Death ....

Slavery is One of The Worst!

:eek:
History seems to suggest the opposite as reletively few slaves killed themselves which would be the case if they thought they were better off dead. Even if you assume slavery is a fate worse then death the Nazis were still worse as the Confederates didn't starve their slaves to death, they were worth far too much money to do that.
 
Since the South had the Slaves. What did all the white-trash they do?

Secondly wasn't the South a Dictatorship?


To your second question the South was no more a dictatorship than the North.

To your first it is as offensive to a Southerner to call him White Trash as it is to call a Black man a certian word that starts with N.
 

Hapsburg

Banned
It was probably somewhat better then West European and somewhat worse then the Northern states.
Arguably, anti-Semitism was stronger in the North. IIRC, Grant made a special order to arrest or at least evict any Jew within his army's sight. Whereas neither the Confederacy nor its Army made provisions or orders against Jews. OTOH, on could argue that they couldn't afford to do so in a war for independence.

Secondly wasn't the South a Dictatorship?
No. If anything, it was less a dictatorship than the North due to its confederated and decentralised central government. It had no more ability to be a dictatorship than the US under the Articles of Confederation.
 
No. If anything, it was less a dictatorship than the North due to its confederated and decentralised central government. It had no more ability to be a dictatorship than the US under the Articles of Confederation.

Decentralized?

The Davis adminstration drafted state militia members who should have been exempt from the national draft. They instituted internal passports. They dictated rates to the railroads and required blockage runners to devote a certain percent (1/3 IIRC) of cargo space to government cargos free of charge. They instituted income taxes and the draft (which covered men aged 17 to 50). It authorized the execution and enslavement of certain Union POWs. Richmond was under martial law from March 1, 1862 andcivilian firearms were confiscated by the government. Price controls were imposed. It impressed cotton, horses, food, and slaves and when it paid, paid far below market rates. It avoided labor unrest by drafting the workers. It dictated allowed rates of proft for business. By 1863 'the Richmond government employed more civil servants than its counterpart in Washington'.
 
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